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Thread: Need help from the ZenZone!

  1. #1

    Default Need help from the ZenZone!

    There is an AIDS presentation at my college this coming Monday. Supercoolmancool found out about it and brought up the idea of going there to give them the ZenZone point of view on the subject. We are planning on filming it. It should be funny since we will come well prepared and probably nobody there has ever questioned that HIV causes AIDS so they will not be able to answer the questions very easily.

    I'm just looking for any links or information on the subject, preferably from respectable sources and scientists. We want to cite reputable sources so they can't just write it off and BS since it's from an unreliable internet source or something.

  2. #2

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    All of the links that you need may be found here. zg

  3. #3
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    Lets see,you google HIV and get 74,000,000 hits.
    google HIV doesn't cause Aids and you get 1.
    I'm convinced.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by shadroch View Post
    Lets see,you google HIV and get 74,000,000 hits.
    google HIV doesn't cause Aids and you get 1.
    I'm convinced.
    ZG's link is only searching this website. You get lots more if you search them all.

    Results of about 75,300 for "HIV causes AIDS".

    Results of about 30,700 for "HIV does not cause AIDS".

  5. #5
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    these days you have to use parameters when googling, use the +,- "" and, or, date, etc...you can use them all in one search and eliminate allot of undesirables and find out more on google tutorial. then search videos on google and utube. another thing do a +ucla for example or +medical journal, or +harvard medical and you will get better scientific sources.
    Last edited by zenzan; April 19th, 2007 at 10:04 AM.

  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by shadroch View Post
    Lets see,you google HIV and get 74,000,000 hits.
    google HIV doesn't cause Aids and you get 1.
    I'm convinced.
    That's because noone has ever questioned that HIV causes AIDS. Go ask any highschool student what causes AIDS. They will tell you HIV. Then ask them why they think so. They will have no idea, they read it in a text book. They heard it from a teacher. They don't really "know" what causes AIDS, they just heard it from someone else.

    I used to be the same way. I took that HIV causes AIDS as a fact because it was in texts and presentations and there was never another viewpoint even mentioned with it. I just believed HIV caused AIDS because someone told me it did, but do I really know whether or not that is true? No.

    I bet it's the same with you. You think HIV causes AIDS I assume from your response. So... how do you know? Can you prove it? If you can't prove that HIV is the sole cause of AIDS, shouldn't other theories be looked at as well, rather than putting all the eggs in one basket? What if it turns out HIV doesn't cause AIDS, then we wasted a ton of money and time for nothing.

    I'm not saying that HIV doesn't cause AIDS. But I do have reason to believe that there is a decent chance that it doesn't. It would make perfect sense that we dont have a cure, since we may not even be dealing with the correct cause. So I think that other ideas should be tested along with the HIV hypothesis.We don't have anything to lose by it, I don't think there has been any progress with HIV...

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by shadroch View Post
    Lets see,you google HIV and get 74,000,000 hits.
    google HIV doesn't cause Aids and you get 1.
    I'm convinced.
    Also, if you search HIV doesnt cause AIDS you'll get a lot more responses than that. The search that had only 2 responses was "HIV does not cause AIDS zengrifter".

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by ScottH View Post
    Also, if you search HIV doesnt cause AIDS you'll get a lot more responses than that. The search that had only 2 responses was "HIV does not cause AIDS zengrifter".
    Within those two threads are all the links you need. zg

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScottH View Post
    That's because noone has ever questioned that HIV causes AIDS. Go ask any highschool student what causes AIDS. They will tell you HIV. Then ask them why they think so. They will have no idea, they read it in a text book. They heard it from a teacher. They don't really "know" what causes AIDS, they just heard it from someone else.

    I used to be the same way. I took that HIV causes AIDS as a fact because it was in texts and presentations and there was never another viewpoint even mentioned with it. I just believed HIV caused AIDS because someone told me it did, but do I really know whether or not that is true? No.

    I bet it's the same with you. You think HIV causes AIDS I assume from your response. So... how do you know? Can you prove it? If you can't prove that HIV is the sole cause of AIDS, shouldn't other theories be looked at as well, rather than putting all the eggs in one basket? What if it turns out HIV doesn't cause AIDS, then we wasted a ton of money and time for nothing.

    I'm not saying that HIV doesn't cause AIDS. But I do have reason to believe that there is a decent chance that it doesn't. It would make perfect sense that we dont have a cure, since we may not even be dealing with the correct cause. So I think that other ideas should be tested along with the HIV hypothesis.We don't have anything to lose by it, I don't think there has been any progress with HIV...

    Actually,the reason I think HIV causes AIDS is because when the AIDS epidemic erupted,it was researched by hundreds,if not thousands of some of the best medical detectives on the planet and that was the conclusion that they came up with.After examining all the various possibilities,they eliminated them one by one until HIV remained.From what I understand,and I'll admit that I understand little of it,viruses and retro-viruses are extremely difficult to cure.Polio being an exception,but that was after a massive crusade due to FDR.
    What gives you the impression that no other idea was tasted before they decided on HIV being the cause?

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by shadroch View Post
    Actually,the reason I think HIV causes AIDS is because when the AIDS epidemic erupted,it was researched by hundreds,if not thousands of some of the best medical detectives on the planet and that was the conclusion that they came up with.After examining all the various possibilities,they eliminated them one by one until HIV remained.From what I understand,and I'll admit that I understand little of it,viruses and retro-viruses are extremely difficult to cure.Polio being an exception,but that was after a massive crusade due to FDR.
    What gives you the impression that no other idea was tasted before they decided on HIV being the cause?
    It was researched by thousands, yes, but has anyone ever proven that HIV causes AIDS? I don't think they have. If I am wrong please link to the proof.

  11. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by ScottH View Post
    It was researched by thousands, yes, but has anyone ever proven that HIV causes AIDS?
    I don't think they have. If I am wrong please link to the proof.
    Quote Originally Posted by shadroch View Post
    Lets see,you google HIV and get 74,000,000 hits.
    google HIV doesn't cause Aids and you get 1.
    I'm convinced.
    Maybe you are too easily convinced. zg

    HIV Does Not Cause AIDS!
    http://www.mercola.com/2001/sep/5/hiv_aids.htm
    http://ourcivilisation.com/aids/not/index.htm
    http://www.duesberg.com/papers/ch2.html
    http://www.sierratimes.com/03/07/29/blanton.htm
    The HIV-AIDS debate
    http://www.theperthgroup.com/

    Rethinking AIDS
    http://www.rethinkaids.com/RaArchive/backissues.html

    AIDS reappraisal
    From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AIDS_reappraisal
    Does HIV cause AIDS?
    http://pages.prodigy.net/johnhunter2/hivaids.htm
    THE BIG LIE ABOUT AIDS
    http://www.virusmyth.net/aids/data/gnlie.htm
    THE HIV DISBELIEVERS
    http://www.virusmyth.net/aids/news/nwintervcm.htm

    T h e J o d y W e l l s M e m o r i a l P r i z e
    MISSING VIRUS!
    £ 1000 Reward

    HERE - http://www.virusmyth.net/aids/award.htm

    The Huw Christie Memorial Prize:
    $100,000 Reward for 'HIV'
    Offered by Alexander Russell 19th July 2002

    HERE - http://www.altheal.org/isolation/prize.htm

    "The most formidable barrier to the advancement of science is the conventional wisdom of the dominant group."
    -- Conrad Hal Waddington, Embryologist & Geneticist (1905-1975).


    "If there is evidence that HIV causes AIDS, there should be scientific documents which either singly or collectively demonstrate that fact, at least with a high probability. There is no such document."
    -- Dr. Kary Mullis, Biochemist, 1993 Nobel Prize for Chemistry.


    "Up to today there is actually no single scientifically really convincing evidence for the existence of HIV. Not even once such a retrovirus has been isolated and purified by the methods of classical virology."
    -- Dr. Heinz Ludwig Sänger, Emeritus Professor of Molecular Biology and Virology, Max-Planck-Institutes for Biochemy, München.

    THE GROUP

    The Group for the Scientific Reappraisal of the HIV-AIDS Hypothesis came into existence as a group of signatories of an open letter to the scientific community. The letter (dated June 6, 1991) has been submitted to the editors of Nature, Science, The Lancet and The New England Journal of Medicine. All have refused to publish it. In 1995 The Group was able to get a letter published in Science.

    You can also sign the statement below online.

    To the editor:

    It is widely believed by the general public that a retrovirus called HIV causes the group diseases called AIDS. Many biochemical scientists now question this hypothesis. We propose that a thorough reappraisal of the existing evidence for and against this hypothesis be conducted by a suitable independent group. We further propose that critical epidemiological studies be devised and undertaken.

    Signatories:
    Charles A. Thomas, Jr. Ph.D. (Mol. Biologist, Pres. Helicon Fnd., San Diego, CA)
    Harvey Bialy, Ph.D. (Editor Bio/Technology, New York, NY)
    Harry Rubin, D.V.M. (Prof. Cell Biology, Univ. Cal. Berkeley, CA)
    Richard C. Strohman, Ph.D. (Prof. Cell Biology, Univ. Cal. Berkeley, CA)
    Phillip E. Johnson (Prof. Law, Univ. Cal. Berkeley, CA)
    Gordon J. Edlin, Ph.D. (Prof. Biochem. & Physics, Univ. Hawaii, HI)
    Beverly E. Griffin, Ph.D. (Dir. Dept. Virology, Royal Postgrad. Med. School, London, UK)
    Robert S. Root-Bernstein (Prof. Physiology, Michigan State Univ., East Lansing, MI)
    Gordon Stewart, M.D. (Emeritus Prof. Public Health, Epidemiologist, Isle of Wight, UK)
    Carlos Sonnenschein, M.D. (Tufts Univ., Medicine, Boston, MA)
    Richard L. Pitter, Ph.D. (Dessert Research Inst., Univ. Nevada System, Reno NV)
    Nathaniel S. Lehrman, M.D. (Psychiatrist, Roslyn, NY)
    John Lauritsen (Author 'Poison by Prescription', New York, NY)
    William Holub, Ph.D. (Biochemist, Live Sciences Inst. New York, NY)
    Claudia Holub, Ph.D. (Biochemist, Live Sciences Inst. New York, NY)
    Frank R. Buianouckas Ph.D. (Prof. Mathematics, Cuny, Bronx, NY)
    Philip Rosen, Ph.D. (Prof. Physics, Univ. Mass. Amherst, MA)
    Steven Jonas, M.D. (Prof. Preventive Medicine, Suny Stony Brook, NY)
    Bernard K. Forscher, Ph.D (Ret. Editor Proc. Nat. Acad. Sci., Santa Fe, NM)
    Kary B. Mullis, Ph.D. (Biochemist, PCR inventor, Consultant, La Jolla, CA.)
    Jeffrey A. Fisher, M.D. (Pathologist, Mendham, NJ)
    Hansueli Albonico, M.D. (General Practitioner, Langnau, Switzerland)
    Robert Hoffman, Ph.D. (Prof. Dept. Pediatrics Univ. Cal. Med. School, San Diego, CA)
    Timothy H. Hand, Ph.D. (Dept. Psychology, Oglethorpe Univ. Atlanta, GA)
    Eleni Eleopulos, M.D. (Royal Perth Hospital, Perth, West Australia)
    Robert W. Maver, F.S.A., M.A.A. (Dir. Research, Mutual Benefit Life, Kansas City, MO)
    Ken N. Matsumura, M.D. (Chairman Alin Foundation & Research Inst., Berkeley, CA.)
    David T. Berner, M.D. (Condon, MT)
    Theodor Wieland, Ph.D. (Max Planck Institut, Heidelberg, Germany)
    Joan Shenton, M.A. (Meditel, London, UK)
    John Anthony Morris, Ph.D. (Biochemist, Bell of Atari College Park, MD)
    Sungchul Ji, Ph.D. (Prof. Pharmacology & Toxicology, Rutgers Univ., Piscataway, NJ)

    ...more - http://www.virusmyth.net/aids/group.htm

    More quotes from experts -
    http://www.virusmyth.net/aids/controversy.htm
    Last edited by zengrifter; April 19th, 2007 at 02:42 PM.

  12. #12
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    Interesting article thread ZG. This topic fascinates me as I hope you are right here as you very well could be. In your opinion, what does cause AIDS? I hope that it isn't a virus, otherwise we are SOL.

  13. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by MEDITANK View Post
    Interesting article thread ZG. This topic fascinates me as I hope you are right here as you very well could be. In your opinion, what does cause AIDS? I hope that it isn't a virus, otherwise we are SOL.
    There was a really good video about it, but it doesn't appear to be working now. It went over why they didn't think HIV caused AIDS, as well as listing what they thought were the causes.

    http://www.zenzoneforum.com/showthre...highlight=aids

  14. #14

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    Here's two, one with my friend Paula -
    Is "Aids" a Fraud?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HOj6B4Hsg1Q


    and another -
    The Greatest Medical Hoax of our Time

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a5K1KdxoZwc

  15. #15
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    Was this settled yet?

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