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Thread: Discuss science, politics, philosophy, conspiracy theories, or whatever

  1. #1
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    Default Discuss science, politics, philosophy, conspiracy theories, or whatever

    what it all boils down to when considering the topics posted in the Zen Zone and for that matter the internet and other forms of media. the crucial point is what most of us were taught as early as elementary school.

    the importance of CRITICAL THINKING!
    best regards,
    mr fr0g MMOA honorary predator
    STRENGTH - HONOR - HEART
    that's my take on it your mileage may vary.
    for senior citizen fuzzy count click link:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DrTiP4ZIUfI

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    Critical thinking
    From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Critical thinking is an on-going concern with the problems inherent in human thinking. It leads to the historical art of analyzing and evaluating thinking with a view to improving it. It includes, but is not exhausted by the mental process of analyzing or evaluating information, particularly statements or propositions that people have offered as true. It includes, but is not limited to, a process of reflecting upon the meaning of statements, examining the offered evidence and reasoning, and forming judgments about the facts.

    Critical thinkers can gather such information from reflection, observation, experience, reasoning, and/or reading, writing, speaking and listening. Critical thinking has its basis in intellectual criteria that go beyond subject-matter divisions and which include: clarity, accuracy, precision, relevance, depth, breadth, logic, significance, fairness.

    Contentshttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Critical_Thinking

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    maya
    best regards,
    mr fr0g MMOA honorary predator
    STRENGTH - HONOR - HEART
    that's my take on it your mileage may vary.
    for senior citizen fuzzy count click link:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DrTiP4ZIUfI

  4. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by sagefr0g View Post
    maya!
    Thats what my critical thinking tells me! zg

    Maya (illusion)
    From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Maya
    (Sanskrit माया [1] ), in Hinduism, is a term describing many things. Maya is the phenomenal world of separate objects and people, which creates for some the illusion that it is the only reality. For the mystics this manifestation is real, but it is a fleeting reality; it is a mistake, although a natural one, to believe that maya represents a fundamental reality. Each person, each physical object, from the perspective of eternity is like a brief, disturbed drop of water from an unbounded ocean. The goal of enlightenment is to understand this —more precisely, to experience this: to see intuitively that the distinction between the self and the universe is a false dichotomy. The distinction between consciousness and physical matter, between mind and body (refer bodymind), is the result of an unenlightened perspective.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maya_%28illusion%29

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    Quote:
    Originally Posted by sagefr0g View Post
    maya!

    Quote Originally Posted by zengrifter View Post
    Thats what my critical thinking tells me! zg

    Maya (illusion)
    From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Maya
    (Sanskrit माया [1] ), in Hinduism, is a term describing many things. Maya is the phenomenal world of separate objects and people, which creates for some the illusion that it is the only reality. For the mystics this manifestation is real, but it is a fleeting reality; it is a mistake, although a natural one, to believe that maya represents a fundamental reality. Each person, each physical object, from the perspective of eternity is like a brief, disturbed drop of water from an unbounded ocean. The goal of enlightenment is to understand this —more precisely, to experience this: to see intuitively that the distinction between the self and the universe is a false dichotomy. The distinction between consciousness and physical matter, between mind and body (refer bodymind), is the result of an unenlightened perspective.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maya_%28illusion%29
    i'm not certain but i doubt maya will ever go away. but truth will never go away. thats why critical thinking is crucial. it is at least (even if in vain) an attempt to get at what is true. what is ironic is that maya is apparently part and parcel of what is true or at least maya gives perspective with respect to what is true
    best regards,
    mr fr0g MMOA honorary predator
    STRENGTH - HONOR - HEART
    that's my take on it your mileage may vary.
    for senior citizen fuzzy count click link:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DrTiP4ZIUfI

  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by sagefr0g View Post
    i'm not certain but i doubt maya will ever go away. but truth will never go away. thats why critical thinking is crucial. it is at least (even if in vain) an attempt to get at what is true. what is ironic is that maya is apparently part and parcel of what is true or at least maya gives perspective with respect to what is true
    Thats where THINKING, critical or otherwise, breaks down - thinking and thought can never arrive at TRUTH because the thinker (ie, the independent self-sense, or ego) is an illusion, inseperable from the Maya. And as such you are misidentified with the mind and thought, and such mind is desperate to survive even in the face of its non-existent foundation. zg

    ------------
    EXCERPT FROM
    The Power Of Now by Eckhart Tolle

    What is the greatest obstacle to experiencing this reality?

    Identification with your mind, which causes thought to become compulsive. Not to be able to stop thinking is a dreadful affliction, but we don't realize this because almost everybody is suffering from it, so it is considered normal. This incessant mental noise prevents you from finding that realm of inner stillness that is inseparable from Being. It also creates a false mind-made self that casts a shadow of fear and suffering. We will look at all that in more detail later.

    The philosopher Descartes believed that he had found the most fundamental truth when he made his famous statement: "I think, therefore I am." He had, in fact, given expression to the most basic error: to equate thinking with Being and identity with thinking. The compulsive thinker, which means almost everyone, lives in a state of apparent separateness, in an insanely complex world of continuous problems and conflict, a world that reflects the ever-increasing fragmentation of the mind. Enlightenment is a state of wholeness, of being "at one" and therefore at peace. At one with life in its manifested aspect, the world, as well as with your deepest self and life unmanifested - at one with Being. Enlightenment is not only the end of suffering and of continuous conflict within and without, but also the end of the dreadful enslavement to incessant thinking. What an incredible liberation this is!

    Identification with your mind creates an opaque screen of concepts, labels, images, words, judgments, and definitions that blocks all true relationship. It comes between you and yourself, between you and your fellow man and woman, between you and nature, between you and God. It is this screen of thought that creates the illusion of separateness, the illusion that there is you and a totally separate "other." You then forget the essential fact that, underneath the level of physical appearances and separate forms, you are one with all that is. By "forget," I mean that you can no longer feel this oneness as self-evident reality. You may believe it to be true, but you no longer know it to be true. A belief may be comforting. Only through your own experience, however, does it become liberating.

    Thinking has become a disease. Disease happens when things get out of balance. For example, there is nothing wrong with cells dividing and multiplying in the body, but when this process continues in disregard of the total organism, cells proliferate and we have disease.

    The mind is a superb instrument if used rightly. Used wrongly, however, it becomes very destructive. To put it more accurately, it is not so much that you use your mind wrongly - you usually don't use it at all. It uses you. This is the disease. You believe that you are your mind. This is the delusion. The instrument has taken you over.

    I don't quite agree. It is true that I do a lot of aimless thinking, like most people, but I can still choose to use my mind to get and accomplish things, and I do that all the time.

    Just because you can solve a crossword puzzle or build an atom bomb doesn't mean that you use your mind. Just as dogs love to chew bones, the mind loves to get its teeth into problems. That's why it does crossword puzzles and builds atom bombs. You have no interest in either. Let me ask you this: can you be free of your mind whenever you want to? Have you found the "off" button?

    ----end excerpt-----------

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    Quote Originally Posted by zengrifter View Post
    Thats where THINKING, critical or otherwise, breaks down - thinking and thought can never arrive at TRUTH because the thinker (ie, the independent self-sense, or ego) is an illusion, inseperable from the Maya. And as such you are misidentified with the mind and thought, and such mind is desperate to survive even in the face of its non-existent foundation. zg
    pretty much have to agree. the point about the importance of employing critical thinking however is two fold. it entails an ambition to know truth and it holds the potential to recognize what is not true or at least what probably should be doubted.
    the question with regard to spiritiual enlightenment seems mute to me. i believe we have that upon conception and that at that instant world or maya works on us to destroy it. hence it's cast upon us to fend for ourselves and one another.
    Last edited by sagefr0g; April 1st, 2007 at 10:44 AM.
    best regards,
    mr fr0g MMOA honorary predator
    STRENGTH - HONOR - HEART
    that's my take on it your mileage may vary.
    for senior citizen fuzzy count click link:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DrTiP4ZIUfI

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by sagefr0g View Post
    enlightenment ...i believe we have that upon conception and that at that instant world or maya works on us to destroy it.
    Agreed. zg

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    Quote Originally Posted by zengrifter View Post
    Agreed. zg
    Last edited by zengrifter; March 30th, 2014 at 10:20 PM.
    best regards,
    mr fr0g MMOA honorary predator
    STRENGTH - HONOR - HEART
    that's my take on it your mileage may vary.
    for senior citizen fuzzy count click link:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DrTiP4ZIUfI

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by sagefr0g View Post
    what it all boils down to when considering the topics posted in the Zen Zone and for that matter the internet and other forms of media. the crucial point is what most of us were taught as early as elementary school.

    the importance of CRITICAL THINKING!
    Especially critical at Zzone!
    "The dogs bark but the caravan moves on."
    .....................The Zengrifter Interview (PDF) |
    The Zengrifter / James Grosjean Reputation Debate
    -----------------------------------------
    “Truth, like gold, is obtained not by growth, but by washing away all that is not gold.” — Leo Tolstoy........
    "Is everything a conspiracy? No, just the important stuff." ZG

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