+ Reply to Thread
Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 16 to 30 of 58

Thread: The Beast 666 Universal Human Control System

  1. #16

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ScottH View Post
    I'll take my chances...

    God promises eternal life, but the devil promises women, money, fast cars, etc. Which one am I going to choose... ah the dilema!
    Ya... we got one! -MephastophelesGrifter (pray for me brother FGK42!)
    Last edited by zengrifter; February 1st, 2007 at 01:16 AM.

  2. #17

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FGK42 View Post
    Once again a paradox

    The talk of 666 and mark of the devil, etc... comes from the Revelation of John on the Isle of Patmos.

    It is steeped with alagory and warnings and open to many interpretations, the keys to understanding Revelation are all present in the books of Daniel and other old Testament books.

    Your miscomprehension of monotheistic underpinnings just reveal you true nature - since you have already sided with the Beast why be worried about "serious shit going down"? It's amazing how people cherry pick what they want to "believe". When the directions are plain and clear you reject it as fraud and propaganda but latch onto numberology and other sci-fi stories.

    If you think government tracking and ID chips is serious imagine eternity in Hell

    Now THAT's serious shit. You've been warned

    I like how you believe in the Bible/God/Hell, but don't believe everything that Zengrifter posts. You're a paradox. What are your reasons for not believing in Unicorns? What are your reasons for beliveing in God? Are they in conflict? Are you cherry picking? Can you rationalize your belief in God and disbelif in Unicorns?

  3. #18

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by supercoolmancool View Post
    I like how you believe in the Bible/God/Hell, but don't believe everything that Zengrifter posts. You're a paradox. What are your reasons for not believing in Unicorns? What are your reasons for beliveing in God? Are they in conflict? Are you cherry picking? Can you rationalize your belief in God and disbelif in Unicorns?
    Ok here goes:

    1. I didn't say or post MY beliefs in God, Satan, The Bible, etc...YOU made assumptions about me and my posts - go back and check.

    2. Unicorns - Where did THAT come from?

    3. What are MY reasons for believing in God. Simple. It's about SCIENCE. Read the first and second Law of Thermodynamics. Once you read that, and understand it, come talk to me.

    4. I deal in FACTS and reliable sources. ZG is a funny guy who makes lots of assumptions. It is funny to see him jump up and down, contradict himself and generally lead the sheep astray.

    5. There are truths, half-truths and lies. Once you understand the difference, come talk to me

    6. Since you're in college take a logic course will you? When you present your arguement (or use case if you prefer - I was on the debate team) any information that is used as reference material needs to hold up under cross examination. Most of ZG's cases DO NOT.

    For example when you state that you do not believe in The Bible you can not therefore go to the Book of Revelation, choose The Beast, The Prophet or The Anticrist and discuss that/those characters because by logic you have dismissed their existence when you choose to ignore the authors who penned these characters.

    Since this is a BJ Site let me put it another way. BJ by it's very nature is a negative EV game. Statistically you will only win 44% of the time, even when using perfect BS. Certain things can be done to reduce the house edge, choosing the right game, counting, etc. But no matter how you slice it the GAME of BJ is a negative EV game.

    Now if your name is Cypher you can say, hey I've created a magic potion that when you rub it on your forehead and sit at a computer screen and play BJ it becomes a positve EV game! All you have to do is play according to the rules I've discovered, etc, etc, yadda yadda yadda...

    We know that is untrue because you can't change a fundamental truth. Are there certain things you can do to get an edge? YES! But you can't change the truism that BJ is a negative EV game.

    The truth is the truth. In fact there is no right and no wrong, just consequences to your actions. I was merely pointing out the discrepancy in ZG's posts. Instead of trying to actually look at my argument you are doing what is typically done in modern politics, change the arguement away from facts and attack the messenger. Fine, say what you want about me but you haven't changed the facts of what I've said!

  4. #19

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FGK42 View Post
    6. Since you're in college take a logic course will you? When you present your arguement (or use case if you prefer - I was on the debate team) any information that is used as reference material needs to hold up under cross examination. Most of ZG's cases DO NOT.
    I've taken a course in logic. I'd love for you to make your argument for the existence of god. Please make it valid and fallacy free, I've pretty much heard them all. Oh, and supercoolmancool does know how to make arguments, but the burden of proof is on the believer, so go ahead please. I eagerly await this proof, it may change my life!

  5. #20

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FGK42 View Post
    Since this is a BJ Site let me put it another way. BJ by it's very nature is a negative EV game. Statistically you will only win 44% of the time, even when using perfect BS. Certain things can be done to reduce the house edge, choosing the right game, counting, etc. But no matter how you slice it the GAME of BJ is a negative EV game.
    BJ by nature is not +EV or -EV. It depends on how you play it. Since you are at this blackjack site, you should take a look around and know that not only can you reduce the house edge, you can tilt the odds in your favor and make BJ a +EV game. The way I slice it, it is a +EV game.

  6. #21

    Default

    As far as your arguement goes, Zengrifter has stated that he doesn't believe everything that he posts. So yah there are paradoxes but he admits it. Or, since he doesn't believe everything, he shows everything and not just that stuff that fits in with what he believes and thus not paradox.
    Last edited by supercoolmancool; February 2nd, 2007 at 12:28 PM.

  7. #22

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by supercoolmancool View Post
    As far as your arguement goes, Zengrifter has stated that he doesn't believe everything that he posts. So yah there are paradoxes but he admits it. Or, since he doesn't believe everything, he shows everything and not just that stuff that fits in with what he believes and thus not paradox.
    Excellent point - Now you're thinking logically.

    Most people only post things that agree with their viewpoint as it is self-validating. I'm guilty of that on occassion.

    To post opposing viewpoints is a good admirable quality because when both sides of an argument are presented it make one able to make an informed decision based on FACTS and not innuendo's

    The paradox occurs when one presents a case based upon a premise that one has already dismissed.

    Using your unicorns for example.

    I do not believe in unicorns. Why? I have not seen them, nor have I seen evidence for their existence. Did they once exist? Possibly but for the sake of this example let me re-iterate: I do not believe in Unicorns.

    Now if I post a story in a few days about how scientists are using new DNA implantation techniques to implant a horse with Unicorn DNA found in amber reside from the Amazon forest where Unicorns were said to have lived. It could just be a post. The paradox lies when I begin to state how neat it will be to see the unicorn or about how this will lead to world chaos, etc.. Because my basic premis was - there are no Unicorns. Therefore anything that I state that is contrary to the original premise is a falsehood and invalidates my arguments.

    Not only is this basic logic but it is the basis for testimony in a court of law. If a witness is found to contradict themselves at any time, then ALL their testimony is thrown out.

    PS How you read the 1st and 2nd Law of Thermodynamics yet and UNDERSTOOD what it means?

  8. #23

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FGK42 View Post
    Excellent point - Now you're thinking logically.

    I do not believe in unicorns. Why? I have not seen them, nor have I seen evidence for their existence. Did they once exist? Possibly but for the sake of this example let me re-iterate: I do not believe in Unicorns.
    Here is my proof that you are a paradox:

    If FGK42 hasn't seen something, and FGK42 hasn't seen evidence for their existence, then FGK42 doesn't believe it.

    FGK42 hasn't seen God or evidence for his existence, therefore he doesn't believe in God.

    Obviously you claim that the 2nd law of thermodynamics is evidence for God. However, you are commiting a fallacy of a false dilemma. You say nothing can be created or destroyed so everything must have always existed, but that is something neither I nor science can understand so it must be God. Thus God exists. When in reality there are other choices. Just because we don't understand someting doesn't mean it is God. Also lots of laws of physics have been shown over time to be false or to need tweeking ie. all of classical physics/newton's laws.

    Personally, I can't rationalize belief in God because I haven't seen him or seen evidence for him. Same goes with Santa Clause and the Tooth Fairy. I mean I'll read some crazy Zengrifter post and be like, "NO way that can't be real. I don't believe that." Then i'll ask myself why I don't believe. To answer that I need to define how I decide what I believe in and then I ask why I believe in God and there is conflict and I can't say I don't believe in tooth fairies and that I do believe in God without paradox.
    Last edited by supercoolmancool; February 2nd, 2007 at 01:19 PM.

  9. #24

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by supercoolmancool View Post
    Here is my proof that you are a paradox:

    If FGK42 hasn't seen something, and FGK42 hasn't seen evidence for their existence, then FGK42 doesn't believe it.
    WRONG conclusion.

    Your logic is CLOSE for If A and B then C.

    THAT'S not what I said.

    Have I seen God - NO

    Have I seen evidence that God exists - Of course we all have.

    Example

    Have I seen the wind - no you can't see the wind

    Have I seen evidence that it exists? Yes - I live where there are hurricaines, etc.

    There is no paradox

  10. #25

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FGK42 View Post
    WRONG conclusion.

    Your logic is CLOSE for If A and B then C.

    THAT'S not what I said.

    Have I seen God - NO
    Well would you like to? Are you preparred to discover that "the kingdom of heaven is within" and that you are not seperate from it?

    To paraphrase the Living Adept, Adi Da, in reality, there is Only God. That is, that there is only a single, Indivisible, All-Pervading, Self-Existing and Self-Radiant "Source-Condition", "Nature", and "Substance" that is Reality, in and of which everything and everyone arises as a spontaneous and unnecessary modification. And therefore by implication, YOU ARE IT! zg

    See - 'Coventional Monotheism vs. TRUE SPIRITUALITY
    http://www.zenzoneforum.com/showthread.php?t=4838
    Last edited by zengrifter; February 2nd, 2007 at 03:53 PM.

  11. #26

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by supercoolmancool View Post
    Obviously you claim that the 2nd law of thermodynamics is evidence for God. However, you are commiting a fallacy of a false dilemma. You say nothing can be created or destroyed so everything must have always existed, but that is something neither I nor science can understand so it must be God. Thus God exists. When in reality there are other choices. Just because we don't understand someting doesn't mean it is God. Also lots of laws of physics have been shown over time to be false or to need tweeking ie. all of classical physics/newton's laws.
    Grade: F

    The first Law of Thermodynamics states that matter is neither created or destroyed.

    The second Law of Thermodynamics deals with entropy - in laymans terms it describes how over time particles go from a state of order to disorder.

    Or even simplier for you: Hot frying pans cool down, rocks roll downhill and not uphill.

    Matter goes from complex states/forms to more simplier states.

    Do the 1st or 2nd Law of Thermodynamics prove or disprove the existance of God? No. They point you in that direction simply because of their underlying principles.

    For example take a swiss watch and disassemble it. Place all the pieces into a shoebox and shake for (x minutes/hours/days/years/millenia) until all the pieces come together and you have a Swiss Watch. Aint gonna happen.

    Now take the same Swiss Watch, assembled, place into the box and shake the same duration as above. Eventually some pieces will become dislodges or broken as per the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics.

    What is the difference? Creative intelligence. There is a design behind one and destruction behind the other.

    Quote Originally Posted by Supercoolman
    Personally, I can't rationalize belief in God because I haven't seen him or seen evidence for him. Same goes with Santa Clause and the Tooth Fairy. I mean I'll read some crazy Zengrifter post and be like, "NO way that can't be real. I don't believe that." Then i'll ask myself why I don't believe. To answer that I need to define how I decide what I believe in and then I ask why I believe in God and there is conflict and I can't say I don't believe in tooth fairies and that I do believe in God without paradox.
    There is sooooooo much evidence for a God. You simply choose NOT to believe. Will I present that evidence for you? No. Why? several reasons:

    1. I am not really qualified for apologetics - there are much more gifted men and women on the subject
    2. It is a personal quest/journey if you will. The finding/discovery is not just the final destination it is the learning along the path that enlightens us
    3. Nothing FGK42 says, writes or does will convice you of the presence/absence of God. If and when you, the student, choose to be receptive, then the master will appear.
    4. If you want a really good short, quick read about the search for God I would recommend More Than a Carpenter. It is a 60-70 page, paper booklet written by a lawyer, Josh McDowell. He was a non-believer for many many years. Then he was challenged by a believer about his disbelief. Josh then decided to use his skills as a lawyer to finally prove that God didn't exist....

    Taste and see.....

    The whole issue is this - we should never close doors/burn bridges until we are 100% sure of our decision. ZG is 100% sure of certain belief's - it is evident in his writing.

    You are too young to be that certain. For a good fictional read I might also suggest a series of paperback books called, Left Behind. There are 12 books to the series, each 250-350 pages long. Light material. All fictional I might add. It describes a world in which there is a God and Satan and ...well look it up.

  12. #27

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FGK42 View Post
    4. If you want a really good short, quick read about the search for God I would recommend More Than a Carpenter. It is a 60-70 page, paper booklet written by a lawyer, Josh McDowell. He was a non-believer for many many years. Then he was challenged by a believer about his disbelief. Josh then decided to use his skills as a lawyer to finally prove that God didn't exist....

    ...You are too young to be that certain. For a good fictional read I might also suggest a series of paperback books called, Left Behind. There are 12 books to the series, each 250-350 pages long. Light material. All fictional I might add. It describes a world in which there is a God and Satan and ...well look it up.
    Oh please, spare the recommended church basement-babble-claptrap books to support your backwater beleif mythology! Why don't YOU read something enlightening like Eckhart Tolle's The Power of Now. zg

    CLICK FOR REVIEW
    @
    What Is Enlightenment Magazine


    EXCERPT FROM REVIEW
    The more I read of The Power of Now, the more I was convinced that in Eckhart Tolle's teachings we had stumbled upon a genuine and profound expression of the nondual realization, a rare pearl in the shallow tidepools of new millennium spirituality. Indeed, in a time when the teachings of Advaita Vedanta—the ancient Hindu doctrine of nonduality expressed exquisitely in the last century by Ramana Maharshi and others. Tolle's book shines with authenticity, a welcome addition to a spiritual climate grown rife with reductionism. Thankfully, he refuses to use the subtle and profound teachings of nonduality to whitewash the darker sides of human nature or pretend that the human ego is simply an illusion that we need not concern ourselves with. Instead, his call to awakening contains within it an honest appraisal of the reality of the human condition. Referring to the "collective egoic mind" as the most "dangerously insane and destructive entity ever to inhabit this planet," he speaks at great length about the negative and inevitable consequences inflicted on both ourselves and others when we are unable or unwilling to surrender ourselves to the liberating
    power of "the Now."

    Last edited by zengrifter; February 2nd, 2007 at 06:20 PM.

  13. #28

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FGK42 View Post
    Grade: F
    When you get your masters degree in math and physics, come talk to me.

    When you get your masters degree in Philosophy, come talk to me.

    Yeah, you like to try make people think you are smart and they are dumb because they don't know some science theory? Puhlease!

    By saying things like "after x, come talk to me", or "even simpler for you" must make you feel pretty high and mighty, but nobody cares how many physics classes you took.

    You say we've all seen evidence that God exists, BULLSHIT! I havn't seen ANYTHING convincing to show me god exists. I've only heard stories. Oh wait, some person was cured of cancer, a miracle by God! Oh wait, most poeple DONT get saved from their cancer, most of them die. Weird. Whenever something good happens that is against the odds, it is the work of God. And when something bad happens, well, "God works in mysterious ways". Doesn't a good theory need to be falsifiable Mr. Science? Well, with the theory of God, everything, whether it be good or bad can be explained by the all-powerful work of God. Ha!

  14. #29

    Default

    You said that the laws of thermodynamics don't prove but point in the direction of God. There you go agian with false dilemmas. I mean it points in the direction of a lot of things like there are 100's of religions/gods for instance. I mean are you cherry picking what you believe now. Why do you believe in the Christian God? You sure made a big leap there. But really this is an arguement that is impossible for you to win because since there is no proof it all comes down to faith which is rediculous in my book. I mean why do you have faith? You are so skeptical most of the time. If you looked at this through the eyes of a rational adult, I can't understand the conclusion to become a Christian. Run it through the same tests as you would run your belief in unicorns and they should both be dismissed.
    Last edited by supercoolmancool; February 3rd, 2007 at 01:20 AM.

  15. #30

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by supercoolmancool View Post
    You said that the laws of thermodynamics don't prove but point in the direction of God. There you go agian with false dilemmas. I mean it points in the direction of a lot of things like there are 100's of religions/gods for instance. I mean are you cherry picking what you believe now. Why do you believe in the Christian God? You sure made a big leap there. But really this is an arguement that is impossible for you to win because since there is no proof it all comes down to faith which is rediculous in my book. I mean why do you have faith? You are so skeptical most of the time. If you looked at this through the eyes of a rational adult, I can't understand the conclusion to become a Christian. Run it through the same tests as you would run your belief in unicorns and they should both be dismissed.
    The Bible Prophecy 'dispensationalist' argument can be somewhat compelling because so many apparent prophecies are coming to pass. It almost had me.

    But once again, the Christian Prophecy hounds fail to acknowledge or even recognize that many if not most religions from Hindu to Hopi have similar sweeping predictions.

    The only thing that would really set Bible Prophecy apart would be the emphasis and timing on Israel. But the secular state of Israel was potentially a fraud perpetrated by connivers, and the Bible doesn't differentiate between Israel, the Jews, and Israel, the Zionist secular state.

    In the final analysis, if you believe, as I do, that some "serious sh*t" is going down. Its better to keep adjusting your own assessment of it then to faith-blindly embrace the Bible, and its totally corrupted message.

    The Christian supporters here seem to have little respect for the Koran, and I see them about the same, except maybe the Koran wasn't as manipulated and corrupted.

    zg

    Ps- More of the same -

    -------------------

    Iran Prepares For Appearance Of Apocalyptic Islamic 'Mahdi'


    © 2007 WorldNetDaily.com

    2-3-7
    Official Iranian radio has completed broadcasting a lengthy series on the imminent appearance of a messianic figure who will defeat Islam's enemies and impose Islamic Shiite rule over the entire world * even speculating on specific dates the so-called "Mahdi" will be revealed.

    English-language transcripts of "The World Toward Illumination" programs can be found on the website of IRIB, a public broadcast arm of Tehran.
    "Be joyous my heart, miracles of the Messiah will soon be here," reads a poem used to conclude the first broadcast. "The scent of breaths of the One we know comes from near. Grieve not of sorrow and melancholy, as assured I was last night that a Savior will come, it's clear." After the coming of the 12th imam, or Mahdi, "liberal democratic civilization" will be found only in "history museums," explained the program.

    "Contrary to the views of western theoreticians, who usually depict an ambiguous and dark future for mankind, Muslim experts believe human history, despite its many ups and downs, has a very auspicious fate," explained the program. "Muslims believe hopes for the realization of such a happy ending for the world are called 'Awaiting Redemption,' and means waiting for man's problems to be solved by the Savior at the end of time. This awaiting influences many, and inspired them with activity and enthusiasm in confronting darkness and oppression for changing the existing situation. "
    This messianic figure will be a direct descendant of Muhammad, according to the broadcasts.

    ...more - http://rense.com/general75/mahd.htm
    Last edited by zengrifter; February 3rd, 2007 at 11:49 PM.

+ Reply to Thread

Similar Threads

  1. Mark of the Beast Microchipping?
    By adt_33 in forum ZenZone General Discussion
    Replies: 14
    Last Post: February 17th, 2017, 02:03 PM
  2. Universal Health Care
    By aslan in forum ZenZone General Discussion
    Replies: 20
    Last Post: December 14th, 2009, 01:07 AM
  3. Get Rid of The Fed And Purge The System
    By zengrifter in forum ZenZone General Discussion
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: May 17th, 2009, 04:31 PM
  4. A New Monetary System—Now!
    By zengrifter in forum ZenZone General Discussion
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: June 9th, 2007, 08:11 PM
  5. Hack Your Nervous System
    By zengrifter in forum ZenZone General Discussion
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: February 16th, 2006, 01:08 AM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts