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Thread: Bosox Forum Detective

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    Default Bosox Forum Detective

    Bosox writes: Moses, just to be clear on this, almost EVERYONE wanted you out as you clearly earned the reputation that you always openly display on ZZ. For the record I do not blame you in any way as that is the type of person that you are, and I do not think you even realize it yourself. So it is hard to blame you for what is clearly not seen through your own eyes. Although, I hold a strong blame for the individual who is running the show over there whom "who I will not name as he does not participate here" is just clearly exploiting you for his own amusement, disguised as standing up for free speach. He is one evil son of a bitch, and I am not affraid to say it. This guy is an active member on BJ Info site where I just left after finding out he runs the ZZ show. I want no part openly discussing blackjack topics with an individual who is really sick in the head.

    Bosox. I can't figure out who all these puppets are that come and go. Therefore, all I can do is focus on me. IF someone is coming after me? I'm not backing down and, more than likely, coming back with extensive force. Simply put, that is the way of the jungle. Never, in my life, have I encountered a scenario where one can say whatever they wish without accountability. Say it, then run and hide. However, you seem to know all the inside players and multiple puppets. So why don't you stand up, be a man, and tell the truth about who is who? I'm not suggesting exposing someone to casinos. I'm saying to identify the handle here is also ______ at BJTF and ____ at Blackjackinfo and ________ at VCT. You need to define EVERYONE. BJTF always this pulled this crap. Their "legions" were mostly puppets. So who was it and how did you know? Some kind of underground network? Was it Mickey, Singer, Bob21, Monet, Axel, JBJB? I know it was you and KJ. IF it was EVERYONE then why didn't they complain when you and KJ made endless and KJ continued to start thread about me when I couldn't respond? Ironic, seems just about EVERYONE wants to kick KJs ass now.

    Just like in this post you've painted a picture with a very broad brush. I have no idea who Zengrifter is and really don't care. He might be Flash or Bob21 for all I know. But Zen Zone gives me a platform to respond to others who continue to address me on other forums where I can't respond. The name Moses practically carried VCT for a month after being banned. 21Forme had me on ignore at BJTF but then had plenty to say after I couldn't respond which is why I started posting more at Zen Zone in the first place. None of this would even exist if KJ simply backed up his words. He will not voluntarily, so the only alternative is to pursue the option where he doesn't have a choice. If not, things will only get worse, not just for me, but all who compete in the game of blackjack and post on forums.

    Norm came right out a said KJ is monstrous liar. Since you seem to know all the insiders, then you know Norm and his puppets as well. Have we met? Frank Galvin and BigJer are the only players I've met personally to my knowledge. You words suggest you know me personally. You seem to think you know how much I bet on games, my level of play at the tables, where I live, my income, net worth etc, etc. ALL of which is false rendered by KJ who claims he got that info from someone at BJTF and/or the cyber police. My guess is 21Forme is the one feeding him false info. So either you've got the wrong guy or are making it up?

    IF you care about the truth then I suggest you contact Frank Galvin. He did not see me place a sportsbet and I did play red chip that night because that is all that casino offers. Plus I considered myself to be on a social visit as opposed to my daily routine. We went to that casino because it is closest to my house. It is not part of my route. Maybe Frank forgot he contacted me, came to my home, and we visited for hours about blackjack. Went to dinner at Bullies with my lady friend who also lives with me, and out to a casino. Maybe BigJer forgot that he contacted me. But he later confirmed on his forum. We met at Atlantis. I bought him lunch. A cheeseburger (I think) and got him a free drink (7 & 7, I think) as went to see Tater about free coupon. They met and shook hands and we visited for awhile in the back of the sports book. Then BigJer and I went to another table and chatted. He mentioned being a team player for a BJTF guy from Vegas and talked about trip successful venture to North Carolina. He'd just been 86ed at a casino downtown for playing a 1 to 5 spread with red chips and deep pen. It didn't surprise me because I'd already experienced the same treatment.

    For some reason, Frank ask me not mention our meeting which seemed a little odd to me. I've tried to honor his wish. But damn Frank, don't you think it's time you spoke up?

    While I'm on it. Yes, I called Norm directly on Sunday morning after he banned me. And yes, I was furious, hollering at the top of my lungs. So he kept hanging up on me and I kept calling back, maybe 3 or 4 times. He stopped answering so I dropped it. Why was I so pissed? Because Flash threatened me with T3 coming to Reno to kick my ass on the forum. I responded. Norm deleted Flash's post but left mine. So it appeared as I was the one who instigated the trouble.

    Flash has since been banned which proves my point. I also emailed T3 directly. I didn't want to be walking around Reno looking over my shoulder for some stranger coming up to me. It was alleged T3 had taken on biker gangs all by himself. Flash was sending a blanket email to members of BJTF. I'm not sure how he got that information which is why I called Norm. But I AM certain I never gave Flash permission to give my email to others. So, I got T3's actual name and email from that list. I did some research to find out more about him. Then, I wrote him. It's always been my contention that it is better to run to a fight as opposed to from a fight. Therefore, I informed T3 I was coming to his city and his place of work. T3 spoke of all his friends and relatives in the FBI and law enforcement. From that, I figured he wasn't a biker gang ass kicker and not coming to Reno. That pretty much ended it. We may have discussed blackjack by email once or twice since.

    However, IF it was his and/or Norm's intention to involve the FBI? Then I wanted to know what the hell Flash was doing with all this private email information. Norm, claimed he never met Flash or T3 which I thought was odd because they represented over 20K posts and seem to be a close knit group. Flash spoke in his email about the years he'd known Norm personally and the other things he did for income. Norm said it was all false. I didn't care one way or another. FWIW, I'd always liked Norm and wouldn't want to do his job. However, no question T3 and Flash were teachers pet and running the show at the time.

    So let me ask you Bosox. Someone or a group of someones has your email, your name, your phone number, and been to your house, been on your computer to install some kind of a drop box. A member of this group is a biker gang ass kicker and is coming to your city to kick your ass. What would you do? I know, you'd go to the police. I didn't think about that option and believe they would've look at me as though I was off my rocker if I did. I went to the top dog which appeared to be T3. I figured if were are going to fight? Let's get it over with.

    In this city, I had a guy want to fight me because he thought I was standing to close to him while in a line to get a free beer and hot dog. It was a normal distance and close quarters. But he'd just got out of prison, was hungry, and the others he'd ask were rude to him. So he profiled me as someone who'd also say no. This is an example of everyday life here in the jungle. Eat or be eatin. One must be proactive. See trouble coming and don't get caught in the middle.

    My strength or weakness, depending on ones point of view, is to help those who get caught in the middle and can't defend themselves. You are either a target, sitting duck, or someone seeking targets and sitting ducks. I have a hard time looking or walking the other way when that happens. So I've learned to put myself in the position to not see it, or be it, in the first place. Avoid the noise so to speak.

    LC Larry writes to Bosox: Dude, create an account over there and respond there. Keep the BS over there and not here. Some of you are just as looney.

    So you think it is my intention to keep this going? Wrong! I missed the UNR upset over Purdue last night. I had tickets and had been planning to go all summer. We rarely get to see a team from a major conference. Why did I miss the game? Because I'm always working on this KJ shit of repeated lies.

    I simply want it to end. For that to happen, someone needs to step up and tell the truth. Is that man going to be Bosox? Well, he IS the forum detective. I think it's pretty clear I won't give up until the truth comes out.
    Last edited by Moses; August 31st, 2019 at 04:06 PM.

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    Bosox. I've pretty much forgotten all that Norm stuff. My game is exactly where I want it to be. I'm a little disappointed that it took so long to it get to this point. However, if you can't trust the man, how can you trust his products? I remember sitting in a sales meeting years ago. A savvy old guy said the key to success is, first you have to get people to trust you. Then, once they trust you, it helps if they like you. Then, if they trust and like you, they might buy from you. It seems Norm has compromised both considerably. But he is running a tame forum today. I rarely open a thread to read.

    The T3 way is to profit by adding more. My way is to play as efficiently as possible by elimination without sacrificing money. Hence, focus on the advantages – don't sweat the thresholds. BJTF is all about thresholds. Primarily because of Zee's endless supply of Hee Haw questions. Also, don't bet into thresholds when it means drawing unwanted attention.

    I got a couple of good ideas from T3. But I never understood how he is able to identify strong deck compositions breaking down to one, maybe two numbers, and a deck estimate. Seems to me like blowing into trumpet and getting guitar, piano, and drum sounds to come out. How is that possible?

    I understand what Tarzan is doing. His advantage works because of how he is able to read the cards. For instance, a conventional count index generation suggests standing on 16vs10 in a positive deck. However, there are times when it's better to hit. Same thing with say a 13vs3 and many more. A conventional count might indicate a large or max bet is in order. He would see a deck composition rich in 10s might also be rich in 6-9s and delay his bet for a hand or two while the middle cards catch up.

    Don't try to reinvent the wheel is the mantra as BJTF. If the casinos change the rules and shorten pen then player has to adjust his game. THAT is exactly what has happened since all those books were written and Griffin's work was done. Just like in basketball, the college game changed when they put in the shot clock and the 3 point shot. Dean Smith, a hall of famer, was a pioneer of the 4 corners offense. That offensive strategy rarely works today. Lew Alcindor and Bill Walton might not be quite as dominant in today's college game because the offense was designed around their skill set.

    Late hit?
    I had stopped posting and reading forums for several days. But I was told KJ and 21Forme were at it again. I'm not hiding and not hard to find. KJ is hiding and dang hard to find. I haven't even started on 21Forme...yet. He may well be Norm. There would be no need for, what wimps consider, threats if they weren't making up lies and always popping off.

    Someday I will jump in my car and go find KJ. My cost of living accommodations in Vegas would no more than it is here. So I can stay as long as necessary. IF history repeats? Help will come out of nowhere. He has made hundreds of enemies on these forums. It just takes one to point me in the right direction.

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    How do you move a mountain? Moses, how do you move a mountain?

    One shovel at a time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Moses View Post
    How do you move a mountain? Moses, how do you move a mountain?

    One shovel at a time.
    Bosox writes to Zee:
    All of which begs the question, when if ever will all those repeated questions finally become a permanent fixation in your brain? Some responders get the feeling that you often ignore what you are told is the right play and let your instincts direct you.


    I've never understood why the coach who hollered this question to me was so emotional. Now, I realize he was saying that if you start, help will come.

    The problem is Zee is NOT shoveling. He is standing at the foot of the mountain hollering for help because HE doesn't believe he can move it so he isn't going to try. His unwillingness to put advice to action is an indication he does not believe the mountain can be moved.

    Discernment and paranoia have completely opposite meaning but quite often appear to be one in the same. The former is a gift from God. Something I didn't even know I had it until the proverbial fork in the road of life sort of forced the decision to turn to Him for help. Paranoia is His adversary who can get you to see something that isn't real - but you think his real - or believe something that is real that is not real.

    Zee is clearly on the side of paranoia. His questions are only making it worse for him and probably others. I suppose it's admirable that others, like you, do their best to try to help him. But in a sense, while your intentions are good, the attempt is crippling him even more and perhaps others as well.

    I've had players like this when I was coaching. They'd come in my office and ask “why did you cut me? I'm a lot better player than so and so who you kept.” My answer was “I don't need players who are willing to accept riding the pine. So and so will ride the pine, but by the time I put him in, he will have learned and then be a far better player than you are now or ever will be. You're not a bad player and not a bad person. You're just lazy and believe your entitled to play simply because you tried out for the team. We can't win with lazy/entitlement minded players, especially when it starts to spread.”

    Why? Because there is a point in the game where the fans are screaming, it seems the officials calls are going against you, and exhaustion sets it. Don't bend over and grab your shorts because it shows your weak. But know, your opposition is experiencing the same emotion. The one who Doesn't lose their head ends up being the winner.

    Zee is not a bad person and not a bad player. He is just lazy and believes he is entitled to an answer to every question simply because he joined a forum. THAT is what drives his paranoia. IF you don't put in some effort to find you own answers? You will be grabbing your shorts in the real game.

    Freighter and Tarzan are not lazy and that is a big part of what drives them to success.
    Last edited by Moses; September 6th, 2019 at 03:37 PM.

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    Monet writes: You ever wonder why Fund Managers can't beat the S & P 500? Because they're sheep. And sheep get slaughtered.

    Excellent post Monet: I always look at the tenure of a fund manager.
    I wouldn't consider a fund if they haven't been at the helm long enough to experience a down market.

    Give me the guys that are poor, smart, and hungry.

    The Eye of the Tiger.


    And NO feelings!

    KJ provides only the words of a queer pussy. I suppose Dan Druff needs him to sustain a constant stream of his nonsense posts.

    And if you NEED a FRIEND? Get a dog. It's Trench Warfare out there pal.

    Yes, James Taylor probably didn't gamble. This is about WINNING. KJ, Tasha, and a few others have ruined forums by turning them into a congeniality contest.

    I will give credit when it's due. Bosox did an admirable job of making a stand at BJTF. But you were up against what they call "home town" referee's and "home field" advantage.

    I never once heard Tarzan complain about shuffle machines or variance.

    Deech writes:

    For the love of God, why does the wife leave me home on Saturday nights?

    Bosox writes. Uh-Oh

    The best advice I've ever received in my life was "go find your own fun." I'm damn good at it too. I wish I would have heard these words 30 years ago.

    Last edited by Moses; September 21st, 2019 at 08:09 PM.

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    Bosox. I'm impressed with your valiant effort to defend your queer friend at BJTF. You are going to lose. But still give a great performance.

    Norm writes: The biggest mistake of my life was ever starting a forum.

    Question: So why continue? I mean Ive made some whopper mistakes in my life. But my biggest? No way am I repeating that one.

    Is it because the money is so good? Do you just like people? Hmmm, I don't think so scooter. Is it for power? Is it to control people to a cult mentality? I mean, Norm you're living the "biggest" mistake of your life over and over again on a daily basis. Why? Life is short.

    And they say I'm crazy.


    Norm writes: Now does anyone have anything to say about blackjack?


    Why in the world would anyone have anything to say about blackjack on a blackjack site? KJ, Flash, 21Forme, and others turn them into congeniality contests. That's like going into a sports book and expecting to watch some games. Far too much shit going on for that.
    Last edited by Moses; September 22nd, 2019 at 12:44 PM.

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    21 Forme writes:

    Not at all. The math of the game has been figured out and settled decades ago.

    ...Perfect timing. This is why no one talks about blackjack. Because you get standard answers from assholes like this.

    First of all, the game has changed considerably over the decades. Secondly, the technology used was pale in comparison to today's.

    Norm says himself, in his 345 page book, that he doesn't figure "money management" to be a significant consideration. Hell, the entire game is about money management.

    So, to answer the Newbie's question. IF you're playing at a table with others, then hell yes, you'd want to stick to basic strategy or the old conventional methods of counting. IF not, you'll catch a bunch of crap and lose your ass...FAST.

    However, if you playing straight up in a pitch game, you've made some valid points. But don't expect answers at BJTF. THAT would be talking about blackjack and 21Forme hates it when that happens.

    There are no secrets in how to play the game.

    You're kidding right? There are so many secrets to this game. Why lie? Bosox, let's say I'm the house and every time you get 16 in a single deck straight up game I give you an Ace and you stand on 17. Not such a good deal. No? Now, reverse roles. Every time I get a 16, I stand and you let me start my next hand with an Ace. I'll take it.

    My point is, not all the math has been considered. We just accept 21Forme shoving it up our asses because he talks tough. Fuck that! Challenge him, and he'll stick his head

    in the sand every damn time.


    Last edited by Moses; September 22nd, 2019 at 12:43 PM.

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    Waves writes to Bosox:

    Ultimately, it's your money, so how you play is none of my business. But, I will have to agree to disagree with your, or anyone else's, anecdotal evidence on any topic.

    Don't get me wrong, sim's are great for long time consideration of hands one will never play in their lifetime. However, there are flaws. For example, if the deck is exhausted of Aces the sim still makes a large bet. No one in their right mind would ever do this. Also, if you're playing straight up, the logs still finish the dealers hand even though the player has already busted. This throws a lot out of whack with regard to pen and the next hand. So you HAVE to play and consider short term results because no one has yet invent the consideration of the deck as a whole. Only one hand at a time which isn't necessarily the best way to play the pitch game.

    Also, sim results will reflect that SCORE authored by Don S and BC, PE authored by Peter Griffin are two completely different animals. No one can seem to explain why Griffin placed such a high value on the two. It certainly isn't reflected in SCORE for pitch games.

    Last edited by Moses; September 22nd, 2019 at 01:58 PM.

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    Default Bosox gets a nickel at BJTF?

    LMAO. So Bosox won a 5 day supper at BJTF. According to Midplayer. Near as I could tell Bosox was giving shit to the one of the biggest shit givers at BJTF.

    So The Refinery ran to the teacher. C'mon T Ref. Stop being such a pussy.

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    Zee writes:
    T3 had his own count that he never divulged, also often did not claim it had better results but that it cut down variance substantially. I still don’t know if it was the guy who played single deck and used basketball or macho analogies or the other guy who got so obsessed with got so obsessed with Norm for not banning T3 and other stuff that he started threads about this forum and it’s owner elsewhere.

    I wouldn't play shoes with Don S money. IF I had Don S money, I'd burn mine and wouldn't play blackjack at all. So, I do not know if tags assigned to various cards other than HiLo matter or not in shoe games. Freighter seems to have the most logical approach I've read.

    But in pitch games, it's not a matter of 8 to 15% difference in SCORE on sims. It's about the difference between winning and losing vs being allowed to play and getting 86ed. Pro vs Rec player is forum rhetoric. It comes down to money. In blackjack, it's eat or be eatin.

    Bosox writes; Thanks, guys, at least it was for a noble cause standing up for ZeeBabar " who is really not serious into the game itself" but often takes a lot of shit, however I still think he is a good guy.

    Well said Bosox. There should be more like you to stand up against the 21Forme and T Ref's at BJTF. It's clear asking the "tough" questions will not fly at BJTF. Many have tried, many have failed. So don't let it get you down. Norm owns all the marbles and the curb is in front of his house.

    However, Zee is nuttier than squirrel turds and most of what he writes is an act.
    Last edited by Moses; October 1st, 2019 at 03:59 PM.

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    Don S writes:
    People don't READ. The OP #1 mentioned someone who repeatedly pushed Hi-Opt II on the group and criticized anyone who used a "lesser" count. If you're a regular reader of the forum, then you know that was ZenMasterFlash and not Three.

    Don

    True. But T3 didn't like HiLO. According to T3 one had to memorized 500 indices and play each on perfectly. I thought Don S did a good job back then of separating fact from fiction. Ironic, all those posts and Freighter summarized it best with fart jokes and his Wong Halves as the most viable solution.

    Midwest player writes: I thought it was about Three because the OP indicated nearly 10,000 posts and I didn't think ZenMasterFlash had that many. I believe Three was also critical of Hi-Low and supported a higher count.

    T3 had about 20k posts and Jump jack Flash was more like 7K posts. The combo saga seemed to go on longer than Johnny Carson and Ed McMahon.

    Norm writes: Three was not really critical of HiLo. He just liked a different kind of count. But, enough about people who are no longer here.

    Simply concede that Freighter has the best solution with Wong Halves for shoes. Don S has the most efficient solution to indices with the ill18 for shoes. For those who can side count Aces and easily determine 1/2 point tags, will. And those who can't? Won't. End of story. No? Otherwise, as my 82 year young friend Lou says, it's a "goat fuck."
    Last edited by Moses; October 1st, 2019 at 04:47 PM.

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    Hello McFly. HELLLOOO. lol

    Spot on Bosox. Hell yes. Norm IS in charge. I could even figure that one out and I don't have decoder ring, detective badge, or a pipe. Sometimes you just can't fight city hall. But that doesn't mean you're obligated to support it either.

    I don't see why any AP worth his salt that is on the wrong end of the curve would give BJTF one speck of time.

    Hmmm. Maybe that is why you don't see posts from Tarzan, Frank Galvin, and others anymore.
    Last edited by Moses; November 11th, 2019 at 11:10 PM.

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    Thanks Bosox. Maybe when KJ did all his crying and ZZ members did all their complaining BJTF was worth it.

    But what do you really get out of it today? Zee will be Zee. The Refinery and 21Forme will continue bitch about Zee and MWP...and nothing will change. MWP is a nice enough guy. But he is really the staple of the franchise for blackjack readers? I think not.

    Norm in his ego, inifinate wisdom, and flawless judgement has now banned just about everyone except Don S.

    Hmmm. What happens if everyone bans Norm?

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