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Thread: Moses Column Count Realigned

  1. #1
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    Default Moses Column Count Realigned

    There are now 3 acceleration points to the column count. 57%. 60%. 67%.

    The overall tag are (A-10 -1 9-8 -.5) (5-7s) 1 (2-4s 1). The difference from the conventional style is they are counted in columns. This way you know what has been played and what remains to be played.

    The first stop is 57%.

    The columns are for 8-9-10-A tags combined and combined totals of (5-7s) (2-4s)

    A-8s 2-7s
    0 6
    4 9
    8 12
    12 15

    At this point you will Double 11v9,10,A; 10v9,A
    The everyday player will treat this as a minimum bet because is it closer to a threshold than an advantage.
    But a more aggressive player would double the minimum bet on 1 hand. Provided at least 1 Ace remains and the difference in columns (5-7s) (2-4s) is not more than 2.
    This is a good set up for your next hand. IF you win, and count warrants, simply move payoff to two hands. IF you lose it looks as though you're chasing your bet.

    You could double the minimum at two hands as well and the end of the deck if at least 2 Aces remain.

    The columns reversed is when you would hit 13vs3 instead of standing. Hit 10,11vs 4 instead of doubling.
    Last edited by Moses; August 3rd, 2019 at 02:27 PM.

  2. #2
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    The next stop is 60% your first advantage point:

    A-8s / 2-7s
    0 / 8
    1.5 / 9
    3 / 10
    4.5 / 11
    6 / 12
    7.5 / 13
    9 / 14
    10.5 / 15
    12 / 16
    13.5 / 17

    Bet 3/4s of your max bet if:

    1. At least 2 Aces Remain
    2. the (5-7s) (2-4s) are within 2 of each other

    If not, bet minimum.

    Also, for improved results, side count the Ace. Side count the 8 as ABCD for each one played. Drop the 8 from the large bet correlation and add 1/2 point to the Ace. However, the main count getting to 60% is the first qualifier. The point of conversion is to bet (57% rules) if the large bet correlation slip below 60%.

    Double 10v10 provided at least 2 Aces remain.

    When columns are reversed, hit 14v3,2 13v4

    Insure 19,20,10,11

    The insurance calculation is near perfect with A-8 being moved and 2 thru 8,A is now one group.
    Last edited by Moses; August 3rd, 2019 at 01:49 PM.

  3. #3
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    The max bet is at 67% and up:

    A-8s / 2-7s
    0 / 12
    2 / 13
    4 / 14
    6 / 15
    8 / 16
    10 / 17
    12 / 18

    Bet 2 hands provided at least 1 Ace remains. Columns 5-7s and 2-4s are not more than 3 apart.

    Insure all hands.

    Solid deck compositions are vital. A conventional count often suggests poor deck compositions on large bets to duck out of as opposed to leap into. This provides the option of waiting and putting yourself in a better position of power.

    If you are prone to hit odd ball hands. This percentage is the time to do it at the latter part of the deck.
    Last edited by Moses; August 3rd, 2019 at 02:17 PM.

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    Others changes are setting a lower standing point on 14,15 vs 7,8,9,19,A and 16 vs 7,8,9. There is not a clear cut advantage to always hitting these hands vs standing an the CV Index which is a threshold. Therefore, stand down to the point where the slight threshold becomes a distinct disadvantage.

    Splitting is reduced considerably in a No DAS game with pen limitations as it is.

    Doubling is also reduced is negative decks. Hence, getting 1 or more cards for the price of 1 is often a better deal than paying double for 1 small card and a hand you cannot hit. Again, instead to going buy the CV Index threshold, go to the point and hit where is becomes a disadvantage not to double. The avoids playing catch up. The key is NOT failing too far behind your opponent can foreit, preferential shuffle, or change dealers which might reduce pen.

    Everything else is based on a running count decisions. There is no True count in a column count. It's all percentages, formula's, and a running count.
    Last edited by Moses; August 3rd, 2019 at 02:25 PM.

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    Default So Fla LAw

    ...OR simply drop the 2. I do not see how Peter Griffin came up with result of the EoR of 2 outweighing the 7. But it did sell a helluva lot of books. My understanding is his study began with single deck and advanced from that point. Giving the 2 a higher tag value than the 7 will punish SCORE in CV Data sims.

    So, from a column standpoint, dropping the 2 eliminates a lot of extra steps. As he said, "good engineers understand complex equations, but the best make complex simple again."

    Con's; The EoR columns are not aligned according to Griffins study. I can live with that. Neither are Tarzan's.

    Pro's: The columns now provide a better look of (3-5s) for 15,16 decisions, and (6-8s) for 12,13,14 decisions.

    No 1/2 counts and no letters are assigned for side count purposes.

    The conversion of the Ace and 9 are eliminated as well. We've talked that the downside of a column count is the reduction of large bets in exchange for better deck compositions. However, in a conventional count, you get more large bets but have no idea what compositions you're betting into at a higher investment.

    Simply, move the rules for 57% to 60% if 3 or 4 Aces still remain. Moving any percentage over 60% (61%+) to the 67% category if 3 or 4 Aces remain.
    This will get more money on the table, more often without, sacrificing deck compositions.

    My Dad used to say, "it's the damn horse you overlook is the one that screws a person out of money with his nose." So, that being said, what does the 2 do? Not much! IF an 8 happens to be under the Ace in a 2 hand large bet situation, this can create quite a dilemma and be very costly. However, if the 2 is in the hole, there is a better than average chance the dealer could still bust behind the deck is rich in high cards. Primarily, the biggest screw job of the 2 is on 16v7 which is extremely rare - especially in a large bet situation.
    Last edited by Moses; August 15th, 2019 at 01:20 PM.

  6. #6
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    Hey look everybody....Moses is out of jail. How was your week "off" Moses?

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    Quote Originally Posted by KewlJ View Post
    Hey look everybody....Moses is out of jail. How was your week "off" Moses?

    Week. Let's go with 6 days longer than QueenJ lasted at WOV for $300 Alex. I mean Axel.

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    Dan Druff. Regarding KJs latest Norm screwed her rant. In the words of Josey Wales. Cant you shut her up?

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    As Freighter points out in the Should you splits 10? thread.


    Quite often, the deck will appear to have a high TC, but is also rich in low or middle cards cards. The conventional mantra seems to be “do the math.” That being said, the column mantra is “know your formula's are converted to exact percentages and wait for the game to come to you.”


    At 57%, according Gronbog sims of the past, this is when the edge begins to tilt in your favor. The formula results of what is played vs what is left is up to 2 difference in columns in the 57% and 60% groups and up to 3 difference in the 67% group. For instance, a common deck composition is 12-8-8.
    Now, you are okay to bet large at 12-9-7 or 12-7-9 as well. But in wouldn't be prudent to bet large into a 12-6-10 or 12-10-6. This is a beast if you consider variance to be an animal.


    However, a common deck composition in the 67% and up category is 10-7-10 or 10-10-7. Perfect world would be 10-8-9 or 10-9-8. Why? Because you know only 3 cards remain in the 7-8-9 group and 4 remain in the 3-4-5 group. Yet 14 remain in the 9-10-A group. THAT's a pretty good balance tilted in your favor. No? But, and there always seems to be a butt. Suppose you're 10-12-5. or 10-12-5. You know the deck is exhausted of cards in that column AND the ratio is 14 remaining vs 7 of the other column. No longer such a good investment now is it. But a TC will reflect it's time for a max bet.


    This is why people are complaining about variance on forums. They can't see the forest through the trees. Now for Freighter, who employs Wong Halves, this is the strongest way to tag the card values and keep deck composition in proper perspective. This is not to say you won't have some unbalanced DC's , but they are reduced significantly. Also, dropping the 2 a giving the 7 a 1 tag provides a quality 2 column count. You get more large bet opportunities, but will sometimes run into that annoying situation of getting a bunch of 2's and 8s because they are not counted. OF course, you could side count them, but that is more difficult and less effective than a 3 column count.

  10. #10
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    Default Nightshifter writes:

    Start believing the cards are manipulated via grouping certain cards together to exploit CC and BS which makes up a large portion of the players. Doesn't matter the amount of players or who comes and goes because the house plays one way and the players play BS...so the cards are manipulated via machine or hand in a way to exploit this. Take single deck for instance...when I'm shuffling I can group together a slug of high cards over a few rounds and keep them together throughout the shuffle..

    The majority of players cut off the top so this will put the cards to the back. It won't happen everytime but we are playing the percentages here. So when you think you are going to get high cards, streaks of low and neutral cards just keep pouring out giving you losing combinations for the players side. If I group the Aces together and they all come out at once or are cut to the back ? There goes your chances of having a blackjack. Double Downs, you get a low card and dealer pats because most of the high cards are grouped together and out of play. We've had this so called voodoo discussion many times here and this has been going on before most of your started how to learn to learn a card card counting strategy and to implement it.

    Now this doesn't happen all the time, but it happens more often than not, especially when it's crowded because that's when it's most effective percentage wise. What is the purpose of the cut card? Well to signal the dealer the last hand but it's also a marker as well so a well trained dealer can put certain groups of cards out of play over time. If you had a 3,4,7 and I had a 10,3,6 I would pick them up and slide them from and slide them starting from my left to right. So now this group would 3,4,7,3,6 now do an offset shuffle rinse and repeat and it will encourage grouping of cards over time and you'll create a very bad situation for the unwary CC or BS player. One type of grouping you have to watch out for is A,2,3,4,9,10 then 7,8,9s. This is very detrimental to the player side. AND if Aces are always grouped with low cards you won't get BJ's. Noisy deck that occur naturally and fade out are one thing. But they are created purposely and perpetuated for a period of time, that's another.

    Very interesting post. This is why a conventional count won't work in pitch games. By the time you figure out what the dealer is doing? You've lost money and they are shuffling. Repeat. A column count with a conservative approach keeps you in the game and buys time so your can read the dealer. Sometimes winning means being a tough out. Money lost is money you have to win back just to break even. So THINK man. Verite and CV Data are great tools but they can't do what is described above.

    It's not just a game. It's a game of people played with cards. It's not always about the shuffle but the way the cards are picked up before the shuffle. An old savvy dealer once said “the cards are only shuffling the way you play.” I never understood exactly what he meant until now.

    Freighter and Tarzan style of play are irregular, perhaps even irrational from a shuffle/pickup or conventional perspective. That's a good thing. Of course, this is why Tarzan count only came out slightly better than Hi Opt II in a sim. It doesn't allow for the human element to the game as Tarzan would. Wong Halves is 994 BC and shoes are about BC. So side counting the Ace helps Freighter duck out of some bad situations or not bet as heavy.

    There isn't a player alive who hasn't walked away from a table saying “I just got my ass kicked.” With a column count, at least I knew why. Now I know how. Good job Nightshifter.

  11. #11
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    Default Don't get 26!

    There is a line in the movie Secretariat. With a 20 length lead, the trainer hollers “don't fall off Ronnie.” A 20 big lead in is getting a blackjack or 21. But falling off is getting a 26. Stay on the damn horse.

    Especially, in a straight up game. Quite often, it means you just busted with a 10 that would've started your next hand. So you slip deeper into a negative deck.


    I think it was Don S who started a thread about the value of starting a hand with a 10 or Ace a few months ago at BJTF. The formula for the straight up game is along the same lines of logic as Insurance 38.46% of the cards are either an Ace or a 10.


    There are 32 cards that will break 16. A guaranteed loser without the dealer ever making a move. Only 12 cards out of 52 will get a 16 to 19,20,21. And that's not a guaranteed winner.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQKlatQmeR0
    Last edited by Moses; September 19th, 2019 at 06:54 PM.

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    Default calling So FLa Law

    I would like to know how T3 is able to determine deck composition without a column or Tarzan type count. I can form two columns by assigning tags to 3-7s and 9-As with the 2 and 8 being silent in order to get a higher frequency of large bets. But I do not know what's been played, and more importantly, what still remains. My understanding is he adjusts the Ace for flexibility between BC and PE which I already do. But that creates even less frequency of large bets.

    Since KJ, Zee, and MWP like to focus on and post short term results, I took a peak at mine. This week was actually 22 wins and 3 losses with large bets. But only $2125 profit. The two weeks prior were even in large bets, but produced significant profits from the little things done or not done with minimum bets.

    Good engineers understand complex equations. Great engineers make complex equations simple again. These forums make simple solutions complex for the most part. Be careful you don't step in the bullshit.

    BTW. If that was you who texted me regarding NFL picks? Sorry I accidently deleted it.
    Last edited by Moses; September 21st, 2019 at 07:03 PM.

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