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Thread: Midwest Player You are Full of SHIT

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Sep 2017

    Default Midwest Player You are Full of SHIT

    Catchy title. Don't you think? This is how MP chose to address me in a thread title on another forum. My apologies, you should have had your very own thread here from the start.

    To the lurkers who never read this forum. MP spends many days in Wisconsin trapped in blizzards and shovels snow off his roof. Exhilarating stuff. I was on pin and needles for weeks wondering whether he would rent a car, or not, to get from the airport to Blackhawk in Colorado. And then, he decided not to go. I'm still trying to cope.

    Now, MP is a master shit stirrer on many forums. He likes to start a thread and watch it all unfold. He has a knack for pissing off 21Forme on BJTF, but is a KJ supporter which leaves all in wonderment exactly where he stands in relation to the 3 Muskequeers (KJ, 21Forme, Bosox).

    MP does not like Zen Zone as he has stated in prior posts. So he posts messages to me from other forums. Evidently, he thinks his cheese smells better than Blitzer and FatBee.

    I have to go from memory as I don't currently have access to BJTF. But he didn't post for like 4 to 5 years and then came back with an abundance of threads and polls. Most of which gain little interest. But every once in awhile he'll hit a homerun. Sometimes he gets banned for it.

    Hmmm. Let's go with Quite a Character for $500 Alex. I mean Axel.

    What's your name Sir? Ern? Yearn? Urn?

    Last edited by Moses; June 2nd, 2019 at 01:00 PM.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Sep 2017


    MP writes:
    I much prefer DD over 6 deck, but I do play both.

    When do you ever play? Have you played one hand in 2019?

    Yes, I made several blackjack trips so far this year and took a shovel along on all of them except my last trip. I believe there was snow on all of them.

    All my trips were winners so far this year, but did have one losing session. Total hours played this year is about 46 hours. Last year at this time I had 72 hours of blackjack play in, but last year I was also ahead by about $750 more than this year. However on a dollar per hour basis year to date I'm doing better this year than last.

    Several? It seems as though you never leave the farm? Everyday you're posting or taking a poll. Isn't is like 3 hours to your first table? So you played roughly 4,600 hands in 5 1/2 months. I take it game selection isn't a priority. IF several meant 9 trips, it means your playing 500 hands per tip. I would hate to drive 3 hours for 500 hands. But your record is 8 wins 1 lose. No ties? So is a $10 profit considered a win?

    I have made four trips to Laughlin on charter flights to the Riverside casino. My first flight I had to pay the full price. My second trip I qualified for a flight discount, but it wasn't much solely from playing blackjack. However, many folks were getting free flights and they were not blackjack players so I added some video poker to the mix and my next two flights were completely comped.

    In a year? Decade?

    The Refinery writes: This is how you write a post that provides a wealth of information without killing a game. Well done.
    What are you implying by this statement? Are you implying what I posted about Wendover is killing the game? If so you are full of shit. Or are you referring to Zee's trip reports which are also very good? You and 21forme have never posted a trip report. Just all take and no give.

    By the way, if you think a trip report on Wendover is going to kill the game, think again. They tried tightening up the rules a few years ago and it was a disaster. Revenue dropped and a few years later they went back to to good old rules. Now what might happen if everyone says it is the greatest candy store in the USA, they might just clean house like they did when DD's team hit the town.

    Bosox writes:
    What the hell is wrong with you? I would say a little paranoia on your part. Someone can't even compliment another member without being accused of an improper implication on someone else. I resent what you said.

    Settled down Flame-boy-ant one. But here is the problem. First, MP makes a trip report. Then Zee. Then KJ and his claims of grandeur. Soon it all becomes one big pissing and lying contest. People only know and/or believe what they are told. It doesn't mean it's the truth. What matters is if they believe its the truth. So if you convince casino management a player can win easy? They tighten rules. Loose lips sink ships.
    Last edited by Moses; June 3rd, 2019 at 12:45 PM.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Sep 2017

    Default 21 Fome asks

    So why are you still a red chipper after 20+ years?

    Why do you keep asking this question?

    First, its not 20 years. Its more like over 30 years.

    Second, I did move up in stakes. When I first started playing it was $1 and $2 min bets.

    Third, $2 and $3 min tables can still be found in some places in the upper midwest. It is still very likely I will have a $2 or $3 min bet on the table at times. Also at times I will have the table max on the table.

    Fourth, most small places in upper midwest don't offer $25 min tables so green chip is not an option. $100 or $200 max bet is pretty standard.

    Fifth, I do play green chip if I'm at a casino that offers $25 min bet, if it has the best conditions. Often the best conditions are at a $10 min table.

    Sixth, I'm in this for my enjoyment. Making money is a secondary objective. Losing $1,000 to $1,500 in a day doesn't bother me. Losing $5,000 in a day would stress me out which I do not need.

    Seventh, I know I would not last long if I was betting green at these small casinos. Some places do not even tolerate red action. At my age being able to play without having to make a 5 hour drive is important so I bet red like everyone else and they seem to tolerate my play.

    So there is seven answers for you. Now quit asking this damn question.

    So, if you are only betting $2 to $5 tables. How can you profit enough in nearly every session to make your trips worthwhile?

    Wendover looks like a great rose garden on paper. However, I have struggled winning there myself. I had my biggest lifetime losing trip in Wendover. For many years my lifetime Wendover play was in the red (however, my lifetime Wendover play is now in the black). I wrote many trip reports trying to figure this out. I think if you are not use to single deck you will find it a different kind of beast.

    IF Wendover is a rose garden. What must the casinos look like in Wisconsin? Wait, I thought you were the beast in Wendover. No?

    On a typical Wendover trip I usually take 6 or 7 thousand with me. I never needed more than 4 thousand. Weekends are very crowded and playing conditions suck then. They do open all the tables on weekends, but it is still crowded. I like week days the best and on a weekday day you will only find one $25 min table open. A couple $10 min tables and mostly $5 min tables. They do even have a $3 min table that is usually always crowded. Since I always take the charter flight I always play rated. I read a trip report on a Wendover backoff not too long ago because the guy was taking bathroom breaks in negative counts. I think playing unrated in Wendover is a red flag, but who knows. Sometimes in Wendover the $10 min table might be the better choice than the $25 min table. I always pick the $10 min table if it has less players than the $25 min table. In Wendover, I do spread more playing a red chip table than a green chip table.

    A long way to travel for nothing. How can you lose $1,000 to $1,500 a day playing DD red chips? You must spread frequently and push their limits. How does that not draw heat?

    We know that won't happen. You plan trips and like to live vicariously through pthers' trips, but you don't take trips.

    You have no idea how many blackjack trips I have taken. You certainly are no authority on my trips. But I will tell you I have played blackjack in six different states. I have played blackjack in every casino in WI north of highway US-29, and at every casino in the U.P. I have played in 3 different locations in Nevada. I had a full time job all my life so my ability to travel was limited.

    Now one thing is true. I don't travel as much as I use to. As you get older your get up and go goes. But don't make up lies and say I don't take trips.

    IMPRESSIVE! How many blackjack trips have you taken over the course of 30 years?

    Here is the problem with the "long run" mantra. By the time you really have the time to play. You don't play much. MP might be a typical example of one going to set the world on fire in his younger days. But rarely even strikes a match in retirement.

    Last edited by Moses; June 3rd, 2019 at 12:13 PM.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Sep 2017


    There are 18 casinos that offer blackjack in Wisconsin according to an article listing all casinos. All casinos are on Indian Reservations.

    So 30 years. Raising a family isn't easy. I would hope most of those family getaways weren't spent with MP staring at felt. Let's say he averages 10 trips a year.

    Playing 1,000 hands per trip would be a stretch. Especially for a player who prefers single and double deck. There was probably far more single decks in the early years so getting in 300 to 400 hands in a day would be a long day. Especially with full tables. I can't see how one could get away for much more than 3 days of play when kids are at home.

    So $2 and $3 was his game and he bumped it to $5 eventually.

    That would be 10K hands a year. 30 years is 300k hands. Variance isn't even noticeable for the for 100k...or decade in MPs case. It would be very generous to say he average $.50 profit per hand over the duration of 98% on $2 to $5 tables with Indian Reservation. Nonetheless, that's $150K over 3 decades or about a $5k per year average.

    I think the figures MP has listed in the past would lead one to believe his profits are far more than just $5k per year. The guy simply doesn't lose very often.
    God definitely sheds his light on MP.
    Last edited by Moses; June 4th, 2019 at 07:46 AM.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Sep 2017


    More from Midwest Player:
    However, my total lifetime number of times I played is exactly 2,200 times. Now lets assume 5 hours for each session played and we have 11,000 hours for my total lifetime blackjack play. I didn't start keeping track of my hours played until the year 2000.

    So 11.000 x 100 hands per hour is probably too generous for Midwest Players lifetime play. But that would put him a little over a million hands. Hard to say whether that is over 20 or 30 years. At 30 years, he's playing 33k hands per year 367 table hours per year or about 30.5 hours per month. At 20 years, he's playing 50k hands per year on average and 550 table hours or about 46 hours per month. Speaking as someone who plays about 50K a year, lives in a blackjack city, and has already raised his family? Either is a load of blackjack for a guy raising a family. Going 3 hours to his first stop and then an hour between stops? HE probably another 11,000 hours getting to a table and back home.

    If each session is 5 hours then he was sitting at a blackjack table between 6 and 9 days per month. The doesn't include the time to travel to and from. He must have a very understanding wife. Iffin you had a full time job then you'd be playing 3 weekends out of a month and missing church. Don't see why God would shine his light on you so much. Iffin he played 9 days per month and even more with travel in 20 years. His roof would cave in. Who the hell keeps those kinds of records for 20 years?

    But to answer his poll. Blackjack is a game of people played with cards. So your backoffs are front loaded. Once you learn to play within casino tolerance they almost diminish. The bigger issue is getting a fair game. Forums always speak about money. The key is how you spend your TIME.

    So if I divide by my total number of backoffs, I have one backoff for every 2,200 hours played.

    You really are a rare bird in this world. It would be more interesting to hear how in the world you got backed off 5 times in 20 years. Then again, maybe not!
    Last edited by Moses; June 6th, 2019 at 10:37 AM.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Sep 2017


    21Forme writes
    81.5h * 100 hph = 8150 hands.

    Assuming N0 is 40000 hands, that's 20% of N0. Yes, something is clearly wrong. you should be winning big. Try a higher level count.

    Seems you spend more time planning trips you don't take and posting online about the game than playing it.

    That's about 5.5 weeks of play for me of very selective games. You could easily playout 8150 in a week on Verite to work on your game and/or higher level counts. I do both at that pace. IT's a matter of organizing your time accordingly.

    OF course, you could play no hands, not practice at all, post 2 or 3 times a day, worry about me, and write 2 or 3 sentence replies like the 21Forgay genius above.

    Dalmations writes:
    @forme 21 pusi kurac cigane

    I see your popularity is going the wrong way. He really likes you. You might want to start worrying about yourself and opposed to me. Just sayin! Dipshit!

    People read this and know I'm not afraid to stand up to you. They also realize you're a full blown coward. So guys, don't take 21Forme's shit. GIVE IT BACK TO HIM! First he puts you on ignore. Then he runs. Ha. Runs. Get it? Sort of appropriate with this ass hole.
    Last edited by Moses; June 25th, 2019 at 01:07 PM.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Sep 2017


    21Forme writes:
    May be presented in a smart ass way, but it's factual and something for the newbies to understand.

    Some players fixate on short term wins and losses. That's not how this game works, given its high variance.

    True. IF you don't play straight up. But if you limit yourself to straight up pitch, and use your noodle a little bit, you can reduce variance significantly.

    Instead of always saying high variance. Why not you for once write more than 2 sentences and describe the variance you endure in a shoe game. It very could be most folks can't handle it. Doesn't mean you're better than them. It could mean they are smarter than you for avoiding the game altogether in the first place.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Sep 2017


    Some casinos that I don't visit very often will send me comp flyers for about a year, then they stop. I have heard of some casinos giving comps again after the mailers stopped if you call them and ask for something. I don't know what this is called so I will just call it a "Welcome Back Comp." Are most casinos still willing to comp you after an extended abstinence like 2 or 3 years. I do know of a casino that does this, but I haven't tried it with that many casinos.

    I tried it with one casino last year and they wouldn't do anything for me. Another casino did. What's everyody's experience with this?

    Nice thread starter. Well, IMO it could be one of three things or all. 1.) They've read so much about snow in Wisconsin, they figure you are always on your roof and never have time to open your mail anyway. 2.) They now realize you spend more time thinking about going than actually going.
    3.) They've read about your winning streak and are scared shitless.

    Your numerous threads suggest wander, worry, and wonder. Could be they think you're wandering around worrying about why you wonder so much. No?

    I'm just joking MP. At least I replied.
    Last edited by Moses; June 30th, 2019 at 01:16 PM.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Sep 2017

    Default Bob, I'm not Bosox

    Midwest Players starts a thread at VCT:
    Looks like you are calling me BoSox in the Eldorado thread, but you are right about one thing, I'm a liberal.

    Wouldn't it have made more sense to simply post this in the El Dorado. Are you going for the record off most shutouts?

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Sep 2017

    Default Wife Says Why Didn't You Quit While You Were Ahead

    Where do you come up with these threads Midwest Player? Did you fall off the roof and hit your head?

    Win or make too much? She divorces you. Lose or make too little? She divorces you and looks for someone making or winning too much.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Sep 2017


    Midwest Player: You and Zee do come off as a simpletons quite often. OF course, I mean this in the nicest way possible. However, with Zee it's clearly by design. Whereas you are probably a nice ole guy with a load of questions and inquiries. But it is obvious you like to stir the pot and then sit back and watch it unfold. Kind of a pithy thing to do. Note, I said pithy NOT puthy!

    However, I looked up the word pussies in the dictionary. It said “see 21Forme and The Refinery.” So I looked them up in the dictionary. It read “writes two rude lines and puts everyone on ignore - BFD.”

    So MWP, let me tell you a little story.

    I coached football for one year back in the early 80's. I had 5 really good players. Our offense was sort of a run and shoot option. In short, we kicked ass. But this other team had this kid that was a real bad ass. Our match up would be the last game of the season and we were both undefeated. At the time, I was a man in his mid 20's coaching jr high boys. They were worried that Larry was going to hurt them during the game. With good reason because that is what he'd been threatening to do and doing to others all season.

    So, on the first day of practice that final week. I had each of my star players run at me and hit me as hard as they could. They were in full pads and I was wearing coaching shorts, cleats. and a tee shirt.
    They hit me and I didn't move. Then, I walk over and grabbed a blocking dummy. I told two of them to come at me full steam and hit me as hard as they could. Well, the blocking pads went flying and I back peddled 5 yards before going ass over tea kettle. My point to them, and OUR game plan was for two of them to hit Larry just like that every FUCKING play. Larry played both offense and defense. By the end of the 3rd quarter, he walked to side lines looking out of the ear hole of his helmet, and wanted out of the game. We went on to win big.

    Now, the same thing is happening at BJTF. The Refinery and 21Forme are ganging up on you, Zee, and newbies or anyone who doesn't fit into the cult every fucking time. Especially, when you start posts unrelated to blackjack or something you should already know. But they isolate you. Who the fuck cares about their wimpy ass two lines and who they put on ignore? So YOU have to build a bigger army and come back at them with more force and strength in numbers. They are taking advantage of the fact y'all defend yourselves individually. It's follow the leader with those two. They really do sound profound sometimes. NOT! But imagine if you play follow the leader with 7?

    THIS will force Norm to make a decision to either get rid of them or get rid of you all. But if you have strength in numbers, it's much easier to eliminate two rats than a ton of field mice.

    In short you, Zee, newbies, and other who catch their ration of shit flinging have to come together and hit them full force on EVERY FUCKING POST. Norm won't even have to make a decision. They'll be looking out of their ear hole and won't care to play their own game anymore.

    Who knows? Maybe they will start there own forum and put everyone on ignore. Shrewd!

    Why is 21Forgay so upset that MWP asked a simple question about T3. C'mon maaan. The guy (or gal) makes over 14k posts...long lengthy posts for the most part. Then just disappears. That is NOT trolling rabbit ass. MWP ask a legit question. Now ANSWER it you fucking moron or shut the fuck up.

    Above is an example of how you strike back. Imagine if 10 guys made a post of a similar nature to the queer lover. IT would be ear hole time for the one who puts his head in the sand in a couple of days. No?

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Sep 2017

    Default Best post wver

    Midwest Player writes: Zen Zone exists so Moses can call 21Forme and the Refinery a couple of pussies.

    Moses replies.
    OMG. Funniest damn thing I ever read. Kudos to you Midwest Player. The best one liner ever written. Ironic, somewhat poetic justice that you put it on the queen and/or king of one liners.

    Standing O for Midwest Player.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Sep 2017


    Bosox writes:
    Just to give another perspective on your post. If a player in the course of playing is experiencing all kinds of exciting ups and downs he/she is overbetting and not considered a real experienced AP. Showing excitement "good or bad" is for camouflage, and should be part of the ACT.

    MWP, enjoys playing recreationally, with good blackjack skills and is happy with his own playing success, by winning money that he does not have to rely upon. Notice in his above quote that I copied, he said: "

    Thought provoking post. I was trying to think what I get excited about when playing. It certainly isn't money. It's not swings because they come and go. I fully expect to lose with 20 in a negative deck. Almost surprised when I don't. If I start reacting to hands? I know it's time for a break. There are time when I've been to rigid or robotic. Like losing every hand in a deck. Dealer might look for a reaction.

    Coach would never acknowledge a made basket. That's what we were supposed to do. He would sometimes applaud a good pass and get mad as hell if the player who scored didn't give credit to the passer. A charging foul was about the only way to gets his ass off the bench in excitement. Why? He saw we had guts enough to take one in the nuts for the team. And quite often, it represented a 4 point turnaround. The two points taken away from their offense and the two we get if we score.

    So, for me, it's when the dealer deals deep into a negative deck and my count suggests the opposite play and wins the last hand that shouldn't have been dealt in the first place. The preferential shuffle no longer bothers me. Sometimes it might be the dealers way of sending a message. One of my regular dealers shuffled early, before I could even put out my large bets. Next deck she shuffled after 3 rounds. The message she was sending was our game changed from blackjack to hit-the-road jack. Hence, I don't need to be messing with the EITS on this shift.
    Last edited by Moses; August 30th, 2019 at 04:27 PM.

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