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Thread: Snitch and Snatch

  1. #16
    Join Date
    Sep 2017

    Default Pole? or Pull?

    Midwest player should start a pole on how long it will take for Norm to pull this poll.

    Zee still contemplating Colorado? You may as well go. Then, we'll all know. If you worked on your game as hard as you do finding out about where to play, you'd be unstoppable. If you employed the same bulldog style once you arrived at a casino as you do on a forum finding where casinos are at, you'd have more money than Cheesous a/k/a Midwest Player.

    Zee writes: No matter who, hiding their original name on a forum and posting using another is a cowardly thing to do.
    I agree Zee. Not only cowardly, but also dumb. It would be like flying to Las Vegas and taking a day off from playing blackjack and then flying to Colorado to play blackjack.

    However, I also find it hard to believe that people can quit the habit (be on forums) so easily, so if banned, com back hidden.
    Hmmm. Let's go with words by T3 and KJs therapist for $250 Alex.

    Be, it Moses or T3 or KJ, I wonder if they are on the forum lurking at first and then coming on with a different name.
    I lurk from my Island of No Norm nearly everyday. Y'all are about to bore me to death. C'mon Zee tell the Stetson story again, please. Your fans are waiting.

    If a new member is Moses, there would likely be basketball or coaching references. If its T3, it would be a long post.
    Okay Zee. Let's go with a Box and 1 on this poor Skinny guy who doesn't have a clue what y'all are talking about. Everyone give him unhelpfuls and 21Forme (iggy) puts him on ignore. Deny him the ball of more than 5 posts per day. Don't allow him in the paint. That should fix his little red wagon. You guys are ruthless. Just 714 shy of ever knocking one out of the park. Of course, that's a baseball reference.

    Bulb writes: My vote is on Tater. That was my thought Bulb. But Tater isn't skinny. I ask him. He said no. Then I thought it could be you. But there was no number behind the name. SKinnyBJplayer69? Leaves no doubt. Bosox FUDD is about to bust a spring on this one.
    Last edited by Moses; May 8th, 2019 at 03:06 PM.

  2. #17
    Join Date
    Sep 2017

    Default Puppet The Refinery

    therefinery Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2016

    Tater was a Moses sock. I'm going with it being a sock of worshipful21master.

    Hey Junior; Who is your puppet? You haven't even been around 3 years yet, 742 posts, and you're an expert? I've been around 6 years with 7k posts just at BJTF. Never heard of worshipful21master. Somebody is a phony here and it isn't Moses.

    Who are you? Stop playing high and mighty phony bologna.

    The REfinery, 21Forme, and RCJH should all come clean and then the playing field is more level for others to do the same. What a joke BJTF has turned into.

    The Asylum (aka Norman Bates’ Motel) describes BJTF on another site.

    SkinnyBJplayer asks;
    Who on earth is Moses?
    A bibical reference?

    21Forme; You can divide the $29k 3 different ways if you'd like. Then, you give him an unhelpful. What are you, a junior high pimple faced girl?
    Pathetic. Absolutely pathetic. Norm should ban you for starting such a stupid thread in the first place. He'd send a message and his posts of utter nonsense would drop another 80%. At least you don't have to subscribe to Playboy. All you have to do is look in the mirror and you'll see the biggest pussy on earth.
    21Forme is the poster boy for stupid.


    Last edited by Moses; May 8th, 2019 at 06:53 PM.

  3. #18
    Join Date
    Sep 2017


    and you'll realize he's a nutcase who talks to himself. He thinks he has an audience (besides midwest player), but in reality it's bots making him think people are reading his nonsense. He's been barred from all the BJ forums.

    21Forme is a hemorrhoid to forums. Puts everyone on hold. Leaves. Talks shit on the forum and its moderator. Says he is never coming back. Then comes back because he is a bore on every forum. Then repeats. Who cares about bots? I'm in your head 21Forme. You're a piss poor excuse for a psychologist. Slow down turbo, I've been banned from VCT and BJTF all posts about Moses still continue for months. 21Forme leaves and no one notices. Damn, you're starting to sound like a drama queen. Freighter punked your ass. So you ran and hid to another forum. I should find the posts where you talk trash on Norm and BJTF.
    Last edited by Moses; May 8th, 2019 at 08:14 PM.

  4. #19
    Join Date
    Sep 2017


    21Forme wirtes about Zee:
    It's one thing to post a query about a venue to gather info. It's another to announce to the world your planned destination and when you're going, before it happens.

    For example:
    1. Is it worth visiting the UP casinos? Anyone have some info on the game conditions?
    2. I'm planning a trip to Harris, MI in May. Can anyone tell me about the DD BJ games there?

    Which would a sane person do?

    And don't forget that if you're trying to protect Zee here, who doesn't seem to protect himself, every time you post to this thread, you bring it back to the top.

    I hate admit it. But 21Forme does have a point and by defending Zee you're crippling him. Zee has a long history of wanting others to do his legwork for him. 21Forme has a long history of being obsessed with Zee. The person who should be offended most by Zee is Don S. Anyone doing the work Don S had done and then Zee taking shortcuts and claiming success is an insult.

    So Norm. Ban them both. It's not as if you haven't done it before. Zee for being a lazy idiot and 21Forme for being obsessed with this lazy idiot. Problem solved only make it permanent this time and the game of Snitch and Snatch is over.

    Midwest player writes; I wouldn't like it if someone posted the day I arrived in Wendover, but wouldn't care about Las Vegas.

    Exactly my point. No one would care in Wendover either if you weren't posting about easy earnings during your trips. I suggest you go back and delete many posts.

    Last edited by Moses; May 10th, 2019 at 12:22 PM.

  5. #20
    Join Date
    Sep 2017

    Default Don S writes:

    Haven't really gone anywhere. Just haven't found too many interesting discussions of late.


    You have a point.

  6. #21
    Join Date
    Sep 2017

    Default 21forme writes;

    to Midwest Player
    What difference does it make to you, as you only fantasize about making trips, but never leave home. Is it because you need to be on call for an emergency roof shoveling?

    You worried every one to death about your big trip to Colorado, how to arrive, how to get to blackjack, Planes, Trains, and Automobiles. Then decided not to go? What a pisser!

    And how do you know that's the same anonymous poster?
    Is you. It's always you. Who do? Who do you think you're fooling? You went from a consecrated boy to a constipated has been who never was.

    Apparently, there have been multiple Zee sightings in the last week.
    Yes. I can hardly wait to hear if the cinnamon rolls are still are great at the Kings Derby in Idaho Springs as I remember.

  7. #22
    Join Date
    Sep 2017


    Umbrella man writes:
    This is an elaborate cover story. In reality, MWP and Zee drove a scooter all the way to Aspen hoping to find Mary Swanson and return her briefcase.

    Maybe they will make it into a movie?


    That John Denver is full of shit Man.

    Last edited by Moses; May 19th, 2019 at 07:22 AM.

  8. #23
    Join Date
    Sep 2017


    21Forme writes to Midwest Player:
    ...And you never will. Posting trip reports is nothing but detrimental to the AP community.

    O dammit. I think I agree with you again. I don't know about any AP communities. Do they have gas stations and a McDonalds? But it certainly isn't helping anyone who competes on a regular basis. It only makes the job of easing our opponents nerves even more difficult. But Midwest Player and Zee are small potatoes. What about your buddy KJ? Posting he makes $115k in 5 weeks. Turned $4,300 into a million between the age of 21 and 36 and continues to make $100k a year.

    Why worry about a guy who spends more time on his roof shoveling snow off than he does sitting at a blackjack table? Or a guy who retired from a profession to play blackjack and move to a city far away from casinos because he has a gambling problem and he knows it. Yep, read it twice. It's a mindfuck.

    But you won't say shit, if you bit into it, to your little queer pal KJ. What is wrong with this picture?
    Last edited by Moses; May 26th, 2019 at 11:53 AM.

  9. #24
    Join Date
    Sep 2017

    Default Zee writes:

    First, the math supports it? Math has an unlimited bankroll, never makes mistakes, never has back offs, always bets optimally, does not have emotions, etc., etc. If you can do the same, go for it!

    It's a game of people played with cards.

    As I, and a million others, have found out, its as tough as becoming a pro basketball or football player and making a living at it. You can argue that one can play professional basketball for 5 years and make as much as you could working 8-5 all your life but it aint easy.

    Yeah, these pros do it but, just like the NBA player, these guys are special. A majority of us who have settled for playing recreationally, hoping to break even or supplement income. The difference between being a pro-basketball player and a full time AP/card counter is that you can look in the mirror and assess your chances of success as a basketball player but the mirror does not show you the mental aspects required to succeed as a full time AP.

    Now I'm going to use a word you hate to hear. Practice. Talent will carry on you so far. But the difference is in practice. In blackjack, Verite is like having the keys to gym. CV Data is the best way to compare various tag values. It's like shooting free throws, if something is not aligned properly is will show up in the percentage long term. CV Data lines you up. By practicing, you allow the game to come to you. In others words, you play with no fear because whatever happens? You were waiting for it as opposed to being surprised or intimidated by it. When you reach the point of seeing the game as merely an extension of practice, then you've arrived.

    No one can be Zee but Zee, lol.

    I agree. When God made Zee, HE certainly broke the mold. Here is the problem with your endless supply of questions. About 99% involves thresholds. Therefore, you are not only confusing the shit out of yourself but other unpolished players who read the forum as well. You NEED to know the difference between a threshold and an advantage. Thresholds are for self professed APs to chase their tails and sniff each others butts on a forum. Advantages are for winning at the tables in a casino.

    Cost of underbetting... and other questions.

    Let's put in this way Zee. The cost of overbetting leads to getting 86ed. Two words Casino Tolerance.

    There seem to be newbies and recreational counters here and hearing from the pros might help. As losing mounts, maybe a losing streak, I find myself betting even more conservatively than normal. Then, when I review a session, I wonder if I lost because I was underbetting, I dont really know the answer for sure.

    Zee needs to worry about Zee. Not newbies. Play out 10k hands, in sessions, exactly the way you play in a casino. Let's put it this way. By then, you will have far better knowledge of the most important factor in the game. YOU. Play out 100k hands and you'll be answering this question instead of asking it.

    For example, in a DD game, after the first round and only maybe 8 cards have been played, the running count is +3, normally, I raise my bet from the $25 minimum to $50 but when I have lost a bit of money, I stay with the $25 bet because its early in the shoe (even if the true count would be higher than 1.5). I sometimes reduce my max bet from $150 to just $100. I wonder if delaying my ramp or lowering my max bet is hurting me.

    Say what? This is what I mean by letting the game come to you. Xachery. You should know xachery what to do. Otherwise, you face end up rooking xachery rike your ass. It's takes some work. But, considering you've been asking relatively the same questions for at least 6 years? If you'd done your homework, you'd now know what to do. You've got to be dizzy from chasing your tail in circles.

    On A,7 versus 9-A, the strategy is to hit but when should one deviate from it? Should we stand when its high negative or positive? (One deviation among many I dont know).

    Zee, this is a threshold. Maybe 1 in 50K hands with a large bet out. Even higher if you included the 7 in your count. You play about 30k hands a year. So what are we talking, once every two years? Minimum bet? Who cares.

    Another one I dont know off the top is 4,4 vs 5,6. When to split, double or hit.

    Ditto. Spend some time reviewing CV Data logs. This is why you drive people nuts that do and have done their homework. Not doing it, only hurts you. There is no shortcut. There IS no tomorrow. There IS no tomorrow.


    There IS no tomorrow.

    Last edited by Moses; May 28th, 2019 at 12:08 PM.

  10. #25
    Join Date
    Sep 2017


    Bob writes:
    Here’s the main problem. It’s not the math or the time or training it takes to become a skilled counter. This is the easy part. The problem is casinos weren’t built to hand out money to APs. If they know you’re counting, you’ll get the boot. It’s that simple.

    Most people don’t live in an area where there are enough casinos to get away with it playing big stakes. You either have to travel a lot or live in a place like Vegas (with a lot of casinos), otherwise you aren’t going to make enough to live on.

    Most pros and big players have long ago burned down all their local shops so they have to travel to get a good game. Unless you like to travel a lot, this is a hard way to make a living.

    What a dumbass thing to do! Work the circle from the furthest point in...not out.

    Define Irony:


    Bunch of self professed AP Pros giving bad check marks on a forum because they are no longer allowed to play.

    When I was on BJA, that was the first thing I noticed....all the posts from newbies saying they had just lost their local stores once they started counting. Now none of these newbies can play at their local shops, even as a hobby making small pocket change. They too have to travel long distances to get a good game.

    Play nice. Be nice. Stay within casino tolerance. If you don't know it? Figure it out.

    The easy part is doing it. The hard part is getting away with it. And the higher your stakes, the harder it is to get away with. Most people don’t live in an area where they can pound away at their local casinos and get away with it. At least, not for very long.

    Nothing is easy in this game. It's work just like any other job. But the difference is you can get fired for a strong performance in this job. Most jobs, they just cut you commissions or reduce your territory. But no, you can raise a family playing blackjack without a very rich and money producing spouse.

    Define insanity:

    Last edited by Moses; May 29th, 2019 at 10:32 AM.

  11. #26
    Join Date
    Sep 2017

    Default RS writes to Zee

    In which part of my post did I underestimate what it takes to be a successful full time AP? Sorry to break it to you, but I have a feeling that since between the two of us, only one of us is a full time AP -- and you are not. Practically every post you make here you are ridiculed, and rightfully so.

    I'm inclined to agree. But the problem isn't how often he plays, it's how he practices which effects the way he plays. Thus advice is worthless from someone with no work ethic. Now being a full time AP isn't exactly something to brag about either. Now way would I want to be jumping on an airplane to go play blackjack. My TIME is worth more than Plains, Trains, and Automobiles only to stair at felt. Plus there are far better/easier ways to invest my money.

    Zee is smarter than you think. For instance, he has you idiot self professed APs constantly provided answers for him... and he never takes your advice. But y'all have been stepping in the same trap day after day for at least 6 years now. When does 21Forme ever have time to play? He spends the majority of his time focused on Zee.

    Right now, I'm strictly a green chipper playing about 50k hands a year. In 2011 to 2013 I was a $10 min bet player and playing 100K a year. I make far more at 50K than 100k in half the time with less interruptions. I should jump to black chip and drop back to 30k hands annually because there are even more things I want to do with my life than sit at a blackjack table or look for my game. But I'm not sure the pit can take that much of a daily hit.

    I wish there was a $50 chip. I should at least double my sports bets. But when 5 losses in a row occur, a $10k hit is much easier to take than $20k. Say what you want. But you don't know until you wake up the next morning after a loss and have two bets that day.

    You guys wear out the word PRO or AP like it's some sort of badge of honor. It's not, for one thing, it's self professed. I could care less about titles. This is a win today - play tomorrow business. Keep the income steam high and the expense ratio low. You don't get that?
    Last edited by Moses; May 31st, 2019 at 12:22 PM.

  12. #27
    Join Date
    Sep 2017


    Steve writes:
    so i post a legitimate question and i get unreasonable answer "sometimes" well maybe John will "sometimes win" LOL yea sorry so i go to the horses mouth and he lunges at me.

    Sonny and Cher song; And the Beat Goes On.

    Bjgenius bosox midwest player all think im a retard because why? i asked a honest question?

    Not sure you'd get an honest answer on a forum. BJ Genius sees blinking lights and little green men is ASMs. The dynamic duo probably have a combined age of 150+ and a combined lifetime play of less than 300K hands. AP and Pro are self professed terms. And then you have some half wit queer bringing down Vegas? What is wrong with this picture?

    i dont want to suffer Billy the blackjack kids fate nor suffer the same fate as John?

    Not your Circus. Not your monkeys.

    well if not losing 5grand or 9 grand like John makes me a retard then thats fine with me id be happier with my money in my bank not the casinos bank but if you want to be full blown retard then proceed at the tables and carry on i am done posting on this site just a bunch of idiots who seem to know it all only one who plays is John and ZK and ZK stopped posting claims the strip shuffles are fishy,

    Anyone can come up with a number and post it on a forum. KJ and Midwest Player are notorious for it. What you SEE is what you get in a casino. What your READ is, more than likely, bullshit on a forum.
    Last edited by Moses; May 31st, 2019 at 09:36 AM.

  13. #28
    Join Date
    Sep 2017

    Default Bob writes to RS

    I’m still trying to understand RS comments. Somehow he was trying to relate casinos not letting you play to surfing in Kansas. I’m sure if I think long and hard enough I’ll get it. Lol

    Okay. I will help you out Bob. But this is the last time. Sort of like KJs tearful farewells at VCT. There was a Kansas guy who was soaking wet and walked into the bar. People ask what happened? The guy replies, "oh I was out trapping beaver this morning and my canoe tipped over."

    RS asks "where you in the river"? Kansas guy replies "naw, I was out in the cornfield and the damn thing just tipped over on me." Here's YOUR sign RS.

  14. #29
    Join Date
    Sep 2017


    21 Forme writes:
    I agree. Too bad Reno has free wifi hotspots. Otherwise, that mentally ill homeless person known as Moses, who does nothing but scour forums all day, then talk to himself, would have to find something productive to do in between his VA psych clinic appointments..

    You're really fuckin stupid. Go ahead, make the bet about me being homeless. You're a coward as well. Prove me wrong? Ever notice how new posters seem to be coming from everywhere? Maybe lurkers can see you're all mouth and nothing to fear when they read how much shit I give you on Zen Zone. There is no blackjack community. Just 3 old fucks and a queer with nothing better to do. IT's easy to go surf forums with todays technology. May want to get your equipment up to speed.

    You go on a forum, put everyone who doesn't agree with or cater to you on ignore. Then talk shit after they leave. Anytime your confronted you stick your head in the sand. Maybe you need to grow some balls. No?

    Personally, I think you're Flash. If not, I owe Flash an apology. He is actually the 2nd most boring person on earth behind you. Now get back with your little queer friend and come up with another 2 line comeback. If the 3 moron's Bosox, KJ, 21Forme would stop writing stupid shit, then I wouldn't have much to write about now would I. You account for 90% of my material just by being complete idiots.

    Last edited by Moses; June 2nd, 2019 at 09:45 AM.

  15. #30
    Join Date
    Sep 2017

    Default Bob on 21Forme

    21forme, I’m finally getting around to addressing your post. This is one of the more interesting things I’ve found since I’ve been on these forums. The fact that APs are proud of the fact that they “tap out” when they are NOT smart enough to engage with someone in a debate or comprehend what someone is saying. Putting someone on ignore is the equivalent of “tapping out”.

    21Forgay, is known worldwide for being a big pussy. He once put me ignore and then listed it in his signature. Like I gave two shits. But what pisses me off is he had a whole lot to say when I was banned and couldn't respond. Thus my Island at Zen Zone become my tool for response. Thank you ZZ.

    Ever notice the ones constantly giving themselves to self professed title of AP or Pro are arrogant pricks? That's what I thought AP stood for.

    But in the case of someone on a forum, there is no reason to show weakness to someone else by tapping out. Here’s some friendly advice: If you want to ignore someone, just ignore them. That’s the most effective strategy and doesn’t show the other person you’re weak and defeated.

    I don't think ignore is a sign of weakness. It might even be a sign of strength. Sometimes you have to evaluate what is worth your time reading and what is not. Who wants to read something that pisses them off? It's like someone sticking a phone with pictures of ass cracks at Walmart in your face when you're trying to watch the NBA Finals. When that happens, I'm known for a rendition response that would make Freighter blush.

    This is one thing I’ve always respected with Freightman and Zee. You’ll never see them “tap out” and put someone on ignore. They’ve got too much pride.

    Just something to think about as you continue to inform everybody of all the people you’ve “tapped out” with (put on ignore).

    The problem with 21Forgay is he has to broadcast it. Like he's important enough to give a rip about. Who cares who "iggy" has on ignore? Like they used to say about those escaping during water breaks at practice. "That boy sure has a lot of quit in him."

    Freighter writes; Moses, thank you for your observations.

    You're welcome Freighter.
    Last edited by Moses; June 11th, 2019 at 09:14 PM.

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