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Thread: Freighter vs Bob 21, DBS, Keystone The Rain, The Park, and Other things

  1. #16
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    Keystone to Alan: Ok that is fair enough. But why would you come back to a place where the guy that you are scared of hangs out?....as an investigative reporter I`m sure you would agree that is a fair question

    Why would you run your mouth to someone that can't answer for nearly a month now? What, you only pick on old men and little guys?
    Last edited by Moses; March 16th, 2019 at 01:28 PM.

  2. #17
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    Default Bob 21

    Bob 21 writes:

    Moses, you’ve asked me to come clean on who I am so here it is. Yes, I have about 256 or so different handles, but ustonzen is not one of them. I have no idea who he is. I came after him. I’ve already said why I have so many handles so I won’t go into this again. It’s also my hobby and I do it to keep Bobo active since he likes to play forum detective. In fact, just today I came up with ten new handles. Now I just need to find ten new forums to use them on. So Bobo, you’ve got your work cut out for you. I’m one step ahead of you.

    I have only tried to deliberately deceive one person with my different handles and that’s Moses. I have already said why I did this. It was not to stab him in the back...it was to better understand his counting system. I hope Moses can find it in his heart to forgive me, because I’ve come to find out this is the worse transgression an AP can make. As kJ has pointed out, you can try to fool someone by being a “sock”, but you should NEVER try to fool them by being a different “handle”. This distinction is still something I’m trying to figure out. You got to remember nobody gave me the AP code of ethics manual, so I’m still winging it.

    Thanks for your candor Bob. I appreciate it because it is hard to find on the forums. Moses was a nickname given to me from my old playing days. I hunkered down at BJTF and that was it. I wouldn't have even known about that if Norm hadn't told me to check it out when I ordered his product. Is someone would've given me the AP manual code, I probably never would have signed on in the first place.

    My view is that Norm is Jeff Dunham and everyone else is a puppet that comes out of his suitcase. Then, be surprised when they are not. You did one helluva job. I had you from everything from a casino spy to T3 typing on two computers in his basement.

  3. #18
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    "Bob, I have ask a few times now. Please get me the phone number, case number, and detective working on my case. I have NOT received correspondence from anyone."

    Blob, apparently you condone all of those punch out threats that he makes "MWPlayer thinks he should get a second chance". Moses thinks that he is completely innocent, and all his mannerisms and insults are normal behavior. He needs about 10 years in Guantanamo Bay Prison.

    Thanks for posting this Bosox. Now would you please post the other $29K challenges. I wouldn't say I'm 100% innocent. However, since February 22 all I have been doing here is answering posts and threads about me. When someone gets banned then you're supposed to let it go. What I can't believe is how you support KJ - truly a gay activist that does his group far more bad than good. Then that fucking goon Keystone that backs down in a PM and then comes at me when I can't respond. I didn't even know who he was until he started posting his crap in my direction.

    Sure, I will take 10 years for standing up for my rights, freedom of speech, and busting their little narrow asses. I've lived 60 years and have no complaints. But there is a better place. I'm not afraid to go. C'mon now boys, stop your yakking, and let's get on with this.
    1. PUT your money where you mouth is KJ.

      So I sort of determined that Moses was likely a $5 player, spreading to $15 or $20. Probably a retired guy with retirement pension from some sort of blue collar career and/or social security, who hung out in the sportsbook with his retired buddies and played a bit of $5 blackjack (probably at the begging of the month when he wasn't broke). And I am not making fun of that....that scenario isn't a bad situation for someone retired that enjoys gambling.

      I will bet your $29K you are wrong.

      However because of this threat situation and my involvement with Law enforcement, they have shared with me some info and it turns out Moses is NOT retired, or at least not of traditional retirement age, although getting close. He is however probably receiving social security...social security disability and if I had to guess (they wouldn't share this info) I would guess not for a physical disability.

      I will bet your $29K you are wrong.

      So he likely has his SS disability or SSI (if he never worked) and the part about hanging out with his buddies in the sportsbook, wagering $11 on a few basketball games and occasionally playing $5 blackjack probably still holds. Only difference is his buddies are probably not legitimate "retired" guys as I first assumed. Probably a mix of homeless (like the great Tatar) and others in the same boat as Moses. Moses may or may not even be homeless himself. I would guess not. Probably has some room that he rents so he has a place to lay his head, but who knows...who cares.

      I will bet your $29K you are wrong.

      THAT is what we are talking about here. The only difference with Moses is that he is an internet troll who has recently escalated his trolling to a criminal level with repeated threats of physical violence.

      Please list the phone number of your agency, detective name, case number, and I will call them. There is also a law about entice. Bring it KJ.

      KJ writes: In re-reading, I should have said homeless or near homeless groups of people. But I think everyone gets the jist and probably has encountered these types of people.

      I will bet you $29K you are wrong. C'mon KJ stop being such a wuss. MAN UP. WISE UP. PAY UP.
      SHUT UP.
    Last edited by Moses; March 18th, 2019 at 01:30 PM.

  4. #19
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    Rob Singer writes: Kew, give up with you're make believe forum world of "I can say anything I want and I just HAVE to be believed....or else I'll be jumping up & down and screaming like a little fairy". The only thing you know how to exploit is how to waste hours every day pushing your phony "Look at me!"..."Look at me!" I'm a bj pro!!" concoction.

    KJ thinks everyone on the gambling sight he posts is gay. Every time he writes something they reply "what an ass."
    Last edited by Moses; March 17th, 2019 at 04:29 PM.

  5. #20
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    Default Hello Bulb:

    Based on the math, we know we’ll win in the long run. In the short run, we could good get our bell rung, but in the long run, we’ll ring their bell. We like the long run.
    There was a guy in high school named Bob. He'd always have a tootsie pop in his mouth. So when someone ask him his name, he'd say "Bob" but it sounded like Bulb. Thus the nickname I gave him which we all still call him today. You have so many different names, it's easier to refer to you as Bulb. Plus it makes me think of Bob, who was a real character, and laugh.

    In a game of people played with cards, one better be more concerned about advantage over math. Win today. Play tomorrow. Because everyday we sit down to play, our peaches are in the hands of the pit. Now if there was no pit? Then we could worry about long runs and sweet rewards. Ding. Ding. Ding. The "long run" sells books and provides excuses for losers. The "advantage" wins games today and offers games tomorrow.

    I think Moses might be back in the saddle, so to speak.
    Just when we got KJ all calmed down, and on the correct meds, you want to throw him into another hissy fit?

    But based on kj’s standards this is okay. Until someone sends me the official AP code of conduct manual, I’m going with Kj’s manual. He says sock puppets are okay as long as the sock puppet himself/herself feels they are justified in using a sock puppet. Makes sense to me. Lol.

    That is all greek to me. But let's suppose you are correct. Wouldn't that be somewhat justified when threads and posts have been made about me for nearly a month after I've been gone? VCT is like an empty dark gym after a basketball game without me to write about.
    Perhaps you should recruit T3? He doesn't seem to be doing much lately. Talk about someone kicking KJ's ass? O my. That was like a coyote on a poodle. T3 Q boy 0.

    I’m still learning the ins and outs of being a true AP. As I’ve said before, there are a lot of nuisances to it.

    There are no ins and outs. But many degrees of APism. There are moderators. Some proactive. Some reactive. So...are you cool with my nickname for you?
    Last edited by Moses; March 20th, 2019 at 01:25 PM.

  6. #21
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    Bob writes:

    I’m going to have to respectfully disagree with Stealth and RCJH on this one. I don’t see how Zee has failed if he’s done what he says, which is make $70,000 (I think I got that number right) and survived at his local casinos for about 4 years before he got the boot. And he’s still getting excellent comps from casinos when he travels, even after he’s in some data bases, proving his point that being in a data base isn’t that big of a deal. Most part time recreational counters (which is all Zee has ever claimed he is) would call this being a huge success.

    Firstly, I don't believe Zee has made any money. There was a time when he talked about working at McD's. A self professed Doctor of some sort who would rather work at McD than learn to improve his blackjack game. Hmmm. What is wrong with this picture? It's BULLSHIT. That is what is wrong.

    i was on BJA for a while and understand where Zee is coming from. BJA is selling something that is much more harmful than anything the casinos are selling. BJA is selling an illusion, basically the dream of riches without much effort, and a free lifestyle without a boss. It preys on the young and naive. The reality is it’s a hard lifestyle, with a lot of travel which makes it hard to establish normal relationships.

    I agree. This is great if you need congeniality. But this game is about winning and not losing. Or not putting yourself so far in the hole that you can't get out. The reality is they failed to allow for the investment of time. It sounds as if one just follows their plan they will acquire the power to just bend casino management over the tables at will. They won't mind because they won't know. Ding. Ding. Ding. Bullshit meter goes off.

    Ive personally met a BJA member who flew out to my area. I could spot he was a BJA protege immediately by his aggressive play without cover. He got fliyered and 86d quite a bit. We stayed in touch texting, even though we lived in different parts of the country. Last I heard from him he went bust, losing about $30,000. He’s now working, trying to build up another bankroll.

    Was it my son-in-law?

    I know my one example is not representative of every BJA member. But I expect BJA has made more money for the casinos than it’s taken from the casinos, and it’s not because they’re system doesn’t work. Most young counters don’t have the bankroll or discipline to make it a full time career. And it’s not a normal way to live anyway, even if they could.

    Well put.

    Also, I wonder what the resume of these young APs look like that want to get back to a normal job. Does it say they spent several years driving around the country counting cards? I wonder how many companies value this skill set?

    I doubt they spend several years. A few months at best.

    And the advice Zee is giving is not that different from Stanford Wong. Wong said it should be done part time, and people should spend full time on something that adds more value. I think it makes sense doing it part time or as something in retirement. But does anybody really think this is a good career for a young kid? I hope not.

    BJA is not my circus. Zee is not my monkey. What the hell was he thinking when he signed up in the first place? That he'd be welcomed with open arms? Perhaps they hang on every word and close up shop? C'mon Zee.

    But I understand Colin’s position too since his business model is to sell the dream of being a pro. The last thing he needs is someone like Zee pointing out reality. It’s ironic that Colin is very critical of casinos backing counters off and yet he rountinuely backs people off his site who don’t drink the cool-aide.

    That John Denver is full of shit, man. Suppose Colin is successful. Then casinos will make it more difficult to win for the AP who works at his game and plays within casino tolerance. Or stop offering the game period. And you can compete against a machine with big breasts. More than likely, several dipshits will buy in, lose their ass, and be gone. So what's the problem? The problem is it one takes one pit boss to get twitchy during a positive run and we get a lifetime sentence.

    Someone wrote the other day they lost $80K. But won back $81K and now couldn't cash his chips. Hunting dogs that could find there own food dish if they were people with money. Please let that guy manage my financial portfolio. Geezeous.
    Last edited by Moses; March 23rd, 2019 at 03:59 PM.

  7. #22
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    Bob writes; My pet peeve is being inconsistent. Colin should quite criticizing casinos for doing what he does.

    If Colin signs up just 30 people a year at $3,000 a pop, he has $90k. That bigger issue is casino personnel. What stops them from joining his group and going to his camps? I do not think hundreds a people are running around the US making big money counting HiLO and playing shoes. Teams? Perhaps. But it doesn't matter what I think. IT's what casino are thinking that matters.

    IF one has worked their entire life and built a decent nestegg, then blackjack could allow extra income in retirement or allow someone to retire a few years early once their family is raised. I do not think God put us on this earth to play blackjack as a profession.

    There are guys I know that make $300k working 2 hours a day, over 100 days. By the end of the November to March season, they are ready for a break because the travel is so difficult. So someone can keep up this pace for years upon end? I doubt it.

    Casinos back APs for the same reason. They hurt their business. To me this makes sense, and yes I’ve been backed off and 86’d a couple times. But I will never criticize them for doing this.

    I believe I help their business far more than I hurt it. Tables sit empty because people need more than liquid courage to play green or black chip. They see me playing calm, cool, and having fun. There is an instinct that pulls some in when they normally would've walked on by. A guy lost $3k in a very short time the other day. The next guy was boasting about his great run. He was drinking and his lady was bitching. HE lost it all and then some. Went to the ATM and lost some more. They were on there way out after chowing down at the buffet. My presence drew him in. He said he didn't like to play empty tables. So that guy was worth another $5k. Somehow my $500 profit doesn't seem so bad. I'm good for business. Somebody needs to win or the dream dies. Those guys will return sooner or later and still without game. Why? They will forget about their losses or want it back. They will subliminally remember the guy who was holding the line while they lost.
    Last edited by Moses; March 24th, 2019 at 12:49 PM.

  8. #23
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    Default KJ writes:

    Bob21 is a casino industry supporter.
    Without the casino, we have no game. Unless you want to play individuals straight up. Like poker nights. Goodness knows you don't want to do that.

    Likely works for a casino or has family or friends that do. And as such has anti-AP views and positions, despite his claims that he is a recreational card counter. This claim is likely cover for his positions and views.

    Okay Bob 21. I will ask the $64,000 question. Do you work for a casino? Or not? Makes no difference to me either way. I assume everyone does, is a puppet, an idiot, or part of a cult.

    Now it is OK, for Casino personnel to participate on these forums. Some do so openly as a couple at WoV do. I respect that, even though I rarely agree with anything they post or support. Many more casino personnel and/or supporters participate less openly, as Bob21 does. There have been such members at every forum I have ever participated at. I just want to make it known who Bob21 is, and to have people take that into consideration when reading anything he posts. He is a casino guy with an agenda on these forums. Period!

    Since I took the advice of a pit boss who banned me, I've only be banned once in over 5 years. Prior to? I was getting hammered so often I felt like Madonna. I realized I was creating my own shit storm. Just like you guys are doing now on these forums.

    If anyone is casino personnel, my vote goes to Zee. No one can stir up a shit storm quite like him. Would he not be the poster boy for casinos? Guys, just shut up and play the game. So many forum monkeys, so few circuses. You should be down talking shoes like 6.5 games. IF You keep talking, promoting camps, and scaring the shit out of casinos with lies?
    All you're going to have left is 6.5 shoes.

    I ask you his question: Do you think a casino has every backed someone off for tipping? I doubt it. This is only an offense in the AP world.

    Bob, Bob, BOB. No I do not think someone was ever backed off just for not tipping. However, the old saying, "what goes around, comes around." I believe opinions are solicited and if one is treating the staff like shit and taking advantage of their good nature, they will be backed off far faster than those who are playing nice. Point being, assholes can run off good customers. Nice players can get them to contribute more. If you have to consider your tip amount in EV, you do not have game. The game of people played with cards should include tipping. Sort of like tithing in life. The forum AP world clearly plays a game of cards played by people. So they are always getting backed off, flipped off, spit at, and cussed at.


    Last edited by Moses; March 24th, 2019 at 05:14 PM.

  9. #24
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    Default Freighter

    I have no problem being the house against some players. Especially KJ and Bosox. But I will not play Freighter. For one thing, he uses Wong Halves with ASC side count. For another, he has extreme confidence in his game. This shows up in his humor and the way he carries himself with class IMO. I had to urge him to speak up when Flash was doing all his Hi Opt II bragging.

    I don't remember him ever bragging about his conquests or giving casinos bulletin board material. Personally, I'd like to see him come out of retirement, join VCT, and mop the floor with KJs ass. I've seen him do it before at BJTF. Then maybe Bosox will see who and what he is supporting. A forum queen on a congeniality mission.
    Last edited by Moses; March 28th, 2019 at 01:06 PM.

  10. #25
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    Bob, I don't even read KJs posts anymore. It's just more gay ranting from a pimple face adolescent. So, if there is something important, I figure your will let me know. Keystones boyfriend should put up, wise up, and then I will shut him up.
    But, then again, they appear to be connected at the - well, you know!

  11. #26
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    Default Bob writes to Midwest Player:

    Midwest Player, I went back and watched Holy Roller movie to see the size of their checks. At the dinner where they celebrated “closing a bank”, one guy got a $2000 check and he actually showed it to the camera. I have won $2000 in a weekend red chipping. Not often but I’ve done it more than once. And I didn’t go out and have a celebration dinner.

    That must have been some weekend. Thank you cheesouz as MP puts it.

    I expect when the church team calculated their hourly rate, they did not include the training time. Based on some of the material on BJA, I epect they trained about three months for 40 hours a week before they played in a casino. If you include the training time, the travel time and expenses, and the playing time, I expected their hourly rate was probably about what you could make part time at McDonald’s.

    Interesting observation. Not all those small towns have a McDonalds. But most in Kansas have a Subway and a Pizza Hut. Every once in awhile I will talk to some young guys from out of town in the sportsbook. They're like, wow, you live here and play whenever you want, and win enough to live on? You must be livin the dream.

    Bill Parcells once said that a win lasts about as long as it takes to walk to the end of the field and look up at the scoreboard. Once you're in that tunnel it's time to start thinking about the next game. That's about the way it works in blackjack. The Dream? I don't think so. A job? Well, it is work. Income? Pay the bills, go to some games, shows, movies, and on vacation and save even without SSI is a great tradeoff of time for money. It's sort of like being on scholarship with all the perks and comps. But a little perspective here. No one is getting rich playing blackjack. IF they are, why tell anyone else?


    And working at McDonald’s or some other part time job, they would’ve been adding value to society rather than extracting revenue from state and local governments, which rely on casinos for some of their revenue.

    You see Bob. This is why they think you're a casino spy. I doubt anyone, certainly me, would see it from this perspective. But you're probably going to start one helluva debate again. Cracks me up. Way over my head. I suppose one could argue the value McD has on society. But Sunday morning the line is backed up 10 deep for that dollar menu before church. Quarter pounder with cheese, fries, and a Dr Pep? Life doesn't get much better than that. Unless we're talking Sanchos at those Taco Grande's in KS.

  12. #27
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    Default Bosox to BJTF to VCT to earth

    Bosox writes to Bob:
    I call it the way I see it, Bob. When you join a site using a new handle and then immediately get involved in a heated discussion and slamming people without letting anyone know who the fuck you are is in my mind disgusting. The people you insult are often the same ones you compliment at other times for helping others including yourself. No problem with someone for disagreeing with anyone but slamming someone with an anomymous handle is not going to win you any future favors.

    Why is any of this an issue? However, clearly it is with you. Therefore, why are you only picking on Bob? What about KJ and Spiderman? Flash and all his puppets. Notice McAllister welcomed ZMF back as SkinnyBJplayer today. How about 21Forme and The Refinery? Don't tell me they are going under original names. If you're going to take a stand, Bosox, TAKE A STAND against all. Not just Bob and Singer.

    Whether it's the good ole boys network, the old men's clique, or the Blue Oyster Cult at BJTF. It all spells the same word. DECEPTION! The problem with this is how can one put trust in Norm's products with so much duping happening right under his nose. Norm chooses to look the other way.

    My problem? It causes me to do a helluva lot of extra work.


    Last edited by Moses; June 11th, 2019 at 03:49 PM.

  13. #28
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    Default Zee writes:

    Dbs, thanks for the support but I hate it that they are now attacking you. Be careful, there is an individual or two with obsessive personalities that get to where they get extreme.

    I wouldn't worry too much about it Bob. The only person who gets extreme is 21Forme a/k/a 21Forgay, Iggy, Snatch, Flash and probably about 10 other handles that somehow Bosox, the forum detective, missed. Iggy is the worlds biggest pussy. About all he is going to do is follow you to various websites and post under Hidden Member Name when allowed. HE is about as smart as a box of rocks and more boring than just one rock.

    Hidden Member Name; 21Forgay, Flash, Iggy writes, Skinny: All that proves is there are some people more clueless than you.

    Freighter writes: Hey, watch it buddy. The Dipshit is not clueless. He may be an asshole, he may be a douchebag, he may be a troll, he may be deceitful, he may be moronic - he is certainly a dickwad. BUT, let it never be said that the Dipshit is clueless. Further, let it never be said that I have not defended the Dipshit. Ain’t free speech wonderful!

    Freighter: With all due respect. You do realize you are writing to a spineless puppet. No?

    21Forgay; Isn't it too early in the day to be drinking?

    Never too early for Flasheroo. No?
    Last edited by Moses; June 12th, 2019 at 12:24 PM.

  14. #29
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    Bob writes:
    Freightman you really nailed it with this comeback. Good job! You got your fan club (Sharky and 21forme) to pop their head up and wave their pom poms. Now all you need is Bosox to pile on and wave his Pom poms.

    Not my circus. Not my monkey. But Freighter, consider you might be just a wee bit hard on Bob? I mean UstonZen once threatened to strangle you. Bob just likes to debate. Seems to me, FWIW, he is now trying to give you your due respect. AND you certainly don't need queer lovers (Bosox and 21forgay) in your corner. No?

    As I said earlier in this thread. Freighter is a mountain of knowledge and a fountain of sounds advice to those willing to listen. Maybe Bob took heed to these words?

    Again, I don't have all the facts, so consider my suggestion as a token of what it is worth which may well be nothing.

    Could Counting is Fun be KJ? Sounds like a name he'd come up with and he's not posting anywhere else. Just saying I doubt he can give up his addiction that easily.

    One of the many beliefs within the AP community that has never made sense to me is the belief that if casinos just let APs take more money from them, they would make more money. Common sense should tell you this makes no sense.

    Casinos certainly don't need APs to survive. However, take away the dream and you take away the majority of players - who really can't play the game. Freighta is a playa!
    Last edited by Moses; June 15th, 2019 at 10:49 AM.

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    21Forme writes:
    Idiots like Bob thrive on the attention he gets. If you stopped responding to him, he'd fade away. Don't be the schmendrik who keeps getting sucked in.

    Wrong again rabbit ass. You're the one who chases Zee from forum to forum. I didn't exactly go away now did I? You've only proved you're to simple minded to respond, too much of a pussy to ever back up your words, and really just a big nothing with no life. Only two line sentences you think is impressive. It's NOT you sick fuck!

    Suggestion Bob. Just stop posting at BJTF. That is what everyone wants. No? Guaranteed 21 ForGay won't keep his mouth shut about you. So then go back after him.
    But if you wait until you're banned, you can't go back. You're ban is coming. The trap is being set. BJTF isn't about blackjack. It's a good ole boys club with dipshits like 21forgay who can't muster more than 2 sentences. Hell, he cant even chew meat or find the front door to his own house.

    LET the puppets talk amongst themselves. See how long that lasts.

    Last edited by Moses; June 17th, 2019 at 09:22 AM.

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