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Thread: Money Talks? More like BS walks!

  1. #1
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    Default Money Talks? More like BS walks!

    These threads about earnings are ridiculous and belong in the Disadvantage Forum. They serve no purpose and are utter nonsense. IF anything, all you are doing is blowing your own horn and firing up our opponent who works for a living. STOP IT!

    I sat and listened to the (self professed)greateast handicapper in the world for an hour the other day. OF course, his bank account wouldn't carry him from Reno to Elko.

    Pick a number. For some it's too low and others it's too high and impossible. The intersection of Perception and Deception. You get out what you put in...and THAT'S your bottom line.

    Skeptics and Cheerleaders. In the of words Freighter, "makes me want to puke."
    Last edited by Moses; September 28th, 2018 at 07:49 AM.

  2. #2
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    Default BS. Beyond Stupid

    I disagree, Bosox. IMO, Zee's post above is the best post he's ever made.

    He explains his motivations and why he does what he does. This is the antithesis of his usual dogmatic posts saying "OSN doesn't matter, playing rated doesn't matter, books don't matter, etc."

    He should include this "disclaimer" in every future post he makes, so everyone is reminded of why he plays as he does (which will lessen the ridicule he gets), and that the style shouldn't be emulated by anyone who considers him/herself an AP.

    21 Forme writes ^:


    Moses replies: 21 forme and Zee give a new meaning to BS. Basic Strategy, Bull shit, and they are Beyond Stupid. Zee, an elderly doctor, self professed addict, in the midwest who gave up his practice for pennies in blackjack. Not only do you read his daily rants of bullshit? But you respond which is an indicator you are buying his crap and then you "think" you can change him. He loves all the attention just like some guy aimless muttering to himself on the street.

    21 Forme. I will nickname "MG." I mean it's pretty clear who you are. No? Get over your fetish, man crush, or whatever you want to call it. Put Zee on ignore and leave him there. If everyone did this? Problem solved. But you are like that little car MG that was popular in the 70s. Problem was they kept flipping over which is exactly what you are doing. Stop will all the different handles trying to make yourself sound like a big shot. It's clear, you are not. You need to think about keeping the "cheese on your own damn cracker" and stop worrying about Zee.





  3. #3
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    LMFAO....perhaps you and 'the dipshit' should write a book....he on his 'fixed demand' theories, and you on this nonsense

    GOOD LUCK!!!!

    Sharky writes:

    Moses replies: I couldn't agree more Sharky. The long run? Well, consider Zee is 70. How long can his run be? Then we have his rival MG who sits home a doesn't play at all. Yes, crucial info coming from THE top notch blackjack forum.

    The are two sides. One says you don't have to do a damn thing. The other says you must always play perfectly and never miss a threshold. Neither could be further from the truth.

    Actually, the game is developed at home and executed in the casino. These idiots trying to improve their game from playing in a casino will never reach any substantial long term or short term profit. It's vital to know the difference between a threshold and an advantage because THAT is how you fly under the radar. All the rest is BS. You can't win if they don't let you play or provide a fair game.

    Since Sharky is a sports bettor, he understands the value in finding the best plays. But in pitch blackjack games you have to play all the games. So minimize the thresolds and mazimize the advatanges. Those that don't or can't? Please, no more stories about all your riches being made playing blackjack. OR any for that matter. You're only fucking things up for those who can.


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    T3, I understood what you are saying. In many ways, there are no absolutes. 4+ years into playing BJ, I learn just as much about BJ as I did about myself. I adopted my style of playing to make and keep me happy. I learned that to sleep well, give my kid and my spouse my happiness, I had to have some left after my BJ sessions and trips. Thus, at some stAge where I am winding up my session or my BJ trip, I go into the protect my win mode.

    I have to adapt the game to my personality and my goals. Your goals may be different. It's who we are, why we play and what makes us happy that counts. Unfortunately, judgemental people don't understand, get threatened by anyone suggesting that you can still win, albeit not as much, by playing differently than they do.

    Zee writes:

    Moses replies; Zee, you are searching for peace of mind by playing a game the will take a piece of your mind if you're not careful. Yes, adapting the game to your personality and goals is important. But this is a game of people played with cards. So it's vital you adapt your game to your opponents idiosyncracies and restrictions. What's pissing folks off on the forum is your work ethic is putrid. You want someone to do the work for you. Don't you get it? Finding your own answers and arriving your own conclusions is what leads to success.

    If you choose to play a half assed game? Hence, walking away from a high TC because you're money ahead is up to you. But don't try to shove that shit back up another APs ass. It doesn't work that way. LOSERS see the game only from a won or lost perspective. Putting yourself in the best possible position to win is ALWAYS the answer. Then you never have to worry about losing. But your walking away from opportunites others sit down to reach. It's insulting because you walk away from the primary reason to play the game in the first place...and then brag about it.

    I'd be shocked if you've made a dime in 4 years. Protect your win mode is horse shit because there is the "how the fuck is this happening mode" as well. You're not always up. The game can be very cruel. If not, everyone would play with the "protect my mode" attitude.
    Last edited by Moses; September 29th, 2018 at 11:42 AM.

  5. #5
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    Nice comments Bosox. Nuf said.

    Consider this real life circumstance and then compare to what many have been doing with Zee for years now.

    A friend of mine is a very generous guy. Especially, to those less fortunate. A guy walks up to him around 6pm and is hungry and tapioca. That's another word for being tapped out or broke or without funds. Skip gives him a $20 and a coupon for a free buffet.

    The guy comes up again around 9pm, still hungry and broke. Skip asks, "what happened to the $20 and free buffet coupon." The guy responds, "well, I blew the $20 on a slot machine and now the buffet is closed." Skips response could be heard from across the room "if you're that DAMN STUPID - YOU'RE Fa--fa-FUCKED." Thought I was going to bust a gut as did some of the other guys.

    Zee - Buffet closed! In other words, like with Skip, there was no purpose to continue the converation. No?

    Now, every time I see Skip, I jab and joke with him by asking for a twenty and a food cou. We laugh. But, as Skip says "I'm not sure who is the bigger fool - him or me?

  6. #6
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    I am healthier with diminishing the stress that can come with being an AP.
    Zee writes:

    Moses replies; So, let's suppose you walk away from a 2x$250 bet at TC +5 so you can go home up $250 after playing/being gone for 3 to 5 days. Now, you go on your next 3 to 5 day trip and variance takes you down $500 and you can't seem to get a TC +5 opportunity, so you start chasing 2 $250s at TC 2+. Hence, you're counting on cards to do what you need them to do instead of counting cards to do what you 'should know" needs to be done.

    You got it backwards Zee. AP reduces stress. That's why we study...to hit more often and harder and duck so we don't get hit as often. Again, AP's are not on you because of their troubles at the tables. Rather they are frustrated by your lack of initiative. Clearly, you have entitlement issues. Stealing candy from Walmart and then getting upset because they request you stop? C'MON MAAAAAN.
    Last edited by Moses; September 29th, 2018 at 07:45 PM.

  7. #7
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    I don't practice, never used software, don't know much.

    Since the primary goal is to enjoy my retirement, there is not much point in going home from a casino or a trip having lost. I trade off big wins for the contentment I feel having a small win.

    Zee writes:

    Moses replies: What? You never have big losses? You just show up at a DD table with Hilo, play with a bunch of ploppies, always get ahead, and then stay ahead until your trip is over. What a load of crap!!!

    Of course, T3 once killed a grizzly bear with a 22 rifle. But he kicked the bears ass first to wear him down. You guys are unbelievably guillible. Why even reply to such utter nonsense? Crap! Now I'm doing it.

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    I’ve often said that everyone’s brain is wired differently.

    Freighter writes:


    Moses replies: Truest statement on the forums. Also, perhaps the biggest under statement. IF one ventures away from Wong Halves, then the alernative is either to buy into Peter Griffins theories on BC, PE, IC or Don S fine work on SCORE. The latter is the best answer based on my research for pitch games.

    You can make the 8 and 2 slient which doesn't change SCORE much in either direction. Most base a count on the importance of the dealer breaking. However, the player must make their final move before the dealer makes his first move. So I based my count on the importance of what I'm going to do. The 5 is the highest value card in Wong Halves. However, from a SCORE standpoint the 6 and 7 are pretty damned important as well.

    Giving the same tag to the 6 reduces my large situations of deciding how to play a 15 or 16 vs 10. Everyone knows to bet when the deck is rich in 10s. But what about the little cards that still remain? Simple math says I have a far better chance to improve a 12,13, or 14 than a 15 or 16. DBS talks about doing some half assed side count of the 2,3s. However, if he simply assigned 1.5 tags to the 5 and 6? Problem solved. No? Sims and SCORE proves my point.
    Last edited by Moses; October 3rd, 2018 at 12:27 PM.

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    Everyone is so damned concerned about moving bets with the count, an$ accordingly, looking so robotic.Evaluate your own bankroll specifics, and consider various strategies pertaining to different situations.

    Freighter writes:

    Moses replies: IF you're going to to this? Wong Halves for shoes. Switch the tags for the 3 and the 7 in pitch games. IF not? Same thing applies.

    BJTF exerts Zee and Midwest Player zooming three hours just to get to a table. 21forme stuck in his own shoes in AC is key advisor? Pathetic! Think outside the box a wee bit fella's. IT's not rocket science. The confusion at BJTF just makes it seem that way.

    Get to a place where you can play YOUR game. Not place their game because of travel or addiction.

    Also Freighter, a column count doesn't necessarily move with the count. There are large TCs you will strategically avoid and thus not look robotic. The robots are betting too frequently on low TCs and losing their asses on a cold streak or getting caught on a hot streak. Or worse, walking away from a high TC because they made a small profit. Shrewd!

  10. #10
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    Default Tarzan; Deck Estimation

    Once the RC/TC becomes negative, all counts behave the same, you are placing a minimum bet. Once the TC becomes around +5 or greater, all counts behave the same and you are putting a max bet out there. If you use several different counts in a side by side in comparison, you will notice where it all varies in terms of units wagered is between TC+2 and TC+5. I did an interesting experiment with this, slowly and meticulously using several methods simultaneously, noting the results and comparing just how far off from one another they can get, how many units were going out using the same bet spread. If one method estimates TC+2 and the other estimates TC+4, very different wagers are placed, but if one method estimates TC+7 and the other TC+9, either method is placing whatever their max bet is.


    Tarzan writes:


    Moses replies: There are 3 percentage stops that will always be exact. 57.14%. 60%. and 66.67%. Your 3 column count which reduces the smallest column to 0 would probably have a formula to figure it out. With or without the Ace it always works out to one of these acceleration points. Of course 50% would be a 4th point, but as you said, that is in the minimum bet area. You can also reverse for those nasty minimum bet decisions.

    Gronbog is familier with my column/percentage count. He might be able to give you a formula for conversion.




    Last edited by Moses; October 9th, 2018 at 11:43 AM.

  11. #11
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    Default Good point Freighter

    I have a feeling that T3 and Bubbles have different meanings. That being said, strike points may be defined as the point at which EV equals and exceeds 50%. To do so prematurely is minus EV.

    Freigher writes ^:

    Moses replies: Well said Freighter. I refer to this as acceleration points. From a percentage standpoint, the count of good vs bad will always reach a point of 50%, 57.14%, 60%, 66.67% at any point in the deck. Of course, you can reverse it in a nagative deck to 42.86%, 40%, and 33.3%. The game takes on a different connotation at each one of these points. Now the rest of the world does this same application with True Count.

    My experience is to blur the acceleration points or react prematurely will have an adverse affect on EV. For instance, at 57.14% it's best to play one hand to set up the two hand bet at 60%. Failure to do so, may not only result in loss, but negate the opportunity for a two bet at a better value fo 60%. At 66.67%, one bets max. But you have to be willing to insure all.

  12. #12
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    Always enjoy reading your posts Bosox. You are a great summary writer. Post #34 What constitutes full or part time play. What a ridiculous thread!

    Nice serve Norm. Back at you.

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