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Thread: Quality of hands vs Quality of hours

  1. #31
    Join Date
    Sep 2017

    Default Bosox Questions

    Single deck bj games has some of the highest SCORES available when compared with other games, BUT, how long can you continue play after showing your max bet?
    Everything I do is predicated on game selection and sessions. My max bets run about 6% frequency. So it's not a big deal. There is only 3 categories Minimum, Max, Super Max which is rare.

    You cannot play if they wont let you.
    Thus casino tolerance must be the #1 priority.

    Do many established card counters come to play in your area? If not WHY?
    Get in, get paid, get out. I don't spend time in the blackjack area. I'm play straight up. Thus do not have other players around me. I saw one guy once that I thought was damn good. But other than that, I give little attention to what others are doing. One guy came out from the east coast and another from the bay area. Those are the only two I've ever discussed the game with in person.

    In your post #35 I saw between the lines a lot of truth and frustration coming through and that is a real good thing.
    I'm very happy with my return on my time/financial investment. Anything above 0 my opponent wouldn't like. Anything above $100K you wouldn't believe. Anything below $50K would be considered poultry. So I don't worry about all that. I simply play game, my way, almost everyday.

    Christ you very well may have more skill and knowledge pertaining to single deck blackjack than anyone else in the country right now, but will they let you play"betting correlation"? I would hope so. No one works harder, studies more, and employs as disciplined game selection as me. I'd taken two great HoFer's and combined into one system that maybe two people, other than me, understand.

    Years ago I said on Norm's site that you were likely playing with some of the highest SCORES compared to almost all others on the board, BUT, possibly one of the lowest earners,I wasn't joking, and that says a lot.
    My competitor isn't someone's profound proclamations of income, on a forum, who I never met, on the East Coast. I will NOT play red chip and very selective when I play black. How would you know what I earn? How would you know what others earn?

    Win today. Play tomorrow.

    Won Yesterday. Playing today. Life is GooooD.

    Last edited by Moses; February 28th, 2019 at 11:24 AM.

  2. #32
    Join Date
    Sep 2017


    DBS writes:
    Hereís a true story most probably wonít believe. I was at one of my local casinos where I know everybody and of course play rated, and my card flew off the table as the dealer was dealing it. Anybody who has played pitch games knows this happens fairly often. The pit boss was close by and said straight faced, ďĒdbs, thatís all right Iíll get it, so you can keep countingĒ. I was on first base. He then bent down and picked up my card off the floor and put it on the table. I chuckled a little and acted like I didnít know what he was talking about, played a little more, and left.

    He was making a joke but at the same time letting me know he knew I was counting and he didnít care. Why? Probably because I was playing within casino tolerance, tipping and everybody there likes me. I get free rooms and all my meals are comped when Iím there. And I only play bj. So people who say you wonít get many comps playing bj thatís simply not true in my area.

    With this said, now when I go to that casinos, which I do most weeks, I donít play bj in his pit or on his shift. I donít want to push my luck, and I donít think most of the other pit bosses know I count, but who knows maybe they do. At any rate, Iím still allowed to play there and this happened a couple years ago.

    Try not verbalizing. I saw two 3s, one 2, three 5s, and that's a 4 on the floor. Maybe then they won't know you're counting.

  3. #33
    Join Date
    Sep 2017


    Bosox writes: Go ahead dbs and get everything that you need out of Moses while the getting is good. Then when you have all the info that you want, then you can lay low for the right moment when he is not looking and rip out a pound of flesh from him like you are accostomed to doing, and follow up with I thought you were completely stupid on that one Moses, after all we cannot agree on everything. Besides you did not know it was me anyway for a whole two months as I was using an alias, hoping not to upset you.

    Bulb loves to debate. I'm starting to like the furly sqwucker a wee bit. But trust has not yet it my radar. So with that? Y'all get my pigeon story.

    You don't need a machine gun just because a hundred pigeons are shitting on the roof of your house. However, a BB gun isn't going to help solve the problem either. Shooting a rifle is illegal within city limits as well. So, you buy a pellet gun that has the impact of a .22 rifle. Then, you shoot the filthy bastards right between the eyes. I think the total was 66 bagged and 1 drive by for the smartest one.

    Hence, you don't need a high powered difficult count to navigate Bulb's game. However, HiLO isn't going to give him much of an advantage as well. So, switching the 2 and 7 increases his SCORE. Adding 1/2 point to the 5 and -1/2 to 9 increase it a lot more. Shooting your local casinos right between the eyes will make you non existent or a travelling blackjack player.

    I hope sharing some of my work helped him out a little. Clearly, he has many questions. Thus is not totally sold on HiLO. But if I didn't or he doesn't take my advice? I mean really WTF do I care? I'm not going to go jump off a bridge over it.

    Last edited by Moses; March 14th, 2019 at 12:52 PM.

  4. #34
    Join Date
    Sep 2017


    Why is it the clowns that want to side count or otherwise incorporate the "7" into their count, always throw up the example of a rather obscure hand of 14 vs dealer 10. One particular hand, of very low frequency, knowing that there is a tremendous disparage in the number of 7's depleted, might make the very slightest bit of difference. This would amount to a penny an hour. And the mistakes made, even a single mistake, would cost 100 times that. And when you start assigning half values you are assured to make mistakes.

    I mean what is next, are you going to side count "8's" which have even less value and effect of removal of almost zero, because occasionally, you get a hand of 13 vs dealer 10 and knowing there are "extra" 8's might mean, a extra penny every 8 hours?

    You guys are freaking retarded (no offense to the mentally challenged}. This stuff has all been settled by the top blackjack mathematicians, and confirmed by computer simulations. There is diminishing returns at play. VERY diminishing returns. I don't know why you pro-count people want to go back and re-argue concepts that were settled in the 80's. These things had little value then with better games, and even less now, with worse games.

    KJ writes:

    It is not a side count. It is a realignment of the 2-7s. Why is it you think the 2 is so vital? Obviously you don't run sims and have no knowledge of the frequency of the 14 vs 10. Or give any credence to SCORE whatsoever. Do the math dip shit. Run the SIMS. Or play your damn 2. I don't care.

    KJ is the one losing money and refusing to play me or let me be the house against him. So every newbie in the world. Please take KJ's advice. He's an AP and a PRO. Don't believe me? Just ask him...he will tell you. Man, will he tell. He is also the biggest queer, coward, and liar that ever walked the face of the earth.

    So now he resorts to ableism to prove a blackjack point. Please cyber police. Allow someone to bust this guy in the mouth. Maybe then he will stop coming in and bothering you all.

    Last edited by Moses; March 14th, 2019 at 10:16 PM.

  5. #35
    Join Date
    Sep 2017

    Default Bosox needs help

    If that story is so far fetched to you Alan, How do you explain Moses flying under the radar? While playing single deck Blackjack in Reno for over a decade with a rotation of only 5 casinos, is that story not bizarre to you Allan?

    Okay Bosox. I will write slowly so you get it this time. This is a game of people played with cards. I play within casino tolerance. Typically, 20 sessions a week. Mostly green. Some black. Never Red.

    That is a visit to each casino 4 times week on 2 different shifts. So they see me twice a week. They see KJ once a week in his example. The difference is I'm not pushing them to the limits. A session winning percentage of 60% is 12-8. However, there are ties and interruptions. But I'm always playing my game. Not a game dictated by other circumstances. The game fun as it's supposed to be. Not some serious life or death matter chasing the almighty EV as you make it out to be.

    So the idea is to win 4 more sessions than I lose each week. Yes, there is a figure that constitutes a net win and a net loss. No, I'm not quoting figures because 1.) it's no ones business 2.) You have a reading comprehension disorder. 3.) I don't want to hear from you about it 5 years from now. Like you do on other matters. 4.) I'm not putting in out there for casinos to see or other players to employ.

    My cost of living is very low since all bills are paid and assets are still plentiful. So I'm able to play for fun...and profit.

    Yes. It is bizarre.
    Quite frankly if you see someone three times there's a high chance you'll recognize them again. This is one of the principles of advertising. There is a certain tipping point when something registers. In TV, a visual medium, it's three times. In radio, it's 8 times.

    Of course they recognize me. I have nothing to hide because I play within casino tolerance. To my fault, I don't always recognize them. A lady was talking to me in the post office the other day. She said she has dealt to me many times. I couldn't place her. I think she felt bad that I didn't recognize her. It's called a zone. Non athletes wouldn't understand.

    A couple came up to me in the paint department at Home Depot and started chatting away. They were both dealers. Finally, I remembered them next time I saw them in their casino. I don't think even other employees know they are married. I helped a pit boss jump start his car one night. Let another go in front of me in heavy traffic coming out of his bank. I see another regularly on my walks when he his playing catch with his grandkids in the backyard. Another at the grocery store buying the same snacks as me. Those little things matter in a game of people played with cards.

    Another PB is funny as hell. Makes me wonder if he is Bob. Another PB is always smiling and very cordial. Time to worry is when he tugs at his collar and stops smiling.

    Last edited by Moses; March 28th, 2019 at 08:56 AM.

  6. #36
    Join Date
    Sep 2017

    Default Good point JBJB

    To get this back on track, nobody is spying on or ratting out ZK. Backcounters are painfully obvious!

    Exactly. Which is why KJ is not getting in 100K quality hands. He spends so much time on so many forums he probably isn't even getting in 10K hands. And when he does play, he is so frazzled he loses $29K. Someone counting two tables would be even more obvious. But please, we need more advice from Mr. GED educated KJ and less from JBJB who actually knows what he is talking about.

  7. #37
    Join Date
    Sep 2017

    Default Bob 21 writes;

    Bob: You'd mentioned improving your single and double deck game by side counting 7s and As.

    My objective is to assign tag values which I believe will provide the best return for the least amount of effort and most importantly, remain within casino tolerance.

    T3 has some interesting observations regarding Bins which I never did fully understand. However, to my own way of thinking, it is a strong consideration in the assignment of tag values. As I've grown in my knowledge, I'd like to have another conversation with him about bins. But he seems to have dropped of the face of the earth.

    The one thing about getting to the point where I'm at is there are few to converse with to gather opinions.

    I will have it figured out soon. But it would be nice to bounce some ideas off others who have studied the game in depth.

  8. #38
    Join Date
    Sep 2017


    G Man writes:
    I find it funny everytime I read some "I will show you how cool real pros are" that likes to show himself as the cool guy that is "mentally prepared for Blackjack". He can lose 20% of is bankroll in a single night and stay totally cool as if nothing happened. Great! I've been on $20K bankroll and on $1 million bankroll with everything in between and you know what? I HATE LOSING. I'm not going crazy or lose my temper or concentration, BUT I HATE LOSING. And you know one other thing? I can't stand a fucking "cool" moron on any of my team if he acts like nothing happened when he lose 20% of our investors money. This kind of "cool" is BULLSHIT

    Good post. Of course these cool headed morons seem to have several puppets in order to serve as forum icons. The game is designed to piss a person off.
    Pretending it doesn't exist simply isn't practical. They lose $20K in a night without flinching, yet go berserk when someone disagrees with them on a forum. What is wrong with this picture? Emotion is part of the game. Handling it is the key. Not handling it is to pretend it doesn't exist. I get pissed off at Verite for chissake.

    I noticed you're not following the crowd which results in Not Helpfuls. How childish!

  9. #39
    Join Date
    Sep 2017


    Gman writes:
    hitthat16, it's not a thread about losing, it's a thread about a miscalculation of EV and SD... However, posters like you and a hundred more on this side can make a simple thread that deserves 2-3 good answers turn into a 10 pages thread. Go back to first post by jacquesblack and try to answer... This is as simple as that! We don't need to know that you lost $15K in a session, we don't need to read about how cool ShipTheCookies is when he loses $10 or $1000

    Hitthat16 always seemed to be a pretty good ole boy from his posts. But who the hell wants to read about losing. For one thing, it's depressing as hell. For another, as Steve Prefontaine quotes "never let a losing mentality creep in." Then again, who really wants to reading about others winnings and good fortune. I mean there are pit bosses who read these forums that are so uptight that they be hanging on to a ceiling fan at the sound of a loud fart. Why set them off?

    So what does that leave? How to win would be nice. How to save time and win is crucial. Yes, the goal is obviously to win an amount worthwhile. The question is how much and how quickly can it be done. Time is the key element. Too much time spent and they know what a successful is doing. Money comes and goes as the markets and tables flows. But history proves, sooner or later, we all run out of time. So, do you want to spend all your time chasing money? Hence, some go on vacation to play blackjack. I play blackjack to go on vacation.
    Last edited by Moses; April 27th, 2019 at 03:31 PM.

  10. #40
    Join Date
    Sep 2017

    Default Midwest Player Story:

    Now here is a little story for you. Our local casinos are pretty dead this time of year. I'm often the first one to open a table, and almost all the time my presence will draw in other players. They could go to the next table that is empty, but no, they sit at my table because they don't like to play alone and promptly lose their money. If the table was empty there is a good chance they would not even play. Also I always have a lot of chips in front of me. At least $300 in chips so it looks like I'm winning even if I'm not (This is probably a bad thing as it draws in other players which I don't want to do, but I need working capital). I've had players comment at the table "don't you ever lose". If I can do it they want to try also.

    That's always been my narrative. If I wasn't sitting at a $25 table making my little $500, I doubt the others would've stop by and lost their $3K to $5K. So it's a win win. People who have no game whatsoever or never played would rather sit next to me at a $25 table than with others or alone and a $5 table. People do things they don't even realize out of confusion and bewilderment. One guy moved from a 3.2 table playing solo to a 6.5 full table because he thought it might change his luck.

    Bob, I can't understand why you continue to harp on advantage blackjack players being bad for casinos.

    Matthew 23.12; Also, loose lips sink ships. It's the illusion. Look at how the rules have worsened over the years. Okay, Midwest Player is a pit boss in his mid 30s with a wife who is expecting and two children at home. Some guy comes in and nails the casino for $10k on your watch. Your boss says, "MP you've got to watch that a little closer." Next day a guy comes in a nails them for $5k on your watch. Boss says, "dammit MP that's two days in a row on your watch." Next day a team comes in and clips you for $20K. Boss says "cheesouz, MP get you head out of your ass, we are going to put you on as a dealer, reduce your pay, and give Sally your spot in the pit." Now, 6 month later, you get your old job back with the ultimatum that if it happens again, you'll either be looking for work or dealing on a permanent basis in a casino where those fuckers that put you there in the first place? Never tip.

    Hey, even the nicest guy in the world would do some AP head hunting after all that. Point is, be humble about your wins and don't cry about your losses and maybe, just maybe we have a chance not to have rules worsened and pit anxiety heightened.
    Last edited by Moses; April 28th, 2019 at 03:52 PM.

  11. #41
    Join Date
    Sep 2017

    Default Don S

    Bosox writes:
    I believe Moses has the copyrights or Trademark to the following statement:

    Blackjack is a game of people played with cards."

    It's right up there with:

    Do not play blackjack unless you know the SCORE by Don S. Don, I hope you can take a joke?

    Certainly can. Just don't know how comfortable I am finding myself in the same post, being compared to Moses! :-)


    It's a business just like anything else Don. For instance, you probably should consider writing a financial newsletter to add to your repertoire. I bet you'd be good at it and it would be educational and interesting for your readers. I did it back in the 90s. But it was a matter of what to leave in and what to take out in order to streamline my time to make the most money.

    In biz or in sales, it often felt like a losing month. But in the end it was a winner. I always figured getting 30% of my sales was really all I could handle anyway. But that meant either losing or turning down 70%. Quite often, it was better to pass up a buyer that was going to be too high maintenance and too low of a profit.

    It's sort of the same thing in blackjack. Winning 60% of the sessions means losing 40%. I play 20 sessions per week because that is all the time I choose to invest. For one thing, if the ax ever does drop from my remaining places, then I'd best have some other interests. For another, I'd hate to think I spent my life staring at felt as many of these variance chasers. Sometimes I play less, if I'm 4 sessions up, I might quit for the week, just to piss off Bosox.

    The old posts between Don S and T3 helped me to separate thresholds from advantages. More importantly, advantages that don't get me tossed. Mainly, casino employees are hard working folks trying to raise kids and support a family or some wise old pit bosses that maybe don't want to retire. The bottom line is to treat them all with respect and avoid the ones who don't like you or take their job very serious and will ban you even if they do like you. After that, the game is fun and profitable for me the dealer and the casino.

    In business, I was more worried about my cost of doing business than my profit. IF I treat the consumer right they became my best sales force from referrals.
    So the profits/sales took care of themselves. I probably did leave too much profit on the table. But I was never wanting for something to do.

    In blackjack, my cost of doing biz is actually in the black. The biggest challenge is finding my game without getting too bored. So I try to do the same things as when I'm at home, only better. Use the spas, weight rooms, pool, walk, throw some workout clothes in the car, and go shoot hoops during the day.

    But it is always about WINNING in a casino and NEVER was about a congeniality contest on a forum. What you see is what you get!

    21 fortards writes: Depends if it's Moses, the mountain climber, or moses, the delusional pretend BJ player who talks to himself.

    Why don't you take a week or two vacation and come play me for black chips? Then, you'll know. Otherwise, you're just another has been, former wannabe, running his mouth, and with dense two sentence posts in defense of your little queer boyfriend. No? You probably don't have the funds to get from New York to New Jersey.
    Last edited by Moses; June 6th, 2019 at 01:12 PM.

  12. #42
    Join Date
    Sep 2017

    Default Interesting Post;

    This is exactly why I dont bother to even learn to COUNT!


    You can be the best card counter in the world and still LOSE! You can put the max bet out if the count is HEAVILY in your favor and still get shit cards just like what happened to the OP here.... nothing can prevent the other people at your table OR the dealer getting the 10-10!

    I will play you single deck straight up - green or black chip.

    That's why I dont bother to learn counting.

    I agree to a certain point if you're playing shoes with people. But straight up is not about winning all the big bets. It's about putting yourself in position to win. Screw the thresholds, it's the advantages that put you in a position of power. If you do that, the dollars will take care of themselves.

    But... having said this I do everything but count and am actually up LIFETIME and have won and finished very high in many Blackjack tournaments all over the nation due to the strong Progression I play with 4-loss quit-point! Of course flawless BS is what I do as well as offensive/defensive interaction *and* I have fun playing the game and dont have to WORK by unnecessarily stressing and counting every single card that comes out only to lose my ass like many other counters have!

    Counting isn't stressful. Losing and not understanding why is a pain in the ass though.

    Freighter writes; I see yellow in the future of this thread, and deservedly so!

    One thing that pisses me off is when I've worked my ass off at the tables for the day and then someone says they won $200 in 20 minutes with a progressive system and start comparing that to the hourly rates of Doctors and Lawyers. So I ask "why only play 20 minutes"? Why not two hours? They would've made $1,200.
    Well, why did you stop playing? They thought they might lose it back.
    Last edited by Moses; June 11th, 2019 at 09:38 PM.

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