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Thread: Quality of hands vs Quality of hours

  1. #16
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    Yes, a better counting system will somewhat help, which is what you’re suggesting, but sometimes losing streaks happen. Being robotic or not with betting will not get you out of losing streaks. That was really my only point.

    DBS writes ^:

    Moses replies: Let's be clear here. You're talking pitch games. At least for today. I am the ultimate robot. But my count is unrobotic. Therefore, I'm betting into the best possible deck compositions and avoiding the worst. This is exactly why KJ thinks he is being cheated by a shuffling machine. He is too stubborn to do the extra work required to WIN. So he raises a big stink and get the machines changed out and now gets 6.5. Shrewd!

    DBS has already shit in his own Cornflakes. Therefore, find your own happy medium.

    Losing streaks reduce with the proper selection of games and playing quality hands. Not quantity. If it's quantity you seek? Then you're in for one helluva roller coaster ride.

    The best stuff is always posted in the subscription forum. These were in the "Advanced Strategies, Theories and Math" forum.
    T3 writes ^:

    Moses replies: You get no argument from me. But don't oversell it PLEASE. Norm really should raise his price...at least double. Bring in the good. Keep out the bad.


    Last edited by Moses; July 31st, 2018 at 11:35 AM.

  2. #17
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    At least for me, it hit home since I only play pitch games and have thought about moving past Hilo. Currently, as some know, I have a hybrid approach where I use Hilo but also side count aces and sometimes 7s and then make adjustments to Hilo. Also, even though I don’t use a level 2 count, I keep a mental note if I’ve seen more 4 or 5s compared to 2 and 3s and make adjustments in my betting. With all this said, I have thought about moving up to a true ace neutral count. It would probably be hi opt 1 since I think hi opt 2 will be too taxing for me based on my objectives, which is to enjoy my time while I’m in the casino but still win some money. Hilo is like riding a bicycle. I can easily carry on conservations while I’m doing it.

    DBS writes:

    Moses replies: Hilo in a pitch game is like taking a pair of tweasers to a knife fight. Mental notes are for panzies. Either you KNOW or you DONT KNOW. Plus keeping 23s and 45s separate is wasted energy.

    Gramazeka recommends;
    Card tags 2-A:
    2,2,2,2,2,1,0,-1,-2,-2.

    Moses replies: Switch the value of the 7 and the 2. Add 14v10 to your Ill 18. Now if you and Zee could just do this? Imagine, a final ending to the great count debate.



    Last edited by Moses; August 6th, 2018 at 09:58 AM.

  3. #18
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    Default Dumb shit stuff

    When the dealer is slow and I get bored, I find better things to do...check out the hostesses, ploppies, fantasize...
    Zee writes ^:

    Moses replies: Ask stupid questions on the forum? Push a little harder. Win more. Bored less.

    For what it’s worth, this is what I do for keeping side counts. I mostly use chips.
    DBS writes ^:

    Moses replies: Horrible advice. Zee and DBS. Dumb and Dumber.

    They are very disorganized in front of me. I do this on purpose and I am constantly playing with them so surveillance would never know what I’m doing if they were watching me. I use one stack for aces and another for sevens, while I keep the Hilo count in my head. I’ve found just moving a couple chips off center on the top of a pile helps me keep track of 7s and aces.
    DBS writes ^:

    Moses replies: Ding Ding Ding Ding. DBS wins the bullshit prize for this thread.

    Thanks for the link Gramazeka. I need to spend some more time going through all the threads but this looks like something I could add to what I’m doing. I’d like to stay with a simple count like Hilo but I’m always looking for little things I can add to it. I know it doesn’t get me much, but it does hurt anything either.

    Moses replies: Start by running a sim. on Gramazeka's advice. You will see the leap in SCORE. Next, keep Insurance side count. (Check th box) You will see another leap in SCORE. Switch the 2 and 7 tag values. A 14v10 to your indices. You will see another leap in SCORE.

    Then light a match and throw it on Hilo for your final addition. IF you keep adding to a simple count. Very soon, it's not so simple. You didn't increase your effectiveness. Just your brain load. Be a shrewd playing thinker. Not a forum writing stinker. Like KJ.
    Last edited by Moses; August 6th, 2018 at 11:09 AM.

  4. #19
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    Freighter uses a level 3 count. Sims can be beat by gathering more information and using it in a way the sims can't.
    T3 writes ^:

    Moses replies: I AGREE T3. However, history proves severe brain cramps occur with the majority of posters if one goes beyond what can be done outside a sim.

    Freighter makes the most efficient moves and leaps in SCORE within the confines of a sim. Level "3" sounds like such a monumental task. All you are really doing is counting the 5 at 1.5. Big whoppee!

    Increase SCORE significantly on pitch games by:

    1.) Check box for Insurance side count

    2.) Gramazeka advice above

    3.) Switch the 2 and the 7 tag values Add 14v10 to ill 18.

    4.) Freighter advice Wong Halves

    5.) Drop the 2 to 0; up the 7 to 1; Even simpler method because you drop from 4 tags with 1/2 points to 2. Add 14v10 to ill 18.

    6.) Increase SCORE slighly from #5 by switching to tag value of the 3 and the 7. Is it worth it? Depends on your ability to count.

    Take it from someone who has ran all the sims with various tag values for pitch games. Items #6 is a good as you can get without going to a column count.

  5. #20
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    Default Rule of 11 in double deck

    Rule of 11 is a basic way to determine whether or not a DD game (based on penetration) is "acceptable" to play. Take 11 and subtract the number of players that are at the table, and that will tell you what cut you need to make that game playable. The more people sitting at the table, the better the cut will need to be to make the game worth playing.

    11 - 1 player = 10 (1.0 cut)
    11 - 4 players = 7 (.7 cut)
    11 - 2 players = 9 (.9 cut)
    11 - 5 players = 6 (.6 cut)

    Be advised that this formula only applies on 3-2, DAS, DA2 games. Then there's the tolerance level that needs to be factored in.

    Jabberwocky writes:

    Moses replies: Great info Jabbs: Everyone is always qouting pen. Your pitch game begins beyond 50% about 95% of the time. You're exchanging cards up until that point. So, if you have a 60% pen game, you are actively participating in 10% of the game for the most part.

  6. #21
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    Default The Emotion of a Max bet

    A couple of thoughts;

    1.) Preparation breeds confidence. 49ers down 16-13 in the 1989 Super Bowl and 80 yards away from victory. Joe Montana steps into the huddle and says "look guys, there is John Candy in the stands."

    2.) which results in cool execution. Kenny Loggins - This is IT.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wf0WKdF8aKs

    3.) The look. Leon Russell on the piano

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xhlvQen4mWw
    Last edited by Moses; August 14th, 2018 at 03:08 PM.

  7. #22
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    I thought that the deeper the penn, the more chances of big bets and thus more variance. Is it a myth that the deeper the penn can go, the more variance one gets, he it cards or women?
    Zee writes ^:

    Moses replies: Shoes belong on your feet. But a deep pitch game is the reason why your ass hits the seat. The reason you're scared is because with your count HiLo you have no idea whether you're betting into or walking away from strong or weak deck compositions.

    Cards, yes
    Women, variable to the angle of the dangle. Think of her in terms of a WiFi hotspot with strong reception. Add security by making yourself a personal hot spot. Dazzle her with a stream of non stop data. Improve reception by better antennae placement. Adjust by rotating dials.

    Utilization of the above, in terms of 1 poster here, will smooth the ride. Better variance will be yours.

    Freighter writes ^:

    Moses replies: ..or you could simply walk up and say "you seem like a very nice, intelligent lady" I would sure like to get to know your better. Seemed to work for me.

    Yes, a smooth ride is greatly overlooked on forums. In the Zee analogy of women to blackjack. Walking away offers no chance of winning, blurting out "let's fuck" leaves him with only his dick in his hand/his chips in the casinos tray. Thus the 8 million questions of "how do I do this again"?
    Last edited by Moses; August 15th, 2018 at 10:58 AM.

  8. #23
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    There’s nothing overly sophisticated about Biloxi. What you just described is almost every other casino town. Hell, if you have enough notoriety via databases, some places will flyer you in the entire state. Being flyered in a given city after a back off is common.

    Ryemo writes ^:

    Moses replies: So play local and within casino tolerance. Smart doggie - good doggie.


    If a friend came to you and said "I want to learn how to count cards..." I'm curious how you would respond.
    newbie writes;

    Moses replies: Let's go with "no you don't" for $500 Alex.

    Okay Zee, I listed the miles for you for a 3 day trip.
    1) MSP airport to Mystic Lake casino 24 miles.
    2) Mystic Lake casino to Treasure Island casino 48 miles
    3) Treasure Island casino to Turtle Lake casino 85 miles
    4) Turtle Lake casino to Danbury casino 58 miles
    5) Danbury casino to Hinckley casino 26 miles
    6) Hinckley casino to Mille Lacs casino 54 miles
    7) Mille Lacs casino to Running Aces casino 97 miles
    8) Running Aces casino to MSP airport 31 miles
    Total trip 423 miles.

    If trip is to long cut out the part going to Mille Lacs.

    Midwest player writes ^;

    Moses replies: Good job MP. Again, Zee has found someone to do his work for him for free. A conservative estimate for Airfare, Car Rental, and Gas would be $500. A couple of nights at a Motel 6, maybe $150? Playing time, driving time, flying time? 36 hours = 12 hours per day. So you get maybe 20 hours playing time if you eliminate 7 and double back on 1 and/or 2 and eat cupcakes, crackers and cheese will driving. In that 20 hours, IF you average $50 per hour, you will make $350 for the entire trip. Shrewd!

    ...And Flash/puppets rips me for making $1200 in 15 hours with a little positive expense. What an ass!

    Last edited by Moses; August 15th, 2018 at 11:52 AM.

  9. #24
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    You weren't misqouted roof shovel. Zee said he can only be gone for 3 days. Perhaps a local route for you with time spent at a DD game, travel costs, time invested, motel rates, and profit made might be useful?

  10. #25
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    My session began with the very first hand I played. It'll end when I die.


    Moses replies...And then no one is going to care and the results won't matter either. Shrewd!

  11. #26
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    Regardless of how he meant it, I took it as a huge compliment. If he meant his statements as a put down, then that means he’s putting down anybody who uses Hilo. That’s a lot of people!

    Btw, he didn’t even know the removal of 4 and 5s are more important to a player than the removal of 2 and 3s so his bj knowledge isn’t very advanced. Do you know that? He seemed to be impressed by your knowledge of bj.
    DBS writes ^:


    Moses replies: Look at the difference between the EOR combined total for the 2,3s vs 4,5s. Now compare the EOR of 2,3,4 vs 5,6,7. I done a 5 column count. 23,45,67,89,ten and side count the Ace. The work isn't worth the effort. Consider where a 2,3,4 and 5,67 land you from 12,13,14,15,16.

    Hilo is not a good count for pitch games. If you've done as much reading as UstonZen, you'd already now this. The primary reason is your bet spread is limited by casino design. C'mon, pit boss, you already know this. Now throw in reduced pen and limited rules. Thus you're going to need a stronger count. Maybe you don't notice at the red chip level. But you will at black. Plus what have you accomplished with HiLo. If you have any game whatsoever, then the pit/EITS will watch and be counting right along with you.

    Of course I'm impressed with Freighter's knowledge. He doesn't stop with just the EOR matchup. HE also side counts the Ace for improved IC. If you've ever ran or studied a sim, you would see this is vital, for his game.

    Last edited by Moses; August 16th, 2018 at 04:10 PM.

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