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Thread: Something Beginners MUST Understand

  1. #1
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    Default Something Beginners MUST Understand

    Something you have to understand as a beginner is there are two things for a count to help you with, bet sizing and playing decisions. Plays are stronger when fewer decks are used but also playing deviations become more important as you spread less. SD and DD games generally don't tolerate a large spread. Both of these forces make playing deviations at least as important if not more important than bet sizing for SD and DD games. In shoe games more decks are used so plays are slightly weaker in general and a very large spread is generally tolerated at least for a while. That makes bet sizing far more important than in shoe games.

    If beginners understand the previous paragraph you would see that you have given up most of your advantage by not using index plays to know when to deviate from BS. Second, if you are playing tables with many other players, on a per round basis this doesn't affect the play-all player much. They eat the good cards and high count rounds so your advantage is cut severely when you finally see a high count.

    BJ is all about playing enough to have things average and EV grows linearly as rounds accumulate but SD grows by the square root of number of rounds played. So as you play more rounds the 1 SD point below EV keeps walking toward positive territory and eventually more positive territory. So at a crowded table ay DD you never get many rounds in before the shuffle which means results in the short term will seem pretty random even if you were using the proper playing deviations. Now it evens out per round for the play-all player because they also eat bad cards and negative expectation rounds. The logic doesn't transfer to actual play though. You should be avoiding bad counts by not playing so they can't eat cards for you in bad counts if you are not playing. But they don't leave to allow you to play good counts heads-up. Where crowding really hurts is game speed. You have a certain positive expectation per round but at a crowded table you might get in 60 rounds an hour compare to around 150 to 250 rounds per hour heads up. So basically your hourly playing heads up goes up by a factor of 3 or 4 compared to playing at a crowded table assuming that your EV per round is the same.

    Anyway beginners should expect to have blah results in pitch games if you use no indices. You have given up At least half the value of using a count in SD and DD by just using basic strategy as your playing strategy.

    Sorry for the post length but things need to be explained to beginners. Hopefully they could understand it.

  2. #2
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    Default

    1. Buy Casino Verite
    2. Buy CV Data
    3. Learn Wong Halves
    4. Learn Perfect Insurance
    5. Learn Sweet Sixteen
    6. Do Not Exceed Casino Tolarances

  3. #3
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    Default

    Wow, first T3 post without mentioning side count or non-linear! Now can you post something for Advanced Ploppy?
    After over 10000 BS bragging posts, it turns out that T3 doesn't even play BJ! What a damn joke, LOL!
    T3 is no threat to any casino because he spends most of his time bragging on BTF.
    T3: Talk The Talk.

  4. #4

    Default Card Counters are Criminals!

    For what it's worth I went over to see a lady friend of mine last night, strictly platonic by the way. Anyways she had a bimbo friend of hers over as company and we started talking about card games. Soon enough we started talking about Blackjack and card counting and then all of a sudden she mentioned that card counters are criminals! I couldn't believe what came out of this ladies mouth, she was 47 years old. She thought of card counters as out right criminals! I tried explaining to this lady that card counting isn't breaking the law and it isn't illegal. She isn't a casino buff but I realized that the movie propaganda of "21" must have been believable to her. I could not believe it. It's hard to believe that there are still people out there who think card counting is illegal.
    Last edited by Blitzkrieg; October 10th, 2017 at 11:01 PM.

  5. #5
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    Default Blitz

    Why did you mention it was a "platonic" relationship? I would rather think a loving passionate relationship with a woman need not be a bad thing....yes,,no??


    CP
    "Midwest Masters Of Advantage", "Strength and Honor."

  6. #6

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by creeping panther View Post
    Why did you mention it was a "platonic" relationship? I would rather think a loving passionate relationship with a woman need not be a bad thing....yes,,no??


    CP

    No, it's not a loving passionate relationship, strictly platonic as this is an older lady, early 60's age wise. A day or two after the near fist fight at the Fox (late September) involving a poker hand with different people, this lady friend of mine kicked me out of her house for kicking her ass at gin rummy.
    The reasons why I think she got a case of the ass is because I reclaimed the lead on the 4th game where we play to 100 points, she was out of cigarettes and having a nicotine fit, and she claimed I was throwing the cards at her (which I was not).

    She got up from the table and threw the cards on the floor, then she hit me in the arm swearing like a sailor. Since she did that I called her a fucking whore in her own house and that really pissed her off. She then tried reaching for her cane to hit me with it as I was leaving so I slammed the screen door on her finger on the way out come to find out later. I also kicked over her trash can as she was swearing cuss words at me in the front yard while she threatened to call the cops on me.
    That's how I left her house that night but everything is okay now. That was a rough few days about a month ago over 2 different games.



    Last edited by Blitzkrieg; October 31st, 2017 at 11:18 PM.

  7. #7
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    Default Blitz

    Quote Originally Posted by Blitzkrieg View Post

    No, it's not a loving passionate relationship, strictly platonic as this is an older lady, early 60's age wise. A day or two after the near fist fight at the Fox (late September) involving a poker hand with different people, this lady friend of mine kicked me out of her house for kicking her ass at gin rummy.
    The reasons why I think she got a case of the ass is because I reclaimed the lead on the 4th game where we play to 100 points, she was out of cigarettes and having a nicotine fit, and she claimed I was throwing the cards at her (which I was not).

    She got up from the table and threw the cards on the floor, then she hit me in the arm swearing like a sailor. Since she did that I called her a fucking whore in her own house and that really pissed her off. She then tried reaching for her cane to hit me with it as I was leaving so I slammed the screen door on her finger on the way out come to find out later. I also kicked over her trash can as she was swearing cuss words at me in the front yard while she threatened to call the cops on me.
    That's how I left her house that night but everything is okay now. That was a rough few days about a month ago over 2 different games.



    Wow, Be careful Blitz, this whole event, as you describe, raises alarms.

    CP
    "Midwest Masters Of Advantage", "Strength and Honor."

  8. #8

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by creeping panther View Post
    Wow, Be careful Blitz, this whole event, as you describe, raises alarms.

    CP
    It's just how things go sometimes. It's done with and over.

  9. #9
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    Moral of the story: If you want to find a good looking hot wife go to a casino and play blackjack. That’s definitely called taking advantage play to another level.

    DBS writes ^:

    Moses replies; Speaking from experience, change the word wife to lady and we're good to go. Must love shoes.

    Give it time. Either she takes half of what he owns, or her looks go and he is stuck with the ugly hag she is on the inside. Either way it is a severe disadvantage play.

    T3 writes ^:

    Moses replies; Ahem: It's half of what you own(ed). Depending on state. In the words of Don S, I was in the "what was I thinking" state.
    Casinos have nothing to with it. But yes, an EV killer.


    Anyway, I'm sure glad you guys finally resolved the OP count is best debacle. Now, all you have to do is field Zee's thread questions and Midwest Player polls.

    But if DBS says "T3, I agree" one time time?



    Last edited by Moses; August 8th, 2018 at 11:42 AM.

  10. #10
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    Default Only idiots play 6:5 blackjack

    I agree. But why stop here? Let's add shoes, more than 2 decks. Less than 60% pen. Travel more than 3 hours. Pay more than $200 round trip. Why? Because your time is better spent on a more worthwhile profit making endeavor or less expensive hobby.

    The entire east coast is made up of shoe games. Why? Because they can. As long as ploppies keep supporting and AP's speak of prosperity, the games and rules will continue to decline.

    Finally, if 6:5 is so vital (which it is) then you must build your game around getting 3.2 blackjacks as being the primary objective.
    NOT, tons of indices at minimum bet levels.

    Why do carnival games require someone to entice you to play? Because the game is not fair. Samething in blackjack. Why do we expect them to offer a fair game when we continue to support the lunacy of their games which are not fair? Not EVEN close.
    Last edited by Moses; August 8th, 2018 at 11:41 AM.

  11. #11
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    Let's be clear. I am not endorsing a 6:5 game. I will seek and play the best games possible in my travels, but an empty 6:5 table with the rules I stated compared to a packed high fiving ploppies tables I may play. 6:5 BJ is here, you can't ignore it, but you can put it in as part of your play if conditions dictate.

    Albee writes ^:


    Moses replies: A perfect example of why one should keep travel close to home and costs to a minimum. They're too inclined to play bad games because of same. That's an addiction. Not a prudent strategy. YOU have to be in control of game selection. Money lost today on bad games and won tomorrow on good games still leaves you even.

    Again, if you keep forking your dollars over for invisible teddy bears, they will never offer a fair game.

  12. #12
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    Default Dummy?

    I keep telling you this is not my system. Someone else adapted my concepts to BJ using different criterion to divide things into more specific related deck compositions. What I have been talking about is trading some EV and SCORE for more predictable winning results. Long term stats don't show the short term. That is why you give up EV. You could use the concept to gain EV but that would be a step in the wrong direction in casino play. On a computer it would look great. But in a casino your results would have increased buy-ins, and more severe swings which makes them take notice of you, all for a small increase in EV. This is about being tolerated, which is much more likely if your buy-ins are smaller and your results are less extreme while winning almost as much in the long run. In casino play the main thing is being allowed to play, not generating the highest EV or SCORE. The EV will more than even out with the extra play you get before you get banned. Some of these illiterates act like I am saying this generates more EV or better long term stats. The entire time I have been saying the opposite. That trading a little EV for more frequent wins and less frequent and less severe losses is what it is about. I am not sure we could even agree on a way to show that using stats. Long term stats don't even hint about what happens in the short term. But if you have played a long time both ways the difference is quickly apparent if you keep detailed records.

    Dummy, T3, Tarzan writes ^:


    Moses replies: Let me see if I can shorten this up a wee bit. Significant profits don't come from the quality games you choose to play. It comes from the quantity of games you choose NOT to play. No?

    Significant winning sessions don't come from the large bets you make but rather the ones you duck.

    It is not unusual to get a high TC in Hilo with a lousy deck composition. It is not unusual to get a lower TC with a great deck composition.

    It seems odd how you came up with exactly 500 bins? Also, why not just play your game? Why the need to explain it to others? Your explanation is so generalized it appears to be utter bullshit. No offense meant. But that is why you get endless crap thrown at you and it goes nowhere. Hence, a pissing contest. Ironic, T3 is said to never play. Tarzan is said to always play. I read their knowledge as one in the same. Hmmm. What's wrong/right with this picture?

    I get it. One personality just can't stand watching the Zenkings and KJs constantly complain that they chase and cannot catch their own tails/tales. So you generalize and the whole thing starts over again.







    Last edited by Moses; August 9th, 2018 at 01:03 PM.

  13. #13
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    Default 6.5 thread

    This thread is SO friggin' pathetic. It is impossible to post virtually anything without immediate counter reactions from people who are just madly in love with hearing themselves talk.

    Making asinine statements such as what a great game 6:5 can be if only you're creative and can think outside the box and all this other horse manure is truly insulting to blackjack greats such as Gman. As if he didn't understand that if you dealt a SD game to the end and could spread 50-1 with impunity, you might actually win a few pennies at this loathsome game!

    Instead of the naysayers' trying to impress us with their dazzling innovative capabilities, just FOR ONE F**KING TIME in the history of this forum, let the f**king original statement stand and STFU!

    Don
    writes ^:

    Moses replies: Well said. State/Ask the time and told how to build a watch. Missed my friggin plane. Running out of material Norm?

  14. #14
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    why in the world are you accepting $12 on a $10 BJ when on the next table you can get $15? Answer: You're a dum dum!

    G Man writes ^:

    Moses replies: The all time ploppy of all ploppy moves was a guy left a 3.2 single deck table straight up with decent pen to join a group 6.5 single deck with 50% pen. Why? So he wouldn't lose his money so fast.

    Freightman, please do the forum a favor and simply ignore dbs. There's no point in conversing with him.
    21Forme writes ^:

    Moses replies: I agree? O crap. I used to tell my kids that if my ex and I agree on something, they should give it strong consieration to this rarity.


    Last edited by Moses; August 9th, 2018 at 09:13 PM.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moses View Post
    why in the world are you accepting $12 on a $10 BJ when on the next table you can get $15? Answer: You're a dum dum!

    G Man writes ^:

    Moses replies: The all time ploppy of all ploppy moves was a guy left a 3.2 single deck table straight up with decent pen to join a group 6.5 single deck with 50% pen. Why? So he wouldn't lose his money so fast.
    This is one of the reasons I started playing single deck 6:5. If you go to a caisno and camp out at their DD game they will pick you off eventually. If you go back and forth between 6:5 single and 3:2 DD, you look more like a ploppy. I’ve found this is great cover. Most casinos don’t think APs play much 6:5. I’ve never been picked off at a casino where I play 6:5, even when I play a lot of DD with a big spread at the same casino.

    DBs writes ^:

    Moses replies: ...And this statement runs a very close second. I mean you actually drive a car, raise kids, and eat in restaurants?


    No, Bill Carson is not my real name.
    Bill Carson writes ^:

    Moses replies: But my friends call me Bill. You can call me...Bill.


    I really have to stop reading your post, as all they do is cause aggravation.

    Bosox writes to DBS ^:

    Moses replies: Ignore button. Life is too short. Norm banned the He Ain't Heavy He's a Brother. The Hollies
    Last edited by Moses; August 10th, 2018 at 05:26 PM.

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