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Thread: BJ Question: A/10 Frequency and Card Readers?

  1. #1

    Default BJ Question: A/10 Frequency and Card Readers?

    Does anyone know in a 6D BJ game how often a face card or an Ace will appear as the dealers upcard, percentages or ratios would be helpful?

  2. #2
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    Default While

    Quote Originally Posted by Blitzkrieg View Post
    Does anyone know in a 6D BJ game how often a face card or an Ace will appear as the dealers upcard, percentages or ratios would be helpful?

    Stinging??

    CP
    "Midwest Masters Of Advantage", "Strength and Honor."

  3. #3

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by creeping panther View Post
    Stinging??

    CP
    Well not quite CP. I was thinking about the possibilities of a partial HC Blackjack game from the dealers perspective, the dealer being able to steer a player on the table whenever they have to check the other card. That is why I posed the question, what is the percentage that the dealer would have an Ace or a face card as their upcard in a 6D Blackjack game? I know it would have to fluctuate but I would like a ballpark percentage if anyone knows. Second question would be what would the player edge be if the player was playing a partial HC game while card counting? Lets assume that an ASM would be in use in these scenarios.
    Last edited by Blitzkrieg; September 19th, 2016 at 04:33 PM.

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    Default Blitz

    Quote Originally Posted by Blitzkrieg View Post
    Well not quite CP. I was thinking about the possibilities of a partial HC Blackjack game from the dealers perspective, the dealer being able to steer a player on the table whenever they have to check the other card. That is why I posed the question, what is the percentage that the dealer would have an Ace or a face card as their upcard in a 6D Blackjack game? I know it would have to fluctuate but I would like a ballpark percentage if anyone knows. Second question would be what would the player edge be if the player was playing a partial HC game while card counting? Lets assume that an ASM would be in use in these scenarios.
    On Miss. Stud, back in the day of flashing dealers, the edge on that game was 50%. Any HCer will count because they count as a natural facet of playing bj, if you STing, and are HCing, and of course CCing in a game, I am not sure of the percentage but you would be one lucky SOB to be sitting at that table, especially if they offered LS and S-17!!!!!!!!! I would say at least 50% in my example, and probably much better than that. Hope this helps you somewhat.

    CP
    "Midwest Masters Of Advantage", "Strength and Honor."

  5. #5

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    I don't get it, but ...

    312 cards / 120 As/10s = 2.6 ?
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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by zengrifter View Post
    I don't get it, but ...

    312 cards / 120 As/10s = 2.6 ?
    I think that is true for only the first round. Overall, you probably need a sim. I got ~10% ace up and ~33% ten up for an average six-deck shoe. Does that make sense?
    Last edited by fat_bumblebee; September 19th, 2016 at 09:19 PM.
    AP: Advanced Ploppy.

    After over 10000 BS bragging posts, it turns out that T3 doesn't even play BJ! What a damn joke, LOL!

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by fat_bumblebee View Post
    I think that is true for only the first round. Overall, you probably need a sim. I got ~10% ace up and ~33% ten up for an average six-deck shoe. Does that make sense?
    No
    "The dogs bark but the caravan moves on."
    .....................The Zengrifter Interview (PDF) |
    The Zengrifter / James Grosjean Reputation Debate
    -----------------------------------------
    “Truth, like gold, is obtained not by growth, but by washing away all that is not gold.” — Leo Tolstoy........
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  8. #8
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    Default

    Just do the math for a single deck. The odds change with every card dealt but no one has time or ability to run the totality of situations, just approximate ones. That's CCing. CP talks of advantage. Blitz just wants to know probability of tens and/or aces.

    Just run one deck... At the outset it's 4 out of 52 aces and 16 out of 52 tens. Combined it's 20:52. The math for percentage is %=part/whole. So percentage of tens and aces is 20/52=.38462, so 38.462% chance of your first card is ten or ace. Do whatever calcs you want!

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by Villiam View Post
    Just run one deck... At the outset it's 4 out of 52 aces and 16 out of 52 tens. Combined it's 20:52. The math for percentage is %=part/whole. So percentage of tens and aces is 20/52=.38462, so 38.462% chance of your first card is ten or ace. Do whatever calcs you want!
    Quote Originally Posted by zengrifter View Post
    312 cards / 120 As/10s = 2.6 ?
    that's what I said.
    2.6 = 0.3846. Bumblebee's sim is skewed.
    "The dogs bark but the caravan moves on."
    .....................The Zengrifter Interview (PDF) |
    The Zengrifter / James Grosjean Reputation Debate
    -----------------------------------------
    “Truth, like gold, is obtained not by growth, but by washing away all that is not gold.” — Leo Tolstoy........
    "Is everything a conspiracy? No, just the important stuff." ZG

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by creeping panther View Post
    On Miss. Stud, back in the day of flashing dealers, the edge on that game was 50%. Any HCer will count because they count as a natural facet of playing bj, if you STing, and are HCing, and of course CCing in a game, I am not sure of the percentage but you would be one lucky SOB to be sitting at that table, especially if they offered LS and S-17!!!!!!!!! I would say at least 50% in my example, and probably much better than that. Hope this helps you somewhat.

    CP
    Thanks CP. I was thinking, how does the house or how would the house be able to stop such an act between a dealer and player collusion team in Blackjack. Think about all the Blackjack dealers across the country. They got relatives, friends, spouses, boyfriends and girlfriends, & possibly teammates. I'm sure BJ dealers give soft games where partial HC info is given to certain players, I'm sure it happens all the time and has been for a very long time, long before the thought of Blackjack ever crept into my mind , in every jurisdiction across the country. I just want to know how is such an edge quantified or measured? Not that I'm going to do such an act.
    Last edited by Blitzkrieg; September 20th, 2016 at 03:19 AM.

  11. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by zengrifter View Post
    I don't get it, but ...

    312 cards / 120 As/10s = 2.6 ?
    I got 38.46% for a figure to. That would leave me to believe that it's roughly 35%-40% of the time for a SD that an Ace or a face would be the dealers up card. I'm not sure if that is correct or if I'm even in the ballpark however. Would it be the same for a 6D game?
    Last edited by Blitzkrieg; September 20th, 2016 at 03:18 AM.

  12. #12

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    312 cards is 6D.
    "The dogs bark but the caravan moves on."
    .....................The Zengrifter Interview (PDF) |
    The Zengrifter / James Grosjean Reputation Debate
    -----------------------------------------
    “Truth, like gold, is obtained not by growth, but by washing away all that is not gold.” — Leo Tolstoy........
    "Is everything a conspiracy? No, just the important stuff." ZG

  13. #13
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    Default Dealer

    Quote Originally Posted by Blitzkrieg View Post
    Thanks CP. I was thinking, how does the house or how would the house be able to stop such an act between a dealer and player collusion team in Blackjack. Think about all the Blackjack dealers across the country. They got relatives, friends, spouses, boyfriends and girlfriends, & possibly teammates. I'm sure BJ dealers give soft games where partial HC info is given to certain players, I'm sure it happens all the time and has been for a very long time, long before the thought of Blackjack ever crept into my mind , in every jurisdiction across the country. I just want to know how is such an edge quantified or measured? Not that I'm going to do such an act.
    I cut a DD dealer in on the action, Native American female dealer in a Rez casino, all I wanted was the very deepest pen she could do without running out of cards, paid her a percent of my winnings. If we were about to run out of cards I would not hit, it was a heads up game with a high min. bets table. Her mom was the pit boss.


    CP
    "Midwest Masters Of Advantage", "Strength and Honor."

  14. #14

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Blitzkrieg View Post
    Thanks CP. I was thinking, how does the house or how would the house be able to stop such an act between a dealer and player collusion team in Blackjack. Think about all the Blackjack dealers across the country. They got relatives, friends, spouses, boyfriends and girlfriends, & possibly teammates. I'm sure BJ dealers give soft games where partial HC info is given to certain players, I'm sure it happens all the time and has been for a very long time, long before the thought of Blackjack ever crept into my mind , in every jurisdiction across the country. I just want to know how is such an edge quantified or measured? Not that I'm going to do such an act.
    In almost all casinos, dealers don't know the hole card, only if it's a ten or not (if ace up), or an ace or not (if ten up). That's why they have a little photodetector or mirror, rather than looking manually. It eliminates this play entirely. Once they know it's too late to do anything about it anyhow.

    It's been a while but if I remember right (from Beyond Counting), the edge from knowing the HC when an ace is up is not very valuable (unless you can still buy insurance!) If you know the HC when a ten is up, it's much better, at around 2-3% advantage off the top (with "reasonable" playing and surrender available), then you can count against this to adjust your bet if you like. Of course, knowing the HC all the time is pure gold..!

  15. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by creeping panther View Post
    I cut a DD dealer in on the action, Native American female dealer in a Rez casino, all I wanted was the very deepest pen she could do without running out of cards, paid her a percent of my winnings. If we were about to run out of cards I would not hit, it was a heads up game with a high min. bets table. Her mom was the pit boss.


    CP
    That's somewhat along the lines of what I'm referring to, getting a better game than what would normally be offered.

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