View Poll Results: Should the Blitz/Boz Bet be Canceled?

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  • Bet Stands

    7 77.78%
  • Bet Canceled

    2 22.22%
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Thread: The Boz/Blitz Election Bet Ruling

  1. #1

    Default The Boz/Blitz Election Bet Ruling

    DDutton and I have been asked to make an informal ruling...

    Before doing so everyone is invited to weigh in.

    Personal attacks will be deleted or redacted.

    Poling should not commence until all interested parties weigh in.
    Last edited by zengrifter; August 19th, 2016 at 10:00 PM.
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  2. #2
    Boz's Avatar
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    Default Thanks for the Consideration, Zengrifter

    For ease, I will summarize events chronologically from my perspective, and substantially copy my main argument from another thread.

    Blitzkrieg (BK) offered a $1000 bet regarding the election, challenging anyone to take Clinton. I accepted his bet. The bet was deemed official by myself, BK, and Zengrifter through word and deed. This was in late July as I recall, when most projections only marginally favored Clinton. By August 4th (continuing through the 9th), the polls had dramatically swung in Clinton's favor and continued to rise. This coincided with BK's attitude towards me turning foul. I asked if I had offended him, possibly by boasting, and offered an apology. No explanation was offered except that an apology was unnecessary. His attitude continued to worsen, and without any explanation on his part, I began to suspect this was part of a scheme to welch, casually probing his intent. He expressly stated that the bet as previously stated was invalid; that he was merely a middleman for a bookie, and that he would be taking a vig -- the implications of which are too numerous to mention. Based on that statement and his mood shifting with the polls, and only after that statement, I angrily accused him of welching. I conferred with Zengrifter, both publicly and privately. I suggested, publicly, that he act as an escrow. He deemed that I had overreacted, and BK's behavior was part of smack-talking related to the way BK plays poker, as some sort of way to test my mettle. Although I expressed my concern that BK was scheming to create uncertainty in his own integrity only to later claim that he was uncertain about whether I would pay him, I accepted this explanation. BK continued to make more outlandish claims regarding the bet. I was not rattled, although I did indicate in the unlikely event that I lost, he would need to humbly repudiate any claims he made that the bet was invalid before he could be paid. I suggested he simply stop making such claims to remedy the situation. The fact that I accepted Zengrifter's explanation and was not getting upset clearly annoyed BK, as he commented negatively on it twice, saying "Zengrifter can't save you," and "Zengrifter doesn't speak for me." Finally, BK declared the bet cancelled. His reasons were that "it seemed like he opted out," and "he keeps implying he won't pay me." Those reasons are patently invented, and the epitome of my original concerns about his motives. Although I can find nothing that remotely supports his claims that I wanted to back out, and everything seems to generally support my genuine opinion that he premeditated a poorly executed scheme of blame-shifting, I don't know that for certain. What I do know for certain is that BK ignored repeated suggestions to use an escrow, which would eliminate any uncertainty about my honor. My only stipulation for the escrow has been that the loser pays the full tab. My reasoning for that is that it is the likely loser who is necessitating and ignoring the suggestion of an escrow, and I'm only willing to take the smallest possible financial risk to set one up.

    My EV was about $50 at the start of the bet and it is now about $700. As far as I see it, cancellation of the bet is an anticipatory repudiation; in other words, it is a welch in the amount of $700 (as opposed to the full $1000). I call for BK to declare if he truly is canceling (which he has already done at least twice, not counting the times he declared the bet invalid on other grounds), and if he is, a ruling by both moderators on the matter.

    Unilaterally declaring the bet canceled puts me at the unfair disadvantage of potentially having to pay a bet that BK had no intention of honoring; it is cheating and it is theft. Taking a 'wait-and-see' approach towards his welching has serious drawbacks. Chiefly, it ignores his express statements that he fully intends to welch. It also makes his bet fraudulent, with +EV of $300 if he has unilaterally canceled the bet without regard to the invalidity of such action. Any AP or regular gambler knows such action is invalid, but they also know there is no way to enforce the bet. So it is dubious to even suggest unilateral cancellation. "I have decided," as he has stated, is a declarative sentence using a past participle. It leaves no doubt, whatsoever, that he was expressing that the cancellation of the bet is already completed. He is not expressing a suggestion, asking whether I give consent, or asking whether any neutral referee finds that any exigent circumstances warrant such action. Of course, I could refuse to pay if he won, on the basis of his dubious statements. But my reputation suffers and he gets out of a negative EV bet. It's also absolutely no different than agreeing with him t​o cancel the bet now. And I DO NOT agree to cancel a +EV bet! That's his scheme, to make it appear as if I am essentially in agreement that the bet is void and am refusing to pay. It's out of bounds to claim he fears I won't pay him; it's fraud.

    I would further ask that should this bet be unilaterally cancelled, anyone who accepts a bet from BK and loses be allowed to pay me at 50 cents on the dollar and NOT be considered to have acted inappropriately. For example, a $100 debt to BK would be paid in full by paying $50 to me and would erase $50 from BK's welch-debt as a disincentive for BK to make bets, and as incentive for other gamblers to behave appropriately in gambling.

    In the alternative, should it be decided a wait-and-see approach is the best evaluation of welching even in this unusual situation, I ask that his statements regarding cancellation be construed as a standard irrevocable request that can be accepted at any time within 90 days of it being offered; an express forfeiture of any winnings he would otherwise be entitled to. In that way, he can lose the bet on November 8th and be required at that time to either pay or welch. Or win and have forfeited his right to collect by having previously offered not to participate in the bet; and at such time, I will agree to his request, lest I forget. This alternative is a formality, to be sure, because it should not be adopted if one truly believes BK intends to honor the bet.

    In summary, BK must declare the bet in effect or be deemed a welcher. If he elects to change his current claim to say it is still effect, he must thoroughly explain his misconduct and be judged trustworthy before it can be accepted. He has already tarnished his reputation, but it must be official that he is a welcher if he stays the course. Some penalty must be assessed. He is accused of a serious offense in gambling circles, and this is the only fair result.

    Thank you.
    Last edited by Boz; August 20th, 2016 at 01:09 AM.

  3. #3

    Default

    This is the formal ruling, Boz can go fuck himself. The only thing your owed is an ass kicking!
    Last edited by Blitzkrieg; August 20th, 2016 at 03:04 AM.

  4. #4
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    Default

    I think I am entitled to a default judgment on every issue.

  5. #5

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Boz View Post
    I think I am entitled to a default judgment on every issue.
    Your entitled to an ass kicking, that's about it. You obviously don't listen very well do you?

  6. #6
    Boz's Avatar
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    Default

    I've never met a total xxxxxxx who wasn't afraid of me. I'm not sure how you expect to convince me or anyone that you're more than a xxxxxx xxxxx with poor xxxxxx. You've already attested to being the best gambler ever and proved it with xxxxxx.
    Last edited by zengrifter; August 20th, 2016 at 12:50 PM. Reason: redact

  7. #7

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Boz View Post
    I've never met a total scumbag who wasn't afraid of me. I'm not sure how you expect to convince me or anyone that you're more than a keyboard warrior with poor spelling. You've already attested to being the best gambler ever and proved it with voodoo.
    Your scared of your own shadow xxxxxx. Your putting words in my mouth but I would say if me and you went at it, you would know without a doubt who is the better gambler & player. Your just a xxxxxxx Blackjack player. That's all you can do.
    Last edited by zengrifter; August 20th, 2016 at 12:51 PM. Reason: redact

  8. #8
    Boz's Avatar
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Blitzkrieg View Post
    Your scared of your own shadow pussy. Your putting words in my mouth but I would say if me and you went at it, you would know without a doubt who is the better gambler & player. Your just a pathetic Blackjack player. That's all you can do.
    So you're going to physically force me to believe you're a better "gambler and player"? Or is this rambling incoherence supposed to be part of a new topic?

  9. #9

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by boz View Post
    i'm not sure how you expect to convince me or anyone that you're more than a keyboard warrior with poor spelling. .
    Ok T3.

  10. #10

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Boz View Post
    So you're going to physically force me to believe you're a better "gambler and player"? Or is this rambling incoherence supposed to be part of a new topic?
    I already told you I would throw a deck of cards at your face if we ever went at it, I would embarrass you and teach you a lesson you would never forget. Do you not believe I would do such? People like you are all the same. I've seen and dealt with the public enough to know what average and below average card players do and the stupid things they will say to make up for the holes in "their" game.
    Last edited by Blitzkrieg; August 20th, 2016 at 03:56 AM.

  11. #11
    Boz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blitzkrieg View Post
    I already told you I would throw a deck of cards at your face if we ever went at it, I would embarrass you and teach you a lesson you would never forget. Do you not believe I would do such? People like you are all the same. I've seen and dealt with the public enough to know what average and below card players do and the stupid things they will say to make up for the holes in "their" game.
    You would embarrass me because I would be associated with you, which is why this fantasy of yours would never take place. I believe you're a raving xxxxx. I've barely mentioned my game on here. Your typical generic Burger King invention, that of course lacks any supporting detail. Chxxxxtan "poker player."
    Last edited by zengrifter; August 20th, 2016 at 12:53 PM. Reason: redact

  12. #12

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Boz View Post
    You would embarrass me because I would be associated with you, which is why this fantasy of yours would never take place. I believe you're a raving lunatic. I've barely mentioned my game on here. Your typical generic Burger King invention, that of course lacks any supporting detail. Charlatan "poker player."
    Of course it will never take place, because you don't want to get embarrassed. If I ever crossed paths with you I would xxxx in your xxxx. Your the chxxxxtan you xxxx xxxxxx xxxxxx!
    Last edited by zengrifter; August 20th, 2016 at 12:54 PM. Reason: redact

  13. #13

    Default


  14. #14

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by zengrifter View Post
    DDutton and I have been asked to make an informal ruling...

    Before doing so everyone is invited to weigh in.

    Personal attacks will be deleted or redacted.

    Poling should not commence until all interested parties weigh in.
    There is one thing the both of you need to understand. When that xxx of a xxxxx Boz implied that he was not going to pay, it was all I needed to hear to cancel the bet. The way I look at it he backed out of the bet. I don't give a rats ass as to what anyone else thinks since my mind is already made up. The guy is looking for a corporate handout for crying out loud. You want some corporate welfare from the casino Boz? Need a handout? That blue state he is living in will turn red by Nov. 8!
    Last edited by zengrifter; August 20th, 2016 at 12:57 PM. Reason: redact

  15. #15
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    Default Z-Man

    I will trust that our leader Z-Man, will make the correct judgement.


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