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Thread: Norm Rails Against KJ

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    Boz's Avatar
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    Default Norm Rails Against KJ

    Norm: That's funny. Throwing a lump of coal at the sun does not add fuel to the fire. He posts several times a day, using my name and other people's names, for months on end, where we arenot permitted to defend ourselves, that I and others are essentially committing crimes of fraud along with other really strange accusations. In fact, they add fuel by making fake posts pretending to be me and T3. I mention him once every few months, without his name, and you think I am the one adding fuel to the fire. Believe what you will. He has a problem. As long as his "friends" continue to support him, he will never shake his problem and continue his downward spiral. If he has any friends left, they should consider an intervention.

    I always assumed he believed the nonsense he spews. But, a few weeks ago, he actually posted that he knew he has spread lies -- but that he enjoyed doing so.

    In any case, on both the site that has been attacking this site now starting the fourth year and the site that has been attacking WoV for years, the number of nasty people that have been banned here and at WoV (and elsewhere) has reached a critical mass of nastiness. They are now attacking each other, with both sites using the n-word as well as anti-Semetic drivel. This was an easily predictable outcome.

    Is anyone a bigger nigger than Norm? Someone should go up to Norm in a supermarket and cut in front of him. And then just stare at him. Mouthy pussy would shut the fuck up wouldn't he? Then he'd go home and email the FBI about line-cutters. So what other site is he talking about, and what lies is KJ spreading and admitting are lies? Here's T3's cum-swallowing follow-up:

    With the number of times his posts here were shot down by Don and me with the true numbers yet he never changed his rhetoric shows he knew he was spewing lies. Now it is just slanderous lies. The pitiful part is he enjoys it. That is all I need to know about someones character. You need to give these types a wide berth or someday they will turn on you. They enjoy spreading lies and hate. It says they have a dark and hateful soul. Many are too weak to control themselves when they get riled but to actually enjoy spreading slanderous lies and hate shows you are a sick individual. I hope he gets help. If there are any that didn't cut him loose yet they should try to help him.

    T3 is one to talk about getting shot down by Don with actual math, huh? Sounds like KJ's soul is doomed to Hell. Damn T3's getting all spiritual. He even hopes someone, besides T3 himself, helps KJ get right with T3's Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. Isn't slanderous lies a double-negative--which would mean it's the truth? Good thing KJ isn't committing any libel on those written posts he makes.

    Let's hear from KJ on his dark and doomed soul.
    Last edited by Boz; August 11th, 2016 at 08:41 AM.

  2. #2

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    Quote Originally Posted by Boz View Post
    Is anyone a bigger xxxxxx than Norm? Someone should go up to Norm in a supermarket and cut in front of him. And then just stare at him. Mouthy pussy would shut the fuck up wouldn't he? Then he'd go home and email the FBI about line-cutters.

    T3 is one to talk about getting shot down by Don with actual math, huh? Sounds like KJ's soul is doomed to Hell. Damn T3's getting all spiritual. He even hopes someone, besides T3 himself, helps KJ get right with T3's Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. Isn't slanderous lies a double-negative--which would mean it's the truth? Good thing KJ isn't committing any libel on those written posts he makes.

    Let's hear from KJ on his dark and doomed soul.
    KJ and Jesse Pinkman reply to both -

    Last edited by zengrifter; August 11th, 2016 at 02:57 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boz View Post
    Let's hear from KJ on his dark and doomed soul.[/COLOR]
    Norm is just delusional. There is no other way around it. And he is blatantly dishonest. Just like T3 cherry-picking data from sims, Norm cherry-picks things said to use against people. He takes things out of contexts and posts partial statements. That is just dishonest. It is just another form of lying.

    For example this quote from Norm delusional rant (cleaner look thread): “But, a few weeks ago, he actually posted that he knew he has spread lies -- but that he enjoyed doing so”.

    What Norm is referring to is the specific topic concerning his hygiene and calling him “stinky”. I didn't say my comments were lies, what I said, was I don't know if they are true or not. I went with what another (funny) member here said and ran with it. And it was fun to do because it bothers Norm so much.

    But, leaving out any details, as Norm intentionally did, throws into question all my posts concerning blackjack and my experiences. It now suggests all my blackjack posts are not true. It is just another way to undermine me. To discredit me. And that is what Norm is all about now.

    Another example that Norm has used for years, even after other people have called him out on it, is referring to this site as the anti-Semitic, racist and hate site. Saying something like “he has posted for years on the anti-semetic, racist site”. This infers that I have posted hateful anti-semitic statements, when Norm knows that I have never posted anything anti-semitic or even posted in any of those kind of threads. My participation here is strictly limited to the blackjack/gambling and AP discussions. This is done for the singular purpose of damaging my reputation and discrediting me.

    And now he is extending those 'association' attacks to another site that I participate on. Another poster on that site used the “N” word. How is that a reflection on me? But to hear Norm tell it, because I participate there, I am now a racist. That is dishonest and dishonorable of Norm. But that is who he is.

    Here are the facts: Norm nuked me from his site because I have a negative opinion of several members of his site and their misleading views. He talks about diversity (concerning opinions) as players can succeed using many different methods and styles, but then he shuts down any opinion that doesn't “jive” with the small group that dominate his site.

    But it wasn't enough that Norm shut down my opinion on BJTF, he then followed me to other sites that I participated at, like BJ21 and WoV, asking, begging the owners and administrators to either ban me or limit what I could say.

    At WoV, norm had not participated for more than 5 years, when he showed up on Dec 31, 2015 and requested and later demanded with threat of legal action that his “friend” Mike Shackleford stop me from expressing my opinion of Norm's site and members. Shackleford first tried to limit me from mentioning Norm, his site or any members and then banned me as Norm had requested. And once Norm had accomplished his goal of having me silenced, he once against disappeared from WoV.

    So for a guy who talks about information being power and sharing information, he has spent a great deal of time, working to silence someone with a differing opinion. A real live player who has achieved some measure of success.

    Not that is just my story. The story of one real live legit, successful AP driven from Norm's site (and in my case the entire community). There are so many other stories of legitimate, successful members gone one way or another from BJTF. 21Forme, Bjarg, CP (ouchez), Solo player, Wookets, and many, many more. Or top members who once participated regularly who now only very rarely do, like bigplayer.

    You don't have to take my word for this. Go to BJ21 and look at the current active members. Many used to participate at BJTF, but now do not or rarely do, despite that they are still active in the community. Or go back and read some of the top threads from years ago, and you will see names (handles) of a multitude of legit successful players, that used to participate at BJTF, but no longer do, despite that they are still active in the community.

    That tells you all you need to know. BJTF, is now regarded as a joke. Pretty much a voodoo forum populated by a handful of members with suspect actual experience, most who have some sort of agenda as far as being out to make a name for themselves, or writing a book.

    21forme, a far better person than I, tried to give BJTF another try after nearly a year away. But, in this same thread it looks like he has once again been driven away, by Norm.

    The day Norm passes away and that site shuts down will be a good day for the blackjack/AP community. That goofy little gang with an agenda, none of who are tolerated anywhere else in the community will lose their platform to mislead people.

    So Boz, I have no worries for my soul. I honestly know that I attempted to share my experiences and what little knowledge I have and have learned through my 'real' experiences (as opposed to those who live an play BJ in a fantasy world or a world of sims) with other members in attempt that we all can grow and learn from each other. Just as those that came before me did with me, not too long ago. Norm, his censorship has thwarted that exchange of ideas and experiences. And even worse he has used bully tactics to extend that censorship beyond his own site, to extend throughout the community.
    Last edited by KewlJ; August 11th, 2016 at 02:11 PM.

  4. #4

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    Another example that Norm has used for years, even after other people have called him out on it, is referring to this site as the anti-Semitic, racist and hate site. Saying something like “[KJ] has posted for years on the anti-semetic, racist site”.
    Norm himself posted over 780 times here at the hate site spanning 6 years 2005 to 2011 -
    > http://www.zenzoneforum.com/members/294-QFITman

    And Tthree, over 900 posts here, in 2011-2012 -
    > http://www.zenzoneforum.com/members/5715-Lady-Tthree

    Norm intentionally ... throws into question all my posts concerning blackjack and my experiences. It now suggests all my blackjack posts are not true. It is just another way to undermine me. To discredit me. And that is what Norm is all about ...
    Likewise, after nuking all of my contribution at BJTF, he communicated unequivocally:

    "Marcus never posted anything about BJ. All he did was ripoff BJTF members with his bizarre
    psychic gambling systems and encourage them to enhance gambling outcomes by taking LSD,
    and Ken Smith had the same problem with him at BJINFO"


    But it wasn't enough that Norm shut down my opinion on BJTF, he then followed me to other sites that I participated at, like BJ21 and WoV, asking, begging the owners and administrators to either ban me or limit what I could say.
    Here is Norm doing the same to me at another site -

    .
    .
    Last edited by zengrifter; August 11th, 2016 at 02:45 PM. Reason: typo
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    Quote Originally Posted by KJ View Post
    What Norm is referring to is the specific topic concerning his hygiene and calling him “stinky”. I didn't say my comments were lies, what I said, was I don't know if they are true or not. I went with what another (funny) member here said and ran with it. And it was fun to do because it bothers Norm so much.
    Well said, KJ. I actually wondered if this was specifically what Norm was referring to. Since you are confirming what was in my head with zero suggestion planted by anyone, and there is zero evidence that there is any other thread he could possibly be referring to, I think Norm has done an excellent job of showing himself as a disreputable liar.

    Maybe you're not worried for your soul, but that's exactly why you need T3 to pray for you! LOL
    Last edited by Boz; August 11th, 2016 at 02:40 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by zengrifter View Post
    encourage them to enhance gambling outcomes by taking LSD,
    and Ken Smith had the same problem with him at BJINFO"

    .
    .
    LOL, I don't remember that. These are posts I'd like to read. I do remember you tried to trick me once or twice. But you posted a LOT about blackjack. You were clearly one of the most knowledgeable people there, and far more helpful than Norm ever was or ever will be. When Norm showed up in a thread, it was to hock his software, threaten to suspend someone, tell a horrible joke or horrible story, or bitch about something. Is Norm seriously suggesting that he had to remove posts suggesting LSD improved gambling outcomes because newbies were taking this advice without any questions whatsoever?
    Last edited by Boz; August 11th, 2016 at 02:51 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Boz View Post
    Is Norm seriously suggesting that he had to remove posts suggesting LSD improved gambling outcomes because newbies were taking this advice without any questions whatsoever?
    No.
    He nuked 100% of my 1200+ posts and than cast the slander and defamation in private emails and PMs.
    "The dogs bark but the caravan moves on."
    .....................The Zengrifter Interview (PDF) |
    The Zengrifter / James Grosjean Reputation Debate
    -----------------------------------------
    “Truth, like gold, is obtained not by growth, but by washing away all that is not gold.” — Leo Tolstoy........
    "Is everything a conspiracy? No, just the important stuff." ZG

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    Zengrifter, is that private message from the administrator from the Gambling Forums site?

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    Yes
    "The dogs bark but the caravan moves on."
    .....................The Zengrifter Interview (PDF) |
    The Zengrifter / James Grosjean Reputation Debate
    -----------------------------------------
    “Truth, like gold, is obtained not by growth, but by washing away all that is not gold.” — Leo Tolstoy........
    "Is everything a conspiracy? No, just the important stuff." ZG

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    LOL. Does anyone read that email and remember Norm saying "I've never made a legal threat in my life"?

    Norm's a crazy Internet stalker. He claims that website violates international treaties? Anyone on the fence can be rest assured that Norm does in fact make completely bizarre and baseless legal threats on at least a weekly basis.

    Well, Zg he's using your name in that email. Isn't he always bitching about using his handle, which happens to be his name?

  11. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by KJ View Post
    Norm is just delusional. There is no other way around it.
    See -
    querulous paranoia & delusional disorder

    KJ you and CP both made efforts to quell the apparent Qfit/ZG feud, only to both ultimately wind up in the same boat.
    "The dogs bark but the caravan moves on."
    .....................The Zengrifter Interview (PDF) |
    The Zengrifter / James Grosjean Reputation Debate
    -----------------------------------------
    “Truth, like gold, is obtained not by growth, but by washing away all that is not gold.” — Leo Tolstoy........
    "Is everything a conspiracy? No, just the important stuff." ZG

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    Quote Originally Posted by Boz View Post
    LOL. Does anyone read that email and remember Norm saying "I've never made a legal threat in my life"?

    Norm's a crazy Internet stalker. He claims that website violates international treaties? Anyone on the fence can be rest assured that Norm does in fact make completely bizarre and baseless legal threats on at least a weekly basis.
    I think Norm said that he never sued anyone, not that he never threatened to do so. This is important because Norm often plays with technicalities in this manner.

    At WoV, after I was banned, Norm was arguing back and forth with some of the membership that were upset with him for getting me banned. It was brought up by one of the members that Norm had private messaged Mike Shackleford 19 times in a 24 hour period requesting, demanding, action be taken against me. Norm vehemently denied this claim numerous times for several days.

    Turns out it wasn't private messages that Norm had used to contact Shackleford 19 times in a 24 hour period, but rather email. As if that makes the slightest difference. But Norm used this technicality to swear that it didn't happen. That is what I am talking about when I say this man is just completely dishonest through and through.

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    Quote Originally Posted by zengrifter View Post
    See -
    querulous paranoia & delusional disorder

    KJ you and CP both made efforts to quell the apparent Qfit/ZG feud, only to both ultimately wind up in the same boat.
    These stand out as very descriptive of a Norm delusion.

    4. The individual tends to be humorless and oversensitive, especially about the belief.
    5.
    There is a quality of centrality: no matter how unlikely it is that these strange things are happening to him, the patient accepts them relatively unquestioningly.
    6.
    An attempt to contradict the belief is likely to arouse an inappropriately strong emotional reaction, often with irritability and hostility.

    Humorless and oversensitive? Yeah that's Norm. He occasionally does make a joke, but never makes a funny joke.

    Centrality. Yes, it would be VERY unlikely indeed if an ordinary person was required to even contemplate contacting the FBI as many times as Norm has apparently been forced to do. Norm: Defender of International Treaties.

    Irritability: Say something reasonable like "don't add fuel to the fire" and you get a hostile diatribe. See above quote attacking KJ.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KJ View Post
    I think Norm said that he never sued anyone, not that he never threatened to do so.
    Nope, I specifically remember him saying he never made a "legal threat in his life." I may have quoted it, I don't remember. It was such a fucking outrageous lie, I commented on it previously. I mentioned that he must be defining legal threat as one that isn't totally baseless, and so yes, I did take his playing with technical wording into account.

  15. #15

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    Norm had private messaged Mike Shackleford 19 times in a 24 hour period requesting, demanding, action be taken against me. Norm vehemently denied this claim numerous times for several days.
    Likewise, while Norm tells a half truth that it was "a handful of haters" that forced Ken to shutter BJINFO,
    my opinion is that it was Norm's excessive haranguing of Ken that brought BJINFO to its conclusion.
    "The dogs bark but the caravan moves on."
    .....................The Zengrifter Interview (PDF) |
    The Zengrifter / James Grosjean Reputation Debate
    -----------------------------------------
    “Truth, like gold, is obtained not by growth, but by washing away all that is not gold.” — Leo Tolstoy........
    "Is everything a conspiracy? No, just the important stuff." ZG

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