+ Reply to Thread
Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 16 to 30 of 30

Thread: Norm Rails Against KJ

  1. #16
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    307

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by zengrifter View Post
    Likewise, while Norm tells a half truth that it was "a handful of haters" that forced Ken to shutter BJINFO,
    my opinion is that it was Norm's excessive haranguing of Ken that brought BJINFO to its conclusion.
    I can just imagine the volume of threats from Norm that Ken was subject to.

    Speaking of BJINFO, I often reference the number of legitimate, knowledgeable AP's that have been purged from Norm's site or left on their own because of the way things have been run. But it is actually worse than that. There was even more really legit and knowledgeable AP's that never even attempted the journey from Ken's site to Norm's, because they knew Norm and what his site would become. Players like Automonkey, Sagefrog, Machinist, Bojack (who posted very occasionally at BJTF incognito before giving up), and so many more. People that knew him best wanted nothing to do with BJTF.

    Here is what Shadroch had to say recently when discussing this very topic.

    "Norm is one of the two people I consider a friend and have great respect for. You were the other. You'll noticed I have not said a word in Norms defense, have I? You might remember I was one of the first to bail on his forum, as well. As a mathematician, Norm is without peer. As a forum administrator, I wasn't impressed."

  2. #17
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Midwest
    Posts
    1,467

    Default Mormon

    I think the Bottom Line is that "STINKY" is a nobody and the BJ community is now fully aware of his serious psychological issues, he has seen his better days, and due to his inability to find anyone of the opposite sex to put up with his personality quirks, he is doomed to living out the rest of his life in loneliness, a very bitter pill for him to swallow,,, as I have been told that at one time he fancied himself a "ladies Man".

    He is really a very sad man.


    CP
    "Midwest Masters Of Advantage", "Strength and Honor."

  3. #18
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    307

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by KJ View Post
    There are so many other stories of legitimate, successful members gone one way or another from BJTF. 21Forme, Bjarg, CP (ouchez), Solo player, Wookets, and many, many more. Or top members who once participated regularly who now only very rarely do, like bigplayer.

    You don't have to take my word for this. Go to BJ21 and look at the current active members. Many used to participate at BJTF, but now do not or rarely do, despite that they are still active in the community. Or go back and read some of the top threads from years ago, and you will see names (handles) of a multitude of legit successful players, that used to participate at BJTF, but no longer do, despite that they are still active in the community.

    That tells you all you need to know. BJTF, is now regarded as a joke. Pretty much a voodoo forum populated by a handful of members with suspect actual experience, most who have some sort of agenda as far as being out to make a name for themselves, or writing a book.

    21forme, a far better person than I, tried to give BJTF another try after nearly a year away. But, in this same thread it looks like he has once again been driven away, by Norm.
    After posting the above two references, I received an email from 21forme, requesting that I not use his name or handle. This was actually the second time he made this request, as I received a similar email a while back when I referenced him (also on this site). Since he had advised me not to participate on this site in the first place, it would seem his issue is more with mentioning his name on this site, than mentioning his name.

    I tried to honor his initial request. Whenever I referenced the events of last summer, when 3 of us professional players, questioned the credibility of the and wild claims of T3, I would do so, as I just did, not mentioning the names (or rather handles) of the other two professional players. I 'get' that despite that they were right there with me, outraged at these fraudulent and misleading claims, they have both moved on, where I haven't. I continue to not approve of this person mis-representing himself and making ridiculous claims that influence newer players.

    21forme doesn't want to be referenced as part of last summer's actions. Despite some statements like “T3 and flash are like school yard bullies”, or “that forum is a CSM – you can't win”, or “the elderly professor and best red chipper, will continue their hi level count argument forever”, or my favorite “BJTF is no more than a voodoo forum these days”. I liked this one so much, I have used it myself regularly.

    So, 21forme has moved on. He has begun to embrace what he called the “voodoo forum” and T3, flasher and subsequently, Norm. I continue to not approve of this T3 person (both actually), misrepresenting himself and making ridiculous claims that influence newer players and have a problem with Norm allowing them the platform to do so.

    However in this case (the two instances above), I was not invoking anyone's name so as to speak for them or on their behalf. I was simply listing some names of members in the community that once regularly participated at BJTF, as now no longer do, or do so sparingly. I don't know why 21forme thinks he has a right to tell me that I can't do that. I am entitled to express my opinion.

    The loss of 21forme's friendship saddens me. It is perhaps the greatest casualty of this ordeal for me. But in reality, I lost his friendship a while ago. He previously told me that “I have accomplished nothing, other than alienate a lot of people who respected me”. He said it was a shame that “I've ostracized myself from the community”.

    If standing up for what I believe, what we all know...that these few outcasts, who dominate BJTF and are misleading newer members/players with their fantastical fantasy claims, has resulted in me being ostracized from the community, so be it. I can live with that. What I can't live with is not speaking up while these fantasy claims mislead new players. That would be a dis-service to those real life, legitimate guys that shared with me, when I was coming up. I owe it to them to continue to voice my outrage at what continues to occur at BJTF. Others can “cave” and “kiss ass” and look the other way. I won't.
    Last edited by KewlJ; August 13th, 2016 at 11:49 PM.

  4. #19
    Boz's Avatar
    Boz is offline Major Asshole Bet Welshing Loser - BANNED
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    1,240

    Default

    I think it's pretty immature for 21Forme to email you and tell you not to use his online alias in a sentence. Honestly, it seemed somewhat immature for you to deny this request, tell everyone he made it, then say his name 7 times. But, hey, if you want to stoop to his level, that's your business. I would. Although Tarzan seemed to overreact, the way he handled his issue made more sense to me. 21Forme 21Forme 21Forme 21Forme NOrman wattenberger, a trademark of Corporate Overlord QFIT


    Norm on this post: And they continue to say horrible things about me, using my real name!
    Last edited by Boz; August 14th, 2016 at 12:10 AM.

  5. #20
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    307

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Boz View Post
    Honestly, it seemed somewhat immature for you to deny this request,
    I did honor his initial request. When he contacted me many months ago, I immediately removed the mention of him in my post at the time. And since that time, when referencing last summer's incident involving challenging T3's credibility, I have not use his handle, but rather made some generic reference like "the three of us professional players".

    And frankly, even that bothered me, because I am a little annoyed that I haven't received more public support from some of these guys. A number of these legitimate members of the community have contacted me privately over the last year, voicing support and even chiming in with their own little stories that discredit T3, but they don't want to go on record. This bothers me because I feel it is our responsibility to discredit, outrageous claims and statements that are misleading. But I have respected those who didn't want to do so publicly.

    But that is different from the statements I made in this thread using his name. I simply listed a number of prominent members who no longer participate or participate sparingly at BJTF. I can not make such a list without actually using names/handles. That's all. I wasn't speaking for him, nor singling him out. Just voicing my opinion of prominent players who no longer participate.

  6. #21
    Boz's Avatar
    Boz is offline Major Asshole Bet Welshing Loser - BANNED
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    1,240

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by KJ View Post
    That's all. I wasn't speaking for him, nor singling him out.
    That's kind of why it's stupid to care why you say it, not to mention "21Forme" is just his chosen AOL screenname or whatever. If he had some reason to have an issue, let it be known to the whole world, like the mighty Tarzan. Still thought it was immaterial, but I respect the approach, and don't have qualms with a personal opinion.

  7. #22
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    307

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Boz View Post
    If he had some reason to have an issue

    Now here is an reason to have issue with someone using one's name handle. In LoneWolf's 'I Quit' thread, T3 writes "I think listening to KJ talk about playing 100 hours a year screwed you up. It is a shame that you envied KJ so much and did what would cause you issues despite everyone's warnings on the site".

    First of all, while I don't measure my play in time (hours), using rounds played instead, I would estimate that my 75,000-80,000 rounds equates to somewhere in the neighborhood of 1000 hours. I suspect and hope the 100 hours statement is a mistake of leaving off a zero, but that's a pretty big mistake when you are speaking for someone without their permission. Quite a difference between 100 hours a year and 1000 hours a year.

    Secondly, I specifically moved to a location with a large rotation of games in close proximity, so that I had the circumstances needed for such a plan. I most certainly never advised LoneWolf or anyone to employ my plan of attack.

    I also love how I am to blame for someone else not experiencing the success that they would like. I am off that site 9 months and still being misquoted and blamed for all the worlds problems. And the best part, I can't even respond, even when someone misquotes something a major as 100 hours vs 1000 hours. Again that's quite a difference.

  8. #23
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Midwest
    Posts
    1,467

    Default Kj

    There is nothing worse than a coward and a suck up, seems you have discovered one. However I do understand your feeling hurt by this realization that someone you considered a friend, basically hangs you out to dry. You do have friends here and I am sure in other places, that when the chips are down will not desert you.

    CP
    "Midwest Masters Of Advantage", "Strength and Honor."

  9. #24
    Boz's Avatar
    Boz is offline Major Asshole Bet Welshing Loser - BANNED
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    1,240

    Default

    We must not forget, that T3 is the only genius on the planet who writes at a 7th grade level and has reliabily frequent spelling errors; favored among them is judgement. I love that one, because a 6th grade teacher wrote it on the blackboard and told us all he hates when people spell it wrong. And then, in this non-English class, threatened to take off points for misuse.

    Anyways, you bring up a related point. Norm whines and complains about how he and T3 can't defend themselves to the "horrible and unfair" attacks made here. The truth is, they are probably more than welcome to post here. They'd never do so because they'd never post where they can't have some control over what other people say. They'd embarrass themselves and it would be saved for posterity. But can anyone defend themselves to attacks made by them? Absolutely not. Any attempts to do so are met with extreme hostility, sometimes including insane threats to call the FBI.

  10. #25

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Boz View Post
    Norm whines and complains about how he and T3 can't defend themselves to the "horrible and unfair" attacks made here. The truth is, they are probably more than welcome to post here.
    Absolutely they are.
    NormW has also made the exact same claim about other sites, Wong, Snyder, etc.,,,
    "They won't let me defend myself!"
    "The dogs bark but the caravan moves on."
    .....................The Zengrifter Interview (PDF) |
    The Zengrifter / James Grosjean Reputation Debate
    -----------------------------------------
    “Truth, like gold, is obtained not by growth, but by washing away all that is not gold.” — Leo Tolstoy........
    "Is everything a conspiracy? No, just the important stuff." ZG

  11. #26
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Posts
    614

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by creeping panther View Post
    There is nothing worse than a coward and a suck up, seems you have discovered one. However I do understand your feeling hurt by this realization that someone you considered a friend, basically hangs you out to dry. You do have friends here and I am sure in other places, that when the chips are down will not desert you.

    CP
    Typical of most, if everyone, over there...

  12. #27
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Posts
    614

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by KJ View Post
    “I have accomplished nothing, other than alienate a lot of people who respected me”. He said it was a shame that “I've ostracized myself from the community”.
    I can't disagree more.

    These quotes from 21forme are kind of hard to reconcile with his quotes from earlier in your post.

    I appreciate what you were doing. As a new player I saw the stuff you were talking about on a daily basis. It was pretty easy to suss out most of the bullshit for me, but others might have it harder.

  13. #28
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Posts
    614

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Boz View Post
    They'd embarrass themselves and it would be saved for posterity.
    Good thing that's already happened.

  14. #29
    Join Date
    Sep 2017
    Posts
    454

    Default

    I continue to wonder, firstly, what your fucking problem is, and secondly, your continuous infatuation of taking cheap shots through virtually everyone of your posts, revolving around your flawed thought processes.

    I have no issues discussing losses or wins - nor for I have issues imparting knowledge to others as to what they can or can't achieve. I can just as easily not bother.

    I don't care what you think - in fact - go fuck yourself.

    Sincerely
    Freightman

    Freighter writes to DBS ^:

    Moses replies:

    Norm. This is yet another perfect example of how YOU allow words to escalate. I guarantee you if two people go at like this in a casino, someone is going to hit the floor, or both are going outside. I'm saying, don't act like you're all against violence, when in fact, YOU promote it and ENJOY until it comes your way. Then you act all offended.

    Any halfwit moron that took the time to read his own damn forum could see Freighter is being set up and antagonized.

    Grow some balls Norm and handle it.

    No one has any issues here with each other. Everyone is very supportive. But yet you claim this is the hate site. There is ALWAYS some bullshit thing going on with cults, BLUE Ink crap, socks, ant puppets at BJTF. But from what I've read from all the other sites. Maybe it's not them as you say. Look in the mirror. The problem is YOU. Maybe you should take a page from False's book...and RETIRE.






    Last edited by Moses; June 27th, 2018 at 12:23 PM.

  15. #30
    Join Date
    Sep 2017
    Posts
    454

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by KewlJ View Post
    After posting the above two references, I received an email from 21forme, requesting that I not use his name or handle. This was actually the second time he made this request, as I received a similar email a while back when I referenced him (also on this site). Since he had advised me not to participate on this site in the first place, it would seem his issue is more with mentioning his name on this site, than mentioning his name.

    I tried to honor his initial request. Whenever I referenced the events of last summer, when 3 of us professional players, questioned the credibility of the and wild claims of T3, I would do so, as I just did, not mentioning the names (or rather handles) of the other two professional players. I 'get' that despite that they were right there with me, outraged at these fraudulent and misleading claims, they have both moved on, where I haven't. I continue to not approve of this person mis-representing himself and making ridiculous claims that influence newer players.

    21forme doesn't want to be referenced as part of last summer's actions. Despite some statements like “T3 and flash are like school yard bullies”, or “that forum is a CSM – you can't win”, or “the elderly professor and best red chipper, will continue their hi level count argument forever”, or my favorite “BJTF is no more than a voodoo forum these days”. I liked this one so much, I have used it myself regularly.

    So, 21forme has moved on. He has begun to embrace what he called the “voodoo forum” and T3, flasher and subsequently, Norm. I continue to not approve of this T3 person (both actually), misrepresenting himself and making ridiculous claims that influence newer players and have a problem with Norm allowing them the platform to do so.

    However in this case (the two instances above), I was not invoking anyone's name so as to speak for them or on their behalf. I was simply listing some names of members in the community that once regularly participated at BJTF, as now no longer do, or do so sparingly. I don't know why 21forme thinks he has a right to tell me that I can't do that. I am entitled to express my opinion.

    The loss of 21forme's friendship saddens me. It is perhaps the greatest casualty of this ordeal for me. But in reality, I lost his friendship a while ago. He previously told me that “I have accomplished nothing, other than alienate a lot of people who respected me”. He said it was a shame that “I've ostracized myself from the community”.

    If standing up for what I believe, what we all know...that these few outcasts, who dominate BJTF and are misleading newer members/players with their fantastical fantasy claims, has resulted in me being ostracized from the community, so be it. I can live with that. What I can't live with is not speaking up while these fantasy claims mislead new players. That would be a dis-service to those real life, legitimate guys that shared with me, when I was coming up. I owe it to them to continue to voice my outrage at what continues to occur at BJTF. Others can “cave” and “kiss ass” and look the other way. I won't.
    Yep. That pretty much sums up 21Forme in a nutshell. I tried to read some of his posts on another website. But I ended up poking myself in the eye with a pencil because it felt so much better.

    However 21 For me certainly lives up to his handle. He is definately a "ME" guy. He has got to be the most boring and uninformative lump of shit I've ever encountered. It's all about HIM.

    21Forme. See what happens when you try to bully others like you do Zee? We don't all run and hide or put up with your nonsense. I run to as opposed to away. Keep talkin or put your head back in the sand. Makes no difference to me.

    RYEMO> THIS is a perfect example of why your network thingy is complete utter bullshit. Go learn to play the game the right way or STFU.
    Last edited by Moses; July 16th, 2018 at 07:09 PM.

+ Reply to Thread

Similar Threads

  1. Ebola, Influenza and ... Norm
    By DDutton in forum Science & Philosophy
    Replies: 66
    Last Post: March 5th, 2015, 01:10 AM
  2. New Study: Conspiracy Theorists are now the Norm
    By DDutton in forum ZenZone General Discussion
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: December 11th, 2014, 11:51 PM
  3. How to stay anonymous with TOR (tip #1, do NOT listen to Norm)
    By zengrifter in forum ZenZone General Discussion
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: September 24th, 2014, 11:06 PM
  4. Detroit, shitcago, Norm City next?
    By Machinist in forum Real Politika
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: February 21st, 2014, 03:18 PM
  5. Buchanan Rails on Bush
    By zengrifter in forum ZenZone General Discussion
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: February 4th, 2006, 12:08 AM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts