+ Reply to Thread
Results 1 to 14 of 14

Thread: Stupid Card Counters?

  1. #1
    Boz's Avatar
    Boz is offline Major Asshole Bet Welshing Loser - BANNED
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    1,240

    Default Stupid Card Counters?

    I'm playing at this low-roller joint. This guy, by himself, sits down. He doesn't play, he just sits there. The count hits +1 and he jumps in with the massive bet of $3. The count hits +4. His bet? $3. The count plummets to zero. He wongs out. As soon as he played his first hand, I knew what he was doing. But I was a bit surprised when he NEVER raised his bet beyond $3. Seeing as he was beyond incredibly obvious, it's not unfathomable that the casino had flat-bet him. But why even play? This was 8-decks. He's going to make maybe $1 an hour.

    So skip ahead to later at a different table. He's sitting there watching some poor guy lose, waiting for the count to go up. I sit down and do the same thing. The guy colors up half way through, so I leave the table for a smoke break. I come back to find he hasn't even played a hand. I'm not happy. So I play the rest of the shoe at minimum. And I want this guy to know I'm not happy, and that his game isn't going to work. So I ask the dealer, "how many hands am I allowed to play." Apparently, as many as I want, but playing more than 3 wouldn't be economical. I'll just stick to 2, but play 2 more often than I usually do.

    So I start the shoe, playing by myself. Early on, the count hits +1/2. He jumps in. Too early he must be using hi-lo or TKO or made a bad estimate of decks or something, I thought. I immediately wong out. The count hovers around -1/2 and +1/2 and he plays by himself. Then a bunch of low cards come out and it jumps to a bit over +1. I'd normally play one hand until the count was at least 1.5, but to screw him, I jump in at two hands. It hovers around +1 to +2 for a while, then plummets to zero. I wong out. He plays out the shoe, which got as low as -4. Maybe resigned to the fact I'm going to screw him, or maybe he lost count. Either way, he didn't make his EV of $1 for that hour.

    Does anyone see any counters like that? Did I handle it right? I know some won't ever play at a table with another counter, but that's not an issue for me. I just thought this guy lacked etiquette. I played like that guy when I was a newbie, although even on my very first attempt, I wasn't quite so obvious nor as weak-stomached to never have a max bet of 1.5x the minimum. My first encounter with another counter though, I felt compelled to not wong out aggressively. Because he knows what I'm doing and he knows I'm screwing him, and we're both in the battle together. I still did it, but not like a robot. When I was green, for the first time, I didn't automatically stop playing at -1 because it felt like it was proper to not screw over another counter. And this guy seemed to be oblivious. And I screwed him. I think I taught him a couple things. It probably opened up his eyes when I let him play alone in what was probably a false count, then came in on high counts as a card eater. Took away his very slim edge.
    Last edited by Boz; August 9th, 2016 at 11:43 PM.

  2. #2

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Boz View Post
    Does anyone see any counters like that? Did I handle it right? I know some won't ever play at a table with another counter, but that's not an issue for me. I just thought this guy lacked etiquette. I played like that guy when I was a newbie, although even on my very first attempt, I wasn't quite so obvious nor as weak-stomached to never have a max bet of 1.5x the minimum. My first encounter with another counter though, I felt compelled to not wong out aggressively. Because he knows what I'm doing and he knows I'm screwing him...
    I have doubts that he was counting ... but if he was. ,maybe he only had 100$?
    Either way I would have no reservation about wonging out on him. Its not 'screwing him' regardless.
    "The dogs bark but the caravan moves on."
    .....................The Zengrifter Interview (PDF) |
    The Zengrifter / James Grosjean Reputation Debate
    -----------------------------------------
    Truth, like gold, is obtained not by growth, but by washing away all that is not gold. Leo Tolstoy........
    "Is everything a conspiracy? No, just the important stuff." ZG

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Midwest
    Posts
    1,464

    Default Best practice

    While playing BJ it is you against the house, if you look at it any other way you are a loser. To get upset by another player, or allow another player to dictate your game,,,,you are truly a rookie!


    CP
    "Midwest Masters Of Advantage", "Strength and Honor."

  4. #4
    Boz's Avatar
    Boz is offline Major Asshole Bet Welshing Loser - BANNED
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    1,240

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by creeping panther View Post
    While playing BJ it is you against the house, if you look at it any other way you are a loser. To get upset by another player, or allow another player to dictate your game,,,,you are truly a rookie!


    CP
    I didn't get upset; he was a minor annoyance. Yeah, he dictated a very small change in my usual game to prevent him from getting the high cards at +1-1.5. And this caused him to be less aggressive with his wonging, so it WORKED to my advantage. Not adapting to the situation means you are truly a terrible blackjack player!

    The first reason I don't play two hands at +1 is because table limits and rules usually make this sub-optimal. That didn't apply at this table. The second reason I don't play two hands is for camouflage. It has happened in my greener days where I'd go from one hand to two hands to one hand to two--repeatedly. This draws a lot of attention. If the count hits +2 and I go to two, I'll stay at 2 when it drops to plus 1. No in and out BS, and no attention. If I just put in a marathon of a losing session, and some idiot is counting right next to me on an otherwise empty table, is not playing with this camo for one shoe really going to harm me or is it going to help? I guess being old and unable to adapt is your robot-like game. I wouldn't recommend it for veterans. And ignoring players is one of the dumbest things I hear from people, and you are definitely not the original author of that statement. I've had angry players rat on me for counting; I've been smacked; I've been followed by a crazy person; I've been threatened; I had a guy steal a red-chip which I decided to ignore; I piss off the players, the players piss off the dealer, the dealer blames me and tells his boss. The players are more of a liability than the pit if you have ever played in crowded conditions.
    Last edited by Boz; August 10th, 2016 at 02:34 PM.

  5. #5
    Boz's Avatar
    Boz is offline Major Asshole Bet Welshing Loser - BANNED
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    1,240

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by zengrifter View Post
    I have doubts that he was counting ... but if he was. ,maybe he only had 100$?
    Either way I would have no reservation about wonging out on him. Its not 'screwing him' regardless.
    No, I'm 100% sure he was counting. I knew the count and saw him robotically wong every time I was there. It wasn't a one time thing that could have been coincidental. We were both there for hours on end. The only question was his skill level. Obviously, he isn't making a living off it. But was he flat-bet, building a bankroll, or just plain stupid? Wasn't paying enough attention to know if he was using indices, but he made no egregious errors or common errors, I would have noticed that. It's not advantageous for me, but I like seeing other counters. Like a brother in arms.

    I didn't have reservations, it's the first thing that popped into my head. But I felt like it was screwing him. On the other hand, I did think he might learn something about how his style was not optimal in the given situation. I didn't feel bad. I wouldn't have done it if I felt he had etiquette. I don't aggressively wong on other counters when there's no one else at the table for them to wong out on because I don't want to get in a pissing match.
    Last edited by Boz; August 12th, 2016 at 02:11 PM.

  6. #6

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by creeping panther View Post
    While playing BJ it is you against the house, if you look at it any other way you are a loser. To get upset by another player, or allow another player to dictate your game,,,,you are truly a rookie!


    CP
    That was my take on it. Bozo places the blame on others when things don't go his way.

  7. #7
    Boz's Avatar
    Boz is offline Major Asshole Bet Welshing Loser - BANNED
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    1,240

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Blitzkrieg View Post
    That was my take on it. Bozo places the blame on others when things don't go his way.
    What are you talking about, Burger King? I saw a card counter who's EV was less than a $1 per hour and thought it was worth mentioning. I'd rather play with him at the table than a bunch of ploppies any day. He's not going to say shit to me no matter what I do. I ate all his good cards, and made him play a negative shoe for me. He actually came in handy.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Posts
    615

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by creeping panther View Post
    While playing BJ it is you against the house, if you look at it any other way you are a loser. To get upset by another player, or allow another player to dictate your game,,,,you are truly a rookie!


    CP
    Honestly, this is the way I've looked at it and all of us learn quickly that any play another player makes is inconsequential. The only thing of note is the gradual decrease of SCORE given the half to full table range. So, I often wonder, are the supposed agreed-upon ethics of card counters overblown? It seems a lot of APs get pissed at being in the presence of another AP and I just don't really get that assertion, esp. if they are the only two players at the table. It would seem to me they would have lots of collective action dilemmas and potentially meet up against a zero-sum game if one or the other player spread violently when the count got high. But I could also see two people who don't know each other, other than knowing the other is a counter, playing in perfect harmony at a table for hours, figuring out how to get ploppies to fuck off the whole night by being assholes together. Just a naive player's take here, but I'm trying to figure out what the actual ethics are.

    Also, by your account Boz, nothing about this guy you are talking about makes him a counter. Nothing.

  9. #9
    Boz's Avatar
    Boz is offline Major Asshole Bet Welshing Loser - BANNED
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    1,240

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Villiam View Post

    Also, by your account Boz, nothing about this guy you are talking about makes him a counter. Nothing.
    Except for the part where he was counting. You're a fucking idiot who has no clue about blackjack. Go troll someone else mulignan. I'm tired of it.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Posts
    615

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Boz View Post
    I don't aggressively wong on other counters when there's no one else at the table for them to wong out on because I don't want to get in a pissing match.
    There was once an angry Asian lady with a wicked witch face at my table who would drop in and out in low counts or get mad if I spread out to two hands and she would grunt and throw her chips and sit out randomly to try to fuck with my card order as she perceived I was doing to her. So, eventually I got tired of her dropping out randomly (as she was tired of my wonging out too) and I went to war for fun. Every time she pulled back her bet I would pull back mine and stare off into the distance as if I didn't care at all or know what was going on. Then when she put it back I would put mine back. Since we were the only two at the table this basically amounted to chicken in which no one would play for a minute or two and she would just scowl. She was a true degenerate though so she was there all the time losing her ass--so it was of course beneficial for her to sit out for the rest of her life...

    Boy, was it fun, but the dealer said it would give me bad karma. I responded, "there's way more harms and fouls that already got me karmically saddled, thank you very much. This is tiddlywinks."

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Posts
    615

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Boz View Post
    Except for the part where he was counting.
    Oh yeah? Was he mouthing the words one, two, three? Is that it? Was he increasing his bets? Please let me know what I missed since both Zg and I read your post and were unimpressed that said player was counting given your description. Counting implies a raising of bets in positive expectation situations. WTF BOZ?

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Posts
    615

    Default

    And wow, had to look that latest racist insult up! Picked up on that True Romance scene, huh? You really are quite colorful with all your bigoted insults. A true, racist, bigoted, misogynist, affirmative-action liberal. Congratulations!

  13. #13
    Boz's Avatar
    Boz is offline Major Asshole Bet Welshing Loser - BANNED
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    1,240

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Villiam View Post
    Oh yeah? Was he mouthing the words one, two, three? Is that it? Was he increasing his bets? Please let me know what I missed since both Zg and I read your post and were unimpressed that said player was counting given your description. Counting implies a raising of bets in positive expectation situations. WTF BOZ?
    Zg wasn't "unimpressed." He was offering an alternate theory for this person's behavior because I did not provide evidence he was a counter and I appeared perplexed. Like any experienced player, Zg is WELL AWARE that a weak counter is INCREDIBLY EASY to spot with 100% accuracy. Your failed attempt to copy Zg's viewpoint and claim it as your own is most "unimpressive." And it shows you have virtually zero experience counting in the real world. He was counting because I said I was 100% sure he was, which is all the support it needs. Feel free to figure out what casino I was at and get the videotape if you don't believe it, troll. Mulignan is from the Sopranos, not True Romance, you dumb fucking eggplant.
    Last edited by Boz; August 12th, 2016 at 02:30 PM.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Midwest
    Posts
    1,464

    Default Villiam

    Quote Originally Posted by Villiam View Post
    Honestly, this is the way I've looked at it and all of us learn quickly that any play another player makes is inconsequential. The only thing of note is the gradual decrease of SCORE given the half to full table range. So, I often wonder, are the supposed agreed-upon ethics of card counters overblown? It seems a lot of APs get pissed at being in the presence of another AP and I just don't really get that assertion, esp. if they are the only two players at the table. It would seem to me they would have lots of collective action dilemmas and potentially meet up against a zero-sum game if one or the other player spread violently when the count got high. But I could also see two people who don't know each other, other than knowing the other is a counter, playing in perfect harmony at a table for hours, figuring out how to get ploppies to fuck off the whole night by being assholes together. Just a naive player's take here, but I'm trying to figure out what the actual ethics are.

    Also, by your account Boz, nothing about this guy you are talking about makes him a counter. Nothing.

    I could tell you fantastic and unbelievable stories of AP's that are friends playing together at the same table and cleaning house, not that I recommend it as a general practice.

    CP
    "Midwest Masters Of Advantage", "Strength and Honor."

+ Reply to Thread

Similar Threads

  1. Card counters and lawyers
    By zengrifter in forum Non-Casino Advantage Play
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: August 10th, 2016, 03:32 PM
  2. Question For Card Counters
    By Katz in forum Modern Blackjack
    Replies: 49
    Last Post: July 30th, 2016, 01:19 AM
  3. Casinos Tougher on Card Counters
    By Katz in forum Anything Else But
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: June 24th, 2014, 03:42 AM
  4. Blackjack Card Counters Anthem
    By Katweezel in forum Anything Else But
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: June 12th, 2012, 10:42 AM
  5. Card counters and lawyers
    By zengrifter in forum ZenZone General Discussion
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: July 17th, 2006, 06:53 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts