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Thread: HC Prank Post at BJTF?

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    Default HC Prank Post at BJTF?

    Yesterday I read a post at James' blog where one of the comments gave a link to a thread at BJTF. The poster at both sites used 2 different names. After looking at the thread, (A way to beat using holecarding) at BJTF I had to wonder if the OP was playing some kind of prank on the members over there. The OP was talking about wanting to holecard a game which appears to be baccarat, possibly in a private game is my only guess. The first response by BJGenius set the precedent for the "Wheelchair" and it took off from there like wildfire. I found it very amusing that so many people at BJTF got stuck on a "Wheelchair!" Bring in the Wheelchair man. I think Norman did the right thing by closing the thread but I got some good laughs. As McCallister3200 put it, "If you need to sit in a wheelchair or put your freaking face on the felt or sit like you're in a lazy boy don't be a damn idiot by outing yourself and wising up the casino, find a better game to play. Damn amateurs." I'm not a holecarding expert myself but McCallister had a good point. I've only seen 2 versions of baccarat in a casino. One where the player cannot touch the cards and the cards get re-used, and the 2nd version where the player who bets the most has control over the cards and can touch them, however the cards get thrown away after the shoe is spent. Most the Asians that I've seen play the one where they can touch the cards. They bend the fuck out of the cards because they get thrown away. http://www.metacafe.com/watch/778726...o_meets_lalin/
    Last edited by Blitzkrieg; August 3rd, 2016 at 04:02 PM.

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    Wow, listening to T3 talk about how he's the King of non-discrimination and everyone in a wheelchair is the same was a bit disgusting. Pretty sure everyone not in a wheelchair generally has it better than those who can't walk. T3's total failure to understand why it's morally reprehensible to pretend that you're handicapped is laughable, and indicates what kind of person he is (a charlatan or an idiot or he's autistic...take your pick). Keep in mind also that the hypocrite T3 has argued casino chips ARE a device, despite the fact that no state gaming commission would ever explicitly support that stance.

    That being said, since I was mentioned in the thread, I will address the point for any readers. Frank Galvin was on point and Moses' ethical concerns hold no legal merit. There's nothing illegal about using a wheelchair when you don't need one, merely to change your viewing angle of the cards. It probably would be technically illegal to get a seat at the full handicap table, but due to the low height, you wouldn't be doing that. Norm, yet again, like a complete idiot, declares what the law is--contrary to an expert opinion--and closes the thread when people start contradicting T3's questionable morality. Of course it could be argued the wheelchair is a device. It could be argued your brain is a device that runs on electricity. Unless you take them for a few a million, which you won't, they won't bother if that's their only argument. Because not only will they surely waste a ton of money losing an unwinnable case, the precarious device law could get struck down as unconstitutionally vague and open up the door to any device being legal until the law is rewritten. They might come up with some argument that you were cheating as their main thrust, if they deem it's worth the cost of the battle, but I don't see how they could win that either. It's all academic anyway, IMO. "I was using a wheelchair because my knee was acting up, not because I'm a cripple." "I was using a wheelchair because I felt dizzy, not because I'm a cripple." Kind of resolves everything, doesn't it? Until they pass a law that says you must be handicapped to use a wheelchair in public, the casino is out of luck. It's not even a close call. A more interesting question might be if the person is also pretending to be blind and slowing down the dealer. Would the delay in hands per hour amount to an accommodation; i.e. did you cause an unwarranted deviation from procedure? Would that be fraud? Too much subterfuge may eventually and inadvertently cross the legal line.
    Last edited by Boz; August 3rd, 2016 at 11:47 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Boz View Post
    There's nothing illegal about using a wheelchair when you don't need one, merely to change your viewing angle of the cards.
    These lawyers disagree -

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    Quote Originally Posted by zengrifter View Post
    I think that goes to what I said about the casino coming up with some argument that the player was cheating, as opposed to coming at the player with the device law. From stories I have heard from players I personally know, casinos certainly do treat even moderately successful hole-carders as if they are cheating criminals. But despite a couple lawyers apparently liking the scienter argument, I don't see how a casino could actually prevail in court. Additionally, although the article implicates using a wheelchair, I think that's for effect. It doesn't seem to be on-point with the issue of whether a wheelchair is a device or not (it isn't). The article is arguing that willful hole-carding itself is unlawful cheating. The unnecessary wheelchair would just be evidence of intent.
    Last edited by Boz; August 3rd, 2016 at 10:31 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Boz View Post
    I think that goes to what I said about the casino coming up with some argument that the player was cheating, as opposed to coming at the player with the device law. From stories I have heard from players I personally know, casinos certainly do treat even moderately successful hole-carders as if they are cheating criminals. But despite a couple lawyers apparently liking the scienter argument, I don't see how a casino could actually prevail in court. Additionally, although the article implicates using a wheelchair, I think that's for effect. It doesn't seem to be on-point with the issue of whether a wheelchair is a device or not (it isn't). The article is arguing that willful hole-carding itself is unlawful cheating. The unnecessary wheelchair would just be evidence of intent.
    Concur, I stand corrected counselor.
    Apparently both my wheelchair and my blindman plays are deemed morally repugnant by some?
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    Quote Originally Posted by zengrifter View Post
    Concur, I stand corrected counselor.
    Apparently both my wheelchair and my blindman plays are deemed morally repugnant by some?
    LOL, perhaps. But I would cherish your blindman plays til the day I die. I'd push a real blindman out of the way just to watch. Just because it's morally reprehensible doesn't mean I don't condone it. I'm sure the Autistic T3 wouldn't have any moral qualms.
    Last edited by Boz; August 3rd, 2016 at 11:43 PM.

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    Nice work trying to resolve a thread.

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