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    Jehovah’s Witnesses forced by British judge to allow their child a transfusion

    It’s been a long day, what with preparing to leave and all, but there’s some good news at the end of it. A short article in the Guardian reports that a British judge has ordered that the child of two Jehovah’s Witnesses, a child suffering from bad burns, undergo a transfusion. As you may know, the Witnesses refuse transfusions because of two Biblical verses abjuring the “eating of blood.” (They will allow transfusion of some components of blood, like hemoglobin, which of course means they’re cherry-picking even those verses.)

    What struck me is how polite the judge was. I’m not sure I’d have been able to restrain myself in the face of such religiously-inspired stupidity:
    [Mr. Justice] Moylan said he hoped that the boy’s parents would understand.

    “I am extremely grateful to [the boy’s] father for so clearly and calmly explaining to me the position held by himself and [the boy’s] mother,” said the judge.
    “I have no doubt at all that they love their son dearly. I also have no doubt that they object to the receipt by [their son] of a blood transfusion because of their devout beliefs. I hope they will understand why I have reached the decision which I have, governed as it is [their son’s] welfare.”

    I talk about this issue in detail in The Albatross, and, after reading about many such cases in the U.S. in which children, enduring or abiding by their parents’ religious beliefs, died, I am struck by two things. The first is that the parents usually either get off scot-free or are given a legal slap on the wrist, although if they withheld medical care on other than religious grounds they’d be punished severely for child abuse, mistreatment, or neglect.

    More:
    http://whyevolutionistrue.wordpress.com/2014/12/09/jehovahs-witnesses-forced-by-british-judge-to-allow-their-child-a-transfusion/

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    Default Not Crazy Christians, because they're Not Christian

    Quote Originally Posted by Katz View Post
    Jehovah’s Witnesses forced by British judge to allow their child a transfusionIt’s been a long day, what with preparing to leave and all, but there’s some good news at the end of it. A short article in the Guardian reports that a British judge has ordered that the child of two Jehovah’s Witnesses, a child suffering from bad burns, undergo a transfusion. As you may know, the Witnesses refuse transfusions because of two Biblical verses abjuring the “eating of blood.” (They will allow transfusion of some components of blood, like hemoglobin, which of course means they’re cherry-picking even those verses.)What struck me is how polite the judge was. I’m not sure I’d have been able to restrain myself in the face of such religiously-inspired stupidity:
    [Mr. Justice] Moylan said he hoped that the boy’s parents would understand.“I am extremely grateful to [the boy’s] father for so clearly and calmly explaining to me the position held by himself and [the boy’s] mother,” said the judge.“I have no doubt at all that they love their son dearly. I also have no doubt that they object to the receipt by [their son] of a blood transfusion because of their devout beliefs. I hope they will understand why I have reached the decision which I have, governed as it is [their son’s] welfare.”
    I talk about this issue in detail in The Albatross, and, after reading about many such cases in the U.S. in which children, enduring or abiding by their parents’ religious beliefs, died, I am struck by two things. The first is that the parents usually either get off scot-free or are given a legal slap on the wrist, although if they withheld medical care on other than religious grounds they’d be punished severely for child abuse, mistreatment, or neglect.More:
    http://whyevolutionistrue.wordpress.com/2014/12/09/jehovahs-witnesses-forced-by-british-judge-to-allow-their-child-a-transfusion/
    Mainstream Christians are unanimous in declaring Jesus Christ to be God, the second Person of the Blessed Trinity. Just honoring Jesus does not make one a Christian; even the Muslims honor Christ, but they are not Christians.

    The Jehovah's Witnesses do consider Jesus Christ to be the Son of God, but by Son of God they do not mean to imply that Jesus is God; on this most important tenet of mainstream Christianity they disagree; they deny that Jesus Christ is God. They also reject the Trinitarian nature of God. None of the denominations coming out of the Protestant Reformation, nor the Roman Catholic Church, nor Orthodoxy share these beliefs and so the Jehovah's Witnesses are considered by these to be a false religion. But be that as it may, their belief in not receiving blood transfusions is not a belief that derives from the teachings of Christ anyway, or one that is held by any of the mainstream Christian denominations, the Roman Catholic Church or Orthodoxy.

    Don't let crazy atheists convince you that this is a Christian idea. I am not calling atheists crazy, but some that are crazy will say anything to berate the Christian religion.
    Last edited by aslan; December 9th, 2014 at 10:03 PM.
    Aslan 11/1/90 - 6/15/10 Stormy 1/22/95 -8/23/10
    “There are not one hundred people in the United States who hate The Catholic Church,
    but there are millions who hate what they wrongly perceive the Catholic Church to be.”
    Bishop Fulton J. Sheen

    “It takes a very long time to become young.” Pablo Picasso

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    Quote Originally Posted by aslan View Post
    Mainstream Christians are unanimous in declaring Jesus Christ to be God, the second Person of the Blessed Trinity. Just honoring Jesus does not make one a Christian; even the Muslims honor Christ, but they are not Christians.

    The Jehovah's Witnesses do consider Jesus Christ to be the Son of God, but by Son of God they do not mean to imply that Jesus is God; on this most important tenet of mainstream Christianity they disagree; they deny that Jesus Christ is God. They also reject the Trinitarian nature of God. None of the denominations coming out of the Protestant Reformation, nor the Roman Catholic Church, nor Orthodoxy share these beliefs and so the Jehovah's Witnesses are considered by these to be a false religion. But be that as it may, their belief in not receiving blood transfusions is not a belief that derives from the teachings of Christ anyway, or one that is held by any of the mainstream Christian denominations, the Roman Catholic Church or Orthodoxy.

    Don't let crazy atheists convince you that this is a Christian idea. I am not calling atheists crazy, but some that are crazy will say anything to berate the Christian religion.


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    Quote Originally Posted by aslan View Post
    Mainstream Christians are unanimous in declaring Jesus Christ to be God, the second Person of the Blessed Trinity. Just honoring Jesus does not make one a Christian; even the Muslims honor Christ, but they are not Christians.

    The Jehovah's Witnesses do consider Jesus Christ to be the Son of God, but by Son of God they do not mean to imply that Jesus is God; on this most important tenet of mainstream Christianity they disagree; they deny that Jesus Christ is God. They also reject the Trinitarian nature of God. None of the denominations coming out of the Protestant Reformation, nor the Roman Catholic Church, nor Orthodoxy share these beliefs and so the Jehovah's Witnesses are considered by these to be a false religion. But be that as it may, their belief in not receiving blood transfusions is not a belief that derives from the teachings of Christ anyway, or one that is held by any of the mainstream Christian denominations, the Roman Catholic Church or Orthodoxy...
    I can't quite agree. Arianism, unitarianism, and related "heresies" all have legitimate basis and an honorable history in Christianity, despite not being orthodox or mainstream within modern organized churches.

    Jesus never asserted to be part of a trinity, nor did he claim to be God or an equal to God. But he did assert that he was subservient to the will of God, and prayed to God. He wasn't talking to himself. How much stock you put in the teachings of the Apostles and of St. Paul is optional for Christians per se, and I don't consider those guys to be peers of Jesus nor their writings to be given the same status as Jesus speaking through the Gospels. I also consider the Jehovah's Witnesses to be a false religion but for reasons other than their unitarianism.

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    MORE CRAZY CHRISTIANS...

    Scott Lively: Homosexuality Is Worse Than Murder


    SUBMITTED BY Brian Tashman on Tuesday, 12/2/2014

    Not only did anti-gay pastor Scott Lively describe homosexuality as an “infection” during his appearance yesterday on “Trunews,” but he also made the case that homosexuality should be considered worse than “murder or mass murder” since, according to Lively, it is to blame for Noah’s flood.

    Lively said that homosexuality is a Satanic attack “on the very essence of who we are” that God has deemed a more offensive abomination than mass killings: “When you look in the Bible, there are sins that you would think of as worse, you know, murder or mass murder, but what does it come down to? Leviticus 18 tells the Hebrews exactly what it is that God identifies as the most rebellious behavior, the behavior that causes the land to actually vomit out its inhabitants and every item on that list, except for child sacrifice, is sexual perversion, and child sacrifice is often a form of sexual perversion. So that’s where we are.”

    “Homosexuality is not just another sin,” he added, “it is the sin that defines rebellion against God, the outer edge of rebellion against God and it is the harbinger of God’s wrath, that’s why the Scripture gives the warning, ‘as in the days of Noah.’”




    - See more at: http://www.rightwingwatch.org/conten....VmraWNQR.dpuf

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    Quote Originally Posted by Automatic Monkey View Post
    I can't quite agree. Arianism, unitarianism, and related "heresies" all have legitimate basis and an honorable history in Christianity, despite not being orthodox or mainstream within modern organized churches.

    Jesus never asserted to be part of a trinity, nor did he claim to be God or an equal to God. But he did assert that he was subservient to the will of God, and prayed to God. He wasn't talking to himself. How much stock you put in the teachings of the Apostles and of St. Paul is optional for Christians per se, and I don't consider those guys to be peers of Jesus nor their writings to be given the same status as Jesus speaking through the Gospels. I also consider the Jehovah's Witnesses to be a false religion but for reasons other than their unitarianism.
    What makes you believe Jesus said anything at all? All we have to go on is that Iron-Age Hebrew book of fiction called the Bible. If it says in there somebody said something, I guess somebody said something then. This dubious character called Jesus apparently couldn't write, which is kinda odd for a supposed godman... don't you think? I mean, there's a great opportunity for ol Yahweh to clear up a whole heap of future conjecture and contradictions, by having his son (himself if you are a Catholic!) write stuff down hisself, rather than relying on other peoples' hearsay, or what Aslan presumes, scraps of paper. Even Uncle Jeeeezus reckons it's funny...



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    Quote Originally Posted by Automatic Monkey View Post
    Jesus never asserted to be part of a trinity, nor did he claim to be God or an equal to God. But he did assert that he was subservient to the will of God, and prayed to God. He wasn't talking to himself.
    Au contraire, mon ami. Saint Issa asserted: "I and the Father are ONE." He DID assert his avatarhood.
    Whether his assertion was meant to be exclusive however, is the subject of much debate around here.
    "The dogs bark but the caravan moves on."
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    The Zengrifter / James Grosjean Reputation Debate
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    “Truth, like gold, is obtained not by growth, but by washing away all that is not gold.” — Leo Tolstoy........
    "Is everything a conspiracy? No, just the important stuff." ZG

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    Quote Originally Posted by zengrifter View Post
    Au contraire, mon ami. Saint Issa asserted: "I and the Father are ONE." He DID assert his avatarhood.
    Whether his assertion was meant to be exclusive however, is the subject of much debate around here.
    TRINITY? Two out of three ain't bad...


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    This is what Yahweh had to say...

    ביום חמישי, 4.12.14, נסעו שני מתנחלים במכוניתם ליד מחסום ואדי א-נסארה שנועד לחסום כניסת...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Automatic Monkey View Post
    I can't quite agree. Arianism, unitarianism, and related "heresies" all have legitimate basis and an honorable history in Christianity, despite not being orthodox or mainstream within modern organized churches.

    Jesus never asserted to be part of a trinity, nor did he claim to be God or an equal to God. But he did assert that he was subservient to the will of God, and prayed to God. He wasn't talking to himself. How much stock you put in the teachings of the Apostles and of St. Paul is optional for Christians per se, and I don't consider those guys to be peers of Jesus nor their writings to be given the same status as Jesus speaking through the Gospels. I also consider the Jehovah's Witnesses to be a false religion but for reasons other than their unitarianism.
    It's a matter of perspective. From the point of view of someone in the mainstream Christian faith (as I am), no religion that goes by the name of Christian but denies the Godhead of Jesus Christ is considered legitimate. As for honorable, I believe that is beside the point. Many religions have an honorable history, but that does not speak to whether they are true or false. Arianism was hotly debated over the 3rd and 4th centuries but when it came down to a vote at the Council of Nicea (325 AD) only 2 out 300 (318 acc. to Athanasia) or so bishops voted against the Nicene Creed which condemned Arianism. The two holdouts were exiled and anathematized. That Jesus Christ is God has been maintained by mainstreams Christians ever since.

    Your interpretation of whether Jesus claimed to be God or not is different than mine, which accords with the understanding of the Roman Catholic Church which I believe to be free from error on the promise of Christ. We can argue until the cows come home, but that will not change either of our positions. Also, I do not believe as you that the teachings of the apostles, including St. Paul, is optional, nor the writing of any other writers in the New Testament when it comes to defining Christian doctrine.
    Last edited by aslan; December 10th, 2014 at 02:54 PM.
    Aslan 11/1/90 - 6/15/10 Stormy 1/22/95 -8/23/10
    “There are not one hundred people in the United States who hate The Catholic Church,
    but there are millions who hate what they wrongly perceive the Catholic Church to be.”
    Bishop Fulton J. Sheen

    “It takes a very long time to become young.” Pablo Picasso

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    Quote Originally Posted by aslan View Post
    ...no religion that ... denies the Godhead of Jesus Christ is considered legitimate. As for honorabl... Many religions have an honorable history, but that does not speak to whether they are true or false. Arianism was hotly debated over the 3rd and 4th centuries but when it came down to a vote at the Council of Nicea (325 AD) only 2 out 300 (318 acc. to Athanasia) or so bishops voted against the Nicene Creed which condemned Arianism. The two holdouts were exiled and anathematized.
    Arius was the defender of ORIGINAL Christianity ans was later exonerated.
    Context Monsignor, context!

    Arius asserted that the Son of God was a subordinate entity to God the Father.
    ..... Deemed a heretic by the Ecumenical First Council of Nicaea of 325,
    .......... Arius was later exonerated in 335 at the regional First Synod of Tyre
    "The dogs bark but the caravan moves on."
    .....................The Zengrifter Interview (PDF) |
    The Zengrifter / James Grosjean Reputation Debate
    -----------------------------------------
    “Truth, like gold, is obtained not by growth, but by washing away all that is not gold.” — Leo Tolstoy........
    "Is everything a conspiracy? No, just the important stuff." ZG

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    Quote Originally Posted by zengrifter View Post
    Arius was the defender of ORIGINAL Christianity ans was later exonerated.
    Context Monsignor, context!

    Arius asserted that the Son of God was a subordinate entity to God the Father.
    ..... Deemed a heretic by the Ecumenical First Council of Nicaea of 325,
    .......... Arius was later exonerated in 335 at the regional First Synod of Tyre
    Not exonerated. Arianism never triumphed in Christianity. Don't confuse politics with religious faith. You need to take a look at the entire story, not just snippets. His so-called exoneration marked a period of Church persecution.

    He [Arius] must have been of great age when, after fruitless negotiations and a visit to Egypt, he appeared in 325 at Nicaea, where the confession of faith which he presented was torn in pieces. With his writings and followers he underwent the anathemas subscribed by more than 300 bishops. He was banished into Illyricum. Two prelates shared his fate, Tehonas of Marmarica and Secundus of Ptolemais. His books were burnt. The Arians, joined by their old Meletian friends, created troubles in Alexandria. Eusebius persuaded Constantine to recall the exile by indulgent letters in 328; and the emperor not only permitted his return to Alexandria in 331, but ordered Athanasius to reconcile him with the Church. On the saint's refusal more disturbance ensued. The packed and partisan Synod of Tyre deposed Athanasius on a series of futile charges in 335. Catholics were now persecuted; Arius had an interview with Constantine and submitted a creed which the emperor judged to be orthodox. By imperial rescript Arius required Alexander of Constantinople to give him Communion; but the stroke of Providence defeated an attempt which Catholics looked upon as sacrilege. The heresiarch died suddenly, and was buried by his own people. http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/01718a.htm

    Needless to say, the politics of the day did not change the teaching of the Church.

    Athanasius died in 373; but his cause triumphed at Constantinople, long an Arian city, first by the preaching of St. Gregory Nazianzen, then in the Second General Council (381), at the opening of which Meletius of Antioch presided. This saintly man had been estranged from the Nicene champions during a long schism; but he made peace with Athanasius, and now, in company of St. Cyril of Jerusalem, represented a moderate influence which won the day. No deputies appeared from the West. Meletius died almost immediately. St. Gregory Nazianzen, who took his place, very soon resigned. A creed embodying the Nicene was drawn up by St. Gregory of Nyssa, but it is not the one that is chanted at Mass, the latter being due, it is said, to St. Epiphanius and the Church of Jerusalem. The Council became ecumenical by acceptance of the Pope and the ever-orthodox Westerns. From this moment Arianism in all its forms lost its place within the Empire. http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/01707c.htm
    Aslan 11/1/90 - 6/15/10 Stormy 1/22/95 -8/23/10
    “There are not one hundred people in the United States who hate The Catholic Church,
    but there are millions who hate what they wrongly perceive the Catholic Church to be.”
    Bishop Fulton J. Sheen

    “It takes a very long time to become young.” Pablo Picasso

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    CHRISTIANITY: BASED ON BIBLE DREAMS.

    From how many times dreams and vision are mentioned in the Bible, it's obvious Yahweh was very impressed with dreams and visions... not to mentions visitations in dreams or not in dreams by angels. Behold, I present the origin of the Virgin Birth: A DREAM. LOL. Joseph had four dreams where he allegedly received divine inspiration. Yeah, right, Uncle Joe.


    Matthew 2 19-23
    But when Herod was dead, behold, an angel of the Lord appears in a dream to Joseph in Egypt...

    "And while he thought of these things, behold, the Angel of the Lord appeared to him saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife, for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost. And she shall bring forth a son... blah blah"

    So there we have it. Angels and dreams are the foundations of Christianity. You gotta have faith, brother.

    26 In the sixth month of Elizabeth’s pregnancy, God sent the angel Gabriel to Nazareth, a town in Galilee, 27 to a virgin pledged to be married to a man named Joseph, a descendant of David. The virgin’s name was Mary. 28 The angel went to her and said, “Greetings, you who are highly favored! The Lord is with you.”

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    Quote Originally Posted by Katz View Post
    CHRISTIANITY: BASED ON BIBLE DREAMS.

    From how many times dreams and vision are mentioned in the Bible, it's obvious Yahweh was very impressed with dreams and visions... not to mentions visitations in dreams or not in dreams by angels. Behold, I present the origin of the Virgin Birth: A DREAM. LOL. Joseph had four dreams where he allegedly received divine inspiration. Yeah, right, Uncle Joe.


    Matthew 2 19-23
    But when Herod was dead, behold, an angel of the Lord appears in a dream to Joseph in Egypt...

    "And while he thought of these things, behold, the Angel of the Lord appeared to him saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife, for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost. And she shall bring forth a son... blah blah"

    So there we have it. Angels and dreams are the foundations of Christianity. You gotta have faith, brother.

    26 In the sixth month of Elizabeth’s pregnancy, God sent the angel Gabriel to Nazareth, a town in Galilee, 27 to a virgin pledged to be married to a man named Joseph, a descendant of David. The virgin’s name was Mary. 28 The angel went to her and said, “Greetings, you who are highly favored! The Lord is with you.”
    Angels are messengers. That is what the name means. When God, who is a supernatural being, wants to send a message to a human, he uses a supernatural being, called an angel, to deliver the message. An angel asked Mary if she would be the Mother of Jesus. An angel told Zachery that his wife would bear a child in her old age. An angel told Joseph in a dream it was all right to marry Mary since the child she was bearing was from God. An angel told the shepherds where the infant Jesus could be found. An angel warned Joseph in a dream to flee into Egypt. An angel told the disciples that Jesus had risen from the dead. Angels are not the foundation of Christianity, but they are used by God to communicate with men.
    Aslan 11/1/90 - 6/15/10 Stormy 1/22/95 -8/23/10
    “There are not one hundred people in the United States who hate The Catholic Church,
    but there are millions who hate what they wrongly perceive the Catholic Church to be.”
    Bishop Fulton J. Sheen

    “It takes a very long time to become young.” Pablo Picasso

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    Quote Originally Posted by aslan View Post
    Angels are messengers. That is what the name means. When God, who is a supernatural being, wants to send a message to a human, he uses a supernatural being, called an angel, to deliver the message. An angel asked Mary if she would be the Mother of Jesus. An angel told Zachery that his wife would bear a child in her old age. An angel told Joseph in a dream it was all right to marry Mary since the child she was bearing was from God. An angel told the shepherds where the infant Jesus could be found. An angel warned Joseph in a dream to flee into Egypt. An angel told the disciples that Jesus had risen from the dead. Angels are not the foundation of Christianity, but they are used by God to communicate with men.
    If I publicly announced God told me something, (just like Dubya and Pat Robertson did) and not only that, an angel visited me with a message as well, I would be advised to see a psychiatrist and branded as a lunatic. That's how much we have evolved. But because some anon writers wrote exactly that kind of stuff sprinkled liberally throughout the Bible, it is considered the Word of God. Yahweh was apparently very partial to using dreams, visions and... angels in his book. LOL

    PS Mormons believe their 'prophet' Joe Smith had a visitation from Angel Moroni (or was it Angel Moron) who told him where to look to find some buried golden tablets. LOL. Muslims bleeve Angel Gabriel I think it was, delivered the Koran over a coupla years to Mo. No doubt you noticed the same principle of Bullshit is also operative in those other fine religions.
    Last edited by Katz; December 10th, 2014 at 11:22 PM. Reason: Seer stones

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