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Thread: More Crazy Christians

  1. #16
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    Default More Crazy Christians: Pastor John Hagee

    Note Fat Jerry Falwell oozing there in the background...

    Last edited by Katz; December 11th, 2014 at 01:12 AM.

  2. #17
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    Aslan, I was surprised to read you never heard of Hagee, seeing as he's been a prolific writer on End Times as well as speaking on the AIPAC platform. Hagee is a mad Fundy fruitloop for Israel, which is why they love him...
    ANOTHER CRAZY CHRISTIAN


    Last edited by Katz; December 11th, 2014 at 01:35 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by aslan View Post
    It's a matter of perspective. From the point of view of someone in the mainstream Christian faith (as I am), no religion that goes by the name of Christian but denies the Godhead of Jesus Christ is considered legitimate. As for honorable, I believe that is beside the point. Many religions have an honorable history, but that does not speak to whether they are true or false. Arianism was hotly debated over the 3rd and 4th centuries but when it came down to a vote at the Council of Nicea (325 AD) only 2 out 300 (318 acc. to Athanasia) or so bishops voted against the Nicene Creed which condemned Arianism. The two holdouts were exiled and anathematized. That Jesus Christ is God has been maintained by mainstreams Christians ever since.

    Your interpretation of whether Jesus claimed to be God or not is different than mine, which accords with the understanding of the Roman Catholic Church which I believe to be free from error on the promise of Christ. We can argue until the cows come home, but that will not change either of our positions. Also, I do not believe as you that the teachings of the apostles, including St. Paul, is optional, nor the writing of any other writers in the New Testament when it comes to defining Christian doctrine.
    Of course, totally a matter of perspective. I consider it similar to the differences between the Catholic and Orthodox churches, both of which claim to be true to the authentic teachings of Christ, as do the Arians. I respect it all.

    The reason why I'm on the Arian side is that Jesus was a Jew and preached exclusively to Jews, and was not telling them anything new to them. Everything he taught was a valid interpretation of Jewish law and fulfillment of their prophecies. (On the few occasions he spoke to Gentiles he did not preach Judaism to them, he just healed them and told them of the power of faith and the greatness of God.) Being a religion where he was God would be so far out in left field for them, and a blasphemy in Judaism (which the Pharisees falsely accused him of) I don't believe he was teaching that.

    For a long time after Nicaea Arian Christianity was dominant in Western Europe. I guess the Visigoths never got the memo.

  4. #19
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    JESUS COULD NOT BE GOD as is clear with many references. "Forgive them Father..." To whom was he praying, himself?

    "You heard that I said to you, ‘I go away, and I will come to you.’ If you loved Me, you would have rejoiced, because I go to the Father...

    for the Father is greater than I.'" (
    John 14:28).

    "The Father and I are one."

    Even the Sikhs know a thing or two...

    Sikh Views on Christianity

    Q: Is Jesus God?
    A: Sikhs respectfully disagree with some Christians who believe that Jesus is God. According to Sikhism, Jesus or any other person who took birth in this world is not God. Sikhism has a clear description of God. "God is One. He is the Supreme Truth. He the Creator, is without fear and without hate. He is immortal. He is neither born and nor does He die.

    By Guru's grace shall He be met. Chant And Meditate on His Name. In the beginning, He was the Truth. Throughout the ages, He has been the Truth. He is the Truth now and He shall be the Truth forever" (Guru Granth Sahib Ji, 1). "He has no form, no shape, no color; God is beyond these three qualities. One understands Him, O Nanak, with whom God is pleased" (Guru Granth Sahib Ji, 283).

    Jesus took birth and had physical human form, therefore, Sikhism instructs that Jesus cannot be God since God does not take birth and nor does He die. Any individual who has taken birth in the history of mankind including Sikh Gurus, Jesus, Mohammed, and Buddha are not God. Sikhs however do not discount that Jesus is a prophet and like Sikh Gurus may be one with God.

    A much-used analogy to describe this is that of an ocean. If God is like an ocean, then our soul is like a drop of water taken from the ocean. The drop of water can become one with the ocean but can never be label as the ocean itself. A human soul can become one with God and attain salvation but can never be label as God Himself. Jesus could have been one with God but not God Himself.

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  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katz View Post
    If I publicly announced God told me something, (just like Dubya and Pat Robertson did) and not only that, an angel visited me with a message as well, I would be advised to see a psychiatrist and branded as a lunatic. That's how much we have evolved. But because some anon writers wrote exactly that kind of stuff sprinkled liberally throughout the Bible, it is considered the Word of God. Yahweh was apparently very partial to using dreams, visions and... angels in his book. LOL

    PS Mormons believe their 'prophet' Joe Smith had a visitation from Angel Moroni (or was it Angel Moron) who told him where to look to find some buried golden tablets. LOL. Muslims bleeve Angel Gabriel I think it was, delivered the Koran over a coupla years to Mo. No doubt you noticed the same principle of Bullshit is also operative in those other fine religions.
    That certain people had visions, such as the three children at Fatima in 1917, I have no doubt. We look at the lives of the people that claim to have had the visions, we look at the message that was delivered, and we look for any circumstances that might serve to validate the message. If Mary had claimed to have been visited by an angel, and then her son had grown up to be nothing but a carpenter, we would say that she imagined it all. If Saul of Tarsus had done nothing of consequence after he heard Christ's voice on the way to Damascus, we would attribute it to an overactive imagination. But the incredible things that followed these events leads one to believe in their veracity, not that they are the basis for belief, because the persons' later deeds, first Jesus and then Saul, speak for themselves.

    What happened that would lead anyone to believe Pat Roberson or George Bush? Were they not asking God for a discernment of his will when they imagined they heard God speak to them "in their hearts" since neither claimed an audible voice was heard? I believe I hear from God all the time as he speaks in my heart, but I have enough sense to understand that it may also be my imagination. I test what I think I hear in my heart with what I know about God from the scriptures and from the teachings of his Church. For example, if I thought I heard God say to rob the bank at 5th and Elm Street, I would dismiss it altogether, since it is not consistent with what we know about God and his revelations. But if I thought I heard God say in my heart I should pray more, I would give that notion more significance and I would ask myself whether or not this seems to be something that really fits me and my life circumstances. We call this discernment. Did God really speak to Pat Robertson about why Haiti was destroyed. I have my doubts. People in his denomination, if you can call it that, are prone to imagining greater "communication" with the Almighty than facts would warrant. They are sincere, but perhaps too willing to believe when a more rational man would put such notions on the shelf and be wary not to lead others to believe what might be a lie. The fact of being a religious leader that many looked to for answers might have tipped the scale in his case to his sharing what he "thought" was God with a certainty that seldom accompanies such messages. I'd say he was off the deep end. Did God really tell Bush to invade Iraq? I have even more serious doubts. In the first case, God does not always allow some disaster to occur because the victim did something bad, for example, the suffering of his own Son. Second, the invasion of Iraq seems to be an immoral action on the part of the US since there was no imminent threat to our country and therefore not an act of self defense, so it seems possible that Bush was so uncomfortable with such a decision that he sought consolation in believing God told him to do it. In short, even though I believe God can send angels to tell people things, or even directly tell them, I believe such claims need to be scrutinized in the light of the person receiving the message and the circumstances surrounding the message.
    Last edited by aslan; December 11th, 2014 at 11:18 AM.
    Aslan 11/1/90 - 6/15/10 Stormy 1/22/95 -8/23/10
    “There are not one hundred people in the United States who hate The Catholic Church,
    but there are millions who hate what they wrongly perceive the Catholic Church to be.”
    Bishop Fulton J. Sheen

    “It takes a very long time to become young.” Pablo Picasso

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by aslan View Post
    That certain people had visions, such as the three children at Fatima in 1917, I have no doubt. We look at the lives of the people that claim to have had the visions, we look at the message that was delivered, and we look for any circumstances that might serve to validate the message. If Mary had claimed to have been visited by an angel, and then her son had grown up to be nothing but a carpenter, we would say that she imagined it all. If Saul of Tarsus had done nothing of consequence after he heard Christ's voice on the way to Damascus, we would attribute it to an overactive imagination. But the incredible things that followed these events leads one to believe in their veracity, not that they are the basis for belief, because the persons' later deeds, first Jesus and then Saul, speak for themselves.

    What happened that would lead anyone to believe Pat Roberson or George Bush? Were they not asking God for a discernment of his will when they imagined they heard God speak to them "in their hearts" since neither claimed an audible voice was heard? I believe I hear from God all the time as he speaks in my heart, but I have enough sense to understand that it may also be my imagination. I test what I think I hear in my heart with what I know about God from the scriptures and from the teachings of his Church. For example, if I thought I heard God say to rob the bank at 5th and Elm Street, I would dismiss it altogether, since it is not consistent with what we know about God and his revelations. But if I thought I heard God say in my heart I should pray more, I would give that notion more significance and I would ask myself whether or not this seems to be something that really fits me and my life circumstances. We call this discernment. Did God really speak to Pat Robertson about why Haiti was destroyed. I have my doubts. People in his denomination, if you can call it that, are prone to imagining greater "communication" with the Almighty than facts would warrant. They are sincere, but perhaps too willing to believe when a more rational man would put such notions on the shelf and be wary not to lead others to believe what might be a lie. The fact of being a religious leader that many looked to for answers might have tipped the scale in his case to his sharing what he "thought" was God with a certainty that seldom accompanies such messages. I'd say he was off the deep end. Did God really tell Bush to invade Iraq? I have even more serious doubts. In the first case, God does not always allow some disaster to occur because the victim did something bad, for example, the suffering of his own Son. Second, the invasion of Iraq seems to be an immoral action on the part of the US since there was no imminent threat to our country and therefore not an act of self defense, so it seems possible that Bush was so uncomfortable with such a decision that he sought consolation in believing God told him to do it. In short, even though I believe God can send angels to tell people things, or even directly tell them, I believe such claims need to be scrutinized in the light of the person receiving the message and the circumstances surrounding the message.
    Yes,long ago the three very young, country yokels, uneducated, naive, gullible, mere children thought they saw something weird. Hmmm.

  8. #23
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    MORE CHRISTIAN MADNESS...

    Yesterday down near the beach where there are a lot of large rocks where people like to paint stuff, along a long walkway, I notice a guy about 40 repairing his painted sign that read: JESUS IS MY FRIEND. Some wag had added "GAY." I stop for a chat and he says he is continuing to paint his messages from Jesus on the rocks. I note the usual supercilious, over-confident, arrogant, sanctimonious, shit-eating grin that I am pretty much familiar with in deranged Christian fundies.

    In the end he waffles on about how evil the Internet is because according to him, the Hebrews liked to affix numbers to their alphabet and WWW. adds up to 666.
    After I find out which weird Cult of Death he is attached to, it's: SEVENTH DAY ADVENTISTS. Another bunch of fruit and nut cakes.
    Last edited by Katz; December 11th, 2014 at 08:28 PM. Reason: Jeeeezes the crock

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katz View Post
    MORE CHRISTIAN MADNESS...

    Yesterday down near the beach where there are a lot of large rocks where people like to paint stuff, along a long walkway, I notice a guy about 40 repairing his painted sign that read: JESUS IS MY FRIEND. Some wag had added "GAY." I stop for a chat and he says he is continuing to paint his messages from Jesus on the rocks. I note the usual supercilious, over-confident, arrogant, sanctimonious, shit-eating grin that I am pretty much familiar with in deranged Christian fundies.

    In the end he waffles on about how evil the Internet is because according to him, the Hebrews liked to affix numbers to their alphabet and WWW. adds up to 666.
    After I find out which weird Cult of Death he is attached to, it's: SEVENTH DAY ADVENTISTS. Another bunch of fruit and nut cakes.
    No serious Christian that I know would be defacing rocks with messages. Basically, we believe in living our lives in such a way as to bring credit to our faith.

    The evil Internet? It's a vehicle for communication, nothing more.

    The unfortunate thing about technological progress is that people and countries do not always use the advancements for good. Nuclear weapons come to mind. And nuclear power plants that to some extent, despite myriads of regulations, put profit over safety in many cases, with nukes located next to major population centers and on or near earthquake fault lines. For this reason, I do not get too excited over scientific advancements anymore, because whatever the promise, there always seems to be a downside that outweighs the gain. The real advancement needs to be made in the hearts and minds of men and women-- then we will be able to use science solely for the benefit, and not the detriment, of mankind.
    Aslan 11/1/90 - 6/15/10 Stormy 1/22/95 -8/23/10
    “There are not one hundred people in the United States who hate The Catholic Church,
    but there are millions who hate what they wrongly perceive the Catholic Church to be.”
    Bishop Fulton J. Sheen

    “It takes a very long time to become young.” Pablo Picasso

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by aslan View Post
    No serious Christian that I know would be defacing rocks with messages. Basically, we believe in living our lives in such a way as to bring credit to our faith.

    The evil Internet? It's a vehicle for communication, nothing more.

    The unfortunate thing about technological progress is that people and countries do not always use the advancements for good. Nuclear weapons come to mind. And nuclear power plants that to some extent, despite myriads of regulations, put profit over safety in many cases, with nukes located next to major population centers and on or near earthquake fault lines. For this reason, I do not get too excited over scientific advancements anymore, because whatever the promise, there always seems to be a downside that outweighs the gain. The real advancement needs to be made in the hearts and minds of men and women-- then we will be able to use science solely for the benefit, and not the detriment, of mankind.
    Meanwhile... JESUS IS MY GAY FRIEND

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katz View Post
    Meanwhile... JESUS IS MY GAY FRIEND
    I don't understand your comment. Jesus wasn't gay; are you?
    Aslan 11/1/90 - 6/15/10 Stormy 1/22/95 -8/23/10
    “There are not one hundred people in the United States who hate The Catholic Church,
    but there are millions who hate what they wrongly perceive the Catholic Church to be.”
    Bishop Fulton J. Sheen

    “It takes a very long time to become young.” Pablo Picasso

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by aslan View Post
    No serious Christian that I know would be defacing rocks with messages. Basically, we believe in living our lives in such a way as to bring credit to our faith....
    Funny you mention that...
    Name:  SANY0038.jpg
Views: 60
Size:  100.1 KB

    You won't believe where I took that photo- in Athens last year, at the foundation of the church built by St. Dionysius and St. Paul on the Areopagus outside of the Acropolis.

    Along with the act of graffiti on such a historically significant place, rejecting Erasmus for fighting really annoyed me.

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Automatic Monkey View Post
    Funny you mention that...
    Attachment 28404

    You won't believe where I took that photo- in Athens last year, at the foundation of the church built by St. Dionysius and St. Paul on the Areopagus outside of the Acropolis.

    Along with the act of graffiti on such a historically significant place, rejecting Erasmus for fighting really annoyed me.
    Sorry, my screen doesn't flip. Whatever he or she wrote, I do not believe in defacing anything let alone a church.
    Aslan 11/1/90 - 6/15/10 Stormy 1/22/95 -8/23/10
    “There are not one hundred people in the United States who hate The Catholic Church,
    but there are millions who hate what they wrongly perceive the Catholic Church to be.”
    Bishop Fulton J. Sheen

    “It takes a very long time to become young.” Pablo Picasso

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    Quote Originally Posted by aslan View Post
    Sorry, my screen doesn't flip. Whatever he or she wrote, I do not believe in defacing anything let alone a church.
    OK if it's faith-based... And btw, somebody defaced the brick wall of a Catholic church near me with "Pedos". The sins of the church never go away...

    Last edited by Katz; December 12th, 2014 at 05:33 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Katz View Post
    OK if it's faith-based... And btw, somebody defaced the brick wall of a Catholic church near me with "Pedos". The sins of the church never go away...

    The Spanish Inquisition? Do you mean that initiative of Catholic hierarchy to root out heresy from among member of the Catholic Church? Do you have anything recent to bloviate about?
    Aslan 11/1/90 - 6/15/10 Stormy 1/22/95 -8/23/10
    “There are not one hundred people in the United States who hate The Catholic Church,
    but there are millions who hate what they wrongly perceive the Catholic Church to be.”
    Bishop Fulton J. Sheen

    “It takes a very long time to become young.” Pablo Picasso

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