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Thread: 1378 Stu Ungar's way

  1. #1

    Default 1378 Stu Ungar's way

    I always wondered how someone could accurately tell the value and the suit of the bottom or unknown card that is pulled out of a single deck of cards. After I heard Mike Sexton talk about this method that Stu did in which he won a large bet I had to give it a go and practiced this method for several hours of counting up a single deck of cards and did it for the first time today.

    If you want a challenge give it a try.

    K K K K 49-52

    Q Q Q Q 45-48

    J J J J 41-44

    10 10 10 10 37-40

    9 9 9 9 33-36

    8 8 8 8 29-32

    7 7 7 7 25-28

    6 6 6 6 21-24

    5 5 5 5 17-20

    4 4 4 4 13-16

    3 3 3 3 9-12

    2 2 2 2 5-8

    A A A A 1-4

    Last edited by zengrifter; October 5th, 2014 at 01:22 AM.

  2. #2

    Default A simple variation

    First off the guy that wrote this article did NOT come up with this trick for determining the last card in a single deck of cards. However I like this variation method but by grouping all of the cards by suit a person could tell what the missing card is by suit automatically and there would be no need to count up the cards that compromise a grouping of 13 cards. All a person would have to do is find the grouping that has 12 cards and then count up that one grouping to find the value and suit of the missing card. Personally, I like a randomized 52 card deck in which to do this trick, although subtracting from 1378 to end up with a total from 52-1 would make it a bitch instead of adding. http://mt.artofmemory.com/forums/dec...ease-2813.html "I came up with a method for detecting the missing card in a deck (this only works when one card is removed not more) which is based on simple arithmetic, but I would appreciate some help with it. One simple method would be to assign a different value to every card, from 1 to 52, and then subtract it from the total sum of 1 to 52 (1378) until you go through the entire deck and are left with a number between 1 to 52, which corresponds to the missing card. You could also add them if subtracting is trickier, and you'd be left with a number between 1326 and 1377, and the difference from 1378 would correspond to the card. The problem with this method, assuming we already have the cards assigned to the numbers, is that keeping a running sum up to, or down from, 1378 isn't easy to do quickly, and one slip will result in the wrong answer.My improvement is to have 4 separate running totals, for each of the suits, each adding up to just 91 (sum of 1-13). So, let's say you subtract each card you see from the corresponding total for that suit, then when you go through the deck you'll have 3 suits with a total of 0 and one with a total of 1-13, giving you the missing card instantly (1 left in the clubs total = ace of clubs). Great, any second grader can accomplish that.Here is the part where I need help though: what would be a good method to keep track of of the 4 totals at the same time? Is there a technique that would work for this? I want it to be based on arithmetic which would then give the missing card instantly, without having to create images and then go through the cards again. Grandmaster George Koltanowski could play blindfolded against 56 chess players at the same time, so surely 4 running totals shouldn't be a challenge...Thanks ahead." This guy has never heard of Tarzan. Even with keeping 4 running totals finding the unknown card would still be based on simple arithmetic and memory. There would be no need to go through the cards again if a person can add, subtract, or has a photographic memory. Apparently Jesus, as in Chris Ferguson demonstrated this trick awhile back. I wonder how he did it, or was it all just sleight-of-hand for the camera (how Chris did it)? Can't find the video and I don't need a salad shooter.
    Last edited by Blitzkrieg; December 12th, 2014 at 09:58 AM.

  3. #3


    Name:  hilo.jpg
Views: 1098
Size:  10.9 KBThis thought came to me today for some reason, it's a hand mapping sequence using a HiLo structure that allows a player to determine what the bottom card is without any addition, subtraction, or card value memorization using a single deck, pretty easy right? Too easy. Mike Sexton doesn't realize just how easy it really is. First, know the structure in which cards will be placed face down one at a time according to suit and sequence (HiLo). My top rank is all Diamonds, then clubs, hearts, and spades. There are 3 key cards in every rank and suit being 4, 8, & Queen which represent the middle card of the 3 groupings within 4 ranks which I lay out in front of me to create the map with the cards. It is important to place "every" key card straight up and down in the 4 ranks as a reference. Only one card is turned over at a time and then placed face down when forming the so called map, when I get down to the bottom card I know exactly which suit, rank, and value of the card I have left. As groupings are completed I collapse the grouping to let me know that all the cards are accounted for to make it even easier. Get ready to laugh at my mapping layout. The placement of the sister cards that are to the left and right of the key cards have to be laid face down in an arc pattern since there can be nothing labeled on the table as a reference point. 4 ranks & 4 suits in sequential order, 8 straight flushes, and 12 cards that don't amount to jack.
    Last edited by Blitzkrieg; September 9th, 2015 at 12:08 AM.

  4. #4


    There are an infinite number of ways to solve this puzzle by creating a mosaic. It took quite a few years to see and understand such a simple concept with a single deck of cards when it has starred me in the face for years.
    Last edited by Blitzkrieg; September 8th, 2015 at 01:05 AM.

  5. #5


    Taking another look at this I realize it would not be difficult to do 6 or 8 decks by going 3 dimensional, stop half way and be able to call out every remaining unseen card in the shoe by suit and value with 100% accuracy. This could also be done while maintaining a count for accuracy in that area as well. Doing a single deck and being able to call out 8 unseen cards by suit and value with 100% accuracy is to easy.
    Last edited by Blitzkrieg; September 9th, 2015 at 01:28 AM.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Los Angeles, CA


    Ken Uston used this as a prop bet as well. Here's Ed Thorp explaining how:



  7. #7
    Join Date
    Oct 2011


    Sonny, good to see you here!
    After over 10000 BS bragging posts, it turns out that T3 doesn't even play BJ! What a damn joke, LOL!
    T3 is no threat to any casino because he spends most of his time bragging on BTF.
    T3: Talk The Talk.

  8. #8


    Quote Originally Posted by Sonny View Post
    Ken Uston used this as a prop bet as well. Here's Ed Thorp explaining how:


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  9. #9


    Quote Originally Posted by Sonny View Post
    Ken Uston used this as a prop bet as well. Here's Ed Thorp explaining how:


    I intend to use it as a prop bet as well. I wasn't sure if Uston ever dabbled with this but now I know. It seems like Chris Ferguson used the technique described in the link you provided from reading old 2+2 Forum articles regarding this topic with Stu Ungar. I have to believe that Ferguson read Thorps article. I learned this thru Mike Sexton via Stu Ungar and was able to put my own little spin on it after enough time to accomplish the same task. It's interesting to see Thorp's input. I'll have to try Thorp's way.
    Last edited by Blitzkrieg; August 6th, 2016 at 05:27 PM.

  10. #10

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