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Thread: Prominent Jews & Israelis Who Denounce Gaza Slaughter

  1. #16
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    "ZG's 'Cesspool of Hatred' is alive and well, I see." -- prominent zionist rebbi

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    Quote Originally Posted by aslan View Post
    anti-zionism is largely a masked form of anti-semitism.
    i am tending to agree, it's a fine line and a slippery slope.

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    "DEATH TO EVERYONE" ~ Anon

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    Quote Originally Posted by Katz View Post
    "DEATH TO EVERYONE" ~ Anon
    Define "everyone"

    Colonial Inversion and The MYTH of Equal Culpability


    On July 15, Western media demanded that Hamas and other resistance groups operating in the Gaza Strip accept what they labeled an “Israeli-Egyptian ceasefire proposal.” On the surface, the call sounds reasonable, which is exactly what allows it to disorient audiences largely unfamiliar with the details of the ongoing conflict.

    The first objection is the obvious one: How can Hamas agree to a deal that it played no part in negotiating and that was crafted by two of its enemies? The mainstream media would be unlikely to demand that Israel agree to an arrangement jointly put forth by, say, Hamas and Iran — an imperfect analogy, since Hamas and Iran do not colonize and besiege Israelis. But the point stands.

    The myth of Palestinians who refuse generous offers is longstanding within Zionist historiography — exemplified in the longstanding lie of Palestinians “never missing an opportunity to miss an opportunity.”

    This colonial inversion of reality is likewise present in Western reporting on the conflict, which must justify the Israeli assault on Palestine to its audience. For example, earlier in the current massacre we were frequently told that “both sides” fighting in historic Palestine are suffering and are in the wrong.

    This rhetoric of “both sides” implies that pain and fault belong equally to Palestinians and Israelis. It erases manifold, unmistakable, qualitative and quantitative differences at play in Israel’s attack on the Gaza Strip and the political-historical context in which this is taking place — most centrally, that what is occurring is part of a settler-colonial invasion.

    “Both sides” rhetoric refuses to make even the easiest, most obvious judgment, to which any honest evaluation of the information points: that Israel is massacring Palestinian adults and children, 77% of whom are civilians, and subjecting them to collective punishment; that Israel evidently claims for itself a right to extra-judicially execute anyone who it says is a Hamas member, a practice too few among even Palestine’s allies have denounced; that Israel is bombarding what is essentially a giant refugee camp home to an imprisoned population of a people Israel has ethnically cleansed, occupied, subjected to apartheid, and repeatedly slaughtered; that international law does not grant Israel a “right to defend itself” against the Gaza Strip. And that international law does grant Palestinians a right to resist using armed struggle.

    To employ “both sides” rhetoric completely misrepresents the situation. It is not “both sides” who take thousands of political prisoners. Both sides do not systematically torture each other. Both sides do not control each other’s freedom of movement, or access to the sea, drinking water, and education.

    >
    https://www.jacobinmag.com/2014/07/a...-on-one-house/
    Last edited by DDutton; August 4th, 2014 at 04:29 AM.

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    Is Steven Hawking Jewish? (as smart as he is he must be, right?)

    Stephen Hawking Joins Boycott Against Israel

    JERUSALEM — Stephen W. Hawking, the University of Cambridge physicist and cosmologist, has pulled out of a high-profile conference to be held here in June in order to support an academic boycott of Israel, conference organizers and the university said on Wednesday. The academic and cultural boycott, organized by international activists to protest Israel’s policies toward the Palestinians, is a heated and contentious issue; having Dr. Hawking join it is likely to help the anti-Israel campaigners significantly.


  6. #21

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    Israeli Soldiers-Reserve Soldiers Just Say NO --

    We are more than 50 Israelis who were once soldiers and now declare our refusal to be part of the reserves. We oppose the Israeli Army and the conscription law. Partly, that’s because we revile the current military operation. But most of the signers below are women and would not have fought in combat. For us, the army is flawed for reasons far broader than “Operation Protective Edge,” or even the occupation.

    To us, the current military operation and the way militarization affects Israeli society are inseparable. In Israel, war is not merely politics by other means — it replaces politics. Israel is no longer able to think about a solution to a political conflict except in terms of physical might; no wonder it is prone to never-ending cycles of mortal violence. And when the cannons fire, no criticism may be heard.

    This petition, long in the making, has a special urgency because of the brutal military operation now taking place in our name. And although combat soldiers are generally the ones prosecuting today’s war, their work would not be possible without the many administrative roles in which most of us served. So if there is a reason to oppose combat operations in Gaza, there is also a reason to oppose the Israeli military apparatus as a whole.

    The Israeli Army, a fundamental part of Israelis’ lives, is also the power that rules over the Palestinians living in the territories occupied in 1967. As long as it exists in its current structure, its language and mindset control us: We divide the world into good and evil according to the military’s categories; the military serves as the leading authority on who is valued more and who less in society — who is more responsible for the occupation, who is allowed to vocalize their resistance to it and who isn’t, and how they are allowed to do it. The military plays a central role in every action plan and proposal discussed in the national conversation, which explains the absence of any real argument about non-military solutions to the conflicts Israel has been locked in with its neighbors.

    The Palestinian residents of the West Bank and Gaza Strip are deprived of civil rights and human rights. They live under a different legal system from their Jewish neighbors. This is not exclusively the fault of soldiers who operate in these territories. Those troops are, therefore, not the only ones obligated to refuse. Many of us served in logistical and bureaucratic support roles; there, we found that the entire military helps implement the oppression of the Palestinians.
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  7. #22

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    Rob Schnieder, part Jewish DNA like moi ...

    "To not be outraged at the killing of Gaza children is to risk your very soul."
    "Killing civilians is not defense."
    "The dogs bark but the caravan moves on."
    .....................The Zengrifter Interview (PDF) |
    The Zengrifter / James Grosjean Reputation Debate
    -----------------------------------------
    “Truth, like gold, is obtained not by growth, but by washing away all that is not gold.” — Leo Tolstoy........
    "Is everything a conspiracy? No, just the important stuff." ZG

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    The talk by Eran Efrati was filmed in Denver, Colorado on March 3, 2014 as part of The Soldier and the Refusenik U.S. tour with Maya Wind. Eran talks about his experiences in the IDF and then more broadly discusses Israel, its relationship to the U.S. and the global expansion of militarism.

    Eran Efrati, 28, was born and raised in Jerusalem. After graduating high school he enlisted in the IDF, where he served as a combat soldier and company sergeant in Battalion 50 of the Nachal Division. He spent most of his service in Hebron and throughout the West Bank. In 2009, he was discharged and joined Breaking the Silence, an organization of veteran Israeli soldiers working to raise awareness about the daily reality in the Occupied Territories. He worked as the chief investigator of the organization, collecting testimonies from IDF soldiers about their activities. He also guided political tours and to the West Bank and worked to educate Israeli youth about the reality of being a soldier in an occupying army. His collected testimonies appear in the booklet "Operation Cast Lead" and their most recent release "Our Harsh Logic". Since leaving Breaking the Silence, his investigative reports appeared in The New York Times, The Washington Post and The Guardian. Today he is active with the Israeli groups Anarchists Against the Wall and Boycott from Within.


  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by zengrifter View Post
    Rob Schnieder, part Jewish DNA like moi ...

    "To not be outraged at the killing of Gaza children is to risk your very soul."
    "Killing civilians is not defense."
    Why are you focusing on the possibility that Israel might be culpable in the incidental killing of children, when Palestine is absolutely guilty in the killing of children in deliberate, planned, attacks on civilian populations? One would think that it is more reasonable to spend the majority of one's time condemning the deliberate killing of children. Is this not proof of antj-Semitism?
    Aslan 11/1/90 - 6/15/10 Stormy 1/22/95 -8/23/10
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    but there are millions who hate what they wrongly perceive the Catholic Church to be.”
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  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by DDutton View Post
    Personally, I just want to pick on Israel, ...
    There you have it.
    Aslan 11/1/90 - 6/15/10 Stormy 1/22/95 -8/23/10
    “There are not one hundred people in the United States who hate The Catholic Church,
    but there are millions who hate what they wrongly perceive the Catholic Church to be.”
    Bishop Fulton J. Sheen

    “It takes a very long time to become young.” Pablo Picasso

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by aslan View Post
    Why are you focusing on the possibility that Israel might be culpable in the incidental killing of children, when Palestine is absolutely guilty in the killing of children in deliberate, planned, attacks on civilian populations? One would think that it is more reasonable to spend the majority of one's time condemning the deliberate killing of children. Is this not proof of anti-Semitism?
    Israel is the one killing most civilians and children. Nothing incidental about it.
    You are really stuck on the simplistic argument/presentation of mainstream media.
    No, not antisemitism, rather anti-Israel-colonialism.

  12. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by aslan View Post
    Why are you focusing on the possibility that Israel might be culpable ... Is this not proof of antj-Semitism?
    I don't think so. Would you consider Henry Siegman antisemitic (or a so-called self-hating Jew? ...

    As this column was being written, the United Nations confirmed that a U.N. school in Gaza, where thousands of civilians were seeking shelter, was bombed by the Israeli Defense Forces, killing at least 20 people. The United Nations said it reported the exact coordinates of the shelter to the Israeli military 17 times.


    Henry Siegman, a venerable dean of American Jewish thought and president of the U.S./Middle East Project, sat down for an interview with the "Democracy Now!" news hour. An ordained rabbi, Siegman is the former executive director of the American Jewish Congress and former executive head of the Synagogue Council of America, two of the major, mainstream Jewish organizations in the United States. He says the Israeli occupation of the Palestinian territories must end.

    "There is a Talmudic saying in the 'Ethics of the Fathers,'" Siegman started, "'Don't judge your neighbor until you can imagine yourself in his place.' So, my first question when I deal with any issue related to the Israeli-Palestinian issue: What if we were in their place?"

    He elaborated, "No country and no people would live the way Gazans have been made to live... Our media rarely ever points out that these are people who have a right to live a decent, normal life, too. And they, too, must think, 'What can we do to put an end to this?'"

    Born in Germany in 1930, Siegman and his family were persecuted by the Nazis. "I lived two years under Nazi occupation, most of it running from place to place and in hiding,"
    "The dogs bark but the caravan moves on."
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  13. #28

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    New video from Jewish Voice for Peace ...


    "The dogs bark but the caravan moves on."
    .....................The Zengrifter Interview (PDF) |
    The Zengrifter / James Grosjean Reputation Debate
    -----------------------------------------
    “Truth, like gold, is obtained not by growth, but by washing away all that is not gold.” — Leo Tolstoy........
    "Is everything a conspiracy? No, just the important stuff." ZG

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by DDutton View Post
    Israel is the one killing most civilians and children. Nothing incidental about it.
    You are really stuck on the simplistic argument/presentation of mainstream media.
    No, not antisemitism, rather anti-Israel-colonialism.
    Nothing to do with the media, which is pro Palestinian if you ask me. Israel announces beforehand where it will bomb. It has been using bombs that are even more surgical than the ones that the US uses. The other day they reportedly bombed near a school. What the mainstream media failed to mention was that the school had been evacuated and no one was in the school, which was not hit anyway. Some civilians were killed on the street, but the bombing had been pre-announced so what more can you do? The targeted building was hit. I am not an apologist for Israel, but I'm telling it the way I see it.


    How much of land taken in previous conflicts is needed for security is beyond my expertise. How badly Palestinians are treated within the context of an ongoing conflict is beyond my ability to judge, not being there myself. But I do agree that bad things have been done by the Israelis in the past, none of which justifies the bombings and missile attacks by HAMAS which self-identifies as a terrorist organization. Many bad things have been done by the Palestinians, as well, and would have been more atrocious if they had had the fire power of Israel. They are anti-Jew and anyone who supports them is anti-Jew. There is no question about that. If roles were reversed and it was Israel who was occupying Gaza and Palestine who had the superior firepower and occupied what is now Israel, there is no doubt that Israel would be massacred, children and all. But that's okay, because they're Jew children, and because you don't like Jew colonists, who are so by virtue of international law, but that doesn't matter. I'm not pro Zionist, but I am not anti Zionist either. I am pro children of either state. Tell me how Israel defends itself without children being killed. Tell me. I am waiting. And I am pro Israel in so far as they are our ally. It would be strange to be allies with HAMAS who would just as soon see Americans die as Israelis, since we are counted as the big Satan and Israel only the little Satan. I will not bow down to Sharia law and the extremist Muslims that are running amok in the middle east, HAMAS, Hezbollah, the Brotherhood, and of late ISIS and their killing of Jews, Christians and anyone who stands in their imperialist way or does not bow down to their religion of forced submission.
    Aslan 11/1/90 - 6/15/10 Stormy 1/22/95 -8/23/10
    “There are not one hundred people in the United States who hate The Catholic Church,
    but there are millions who hate what they wrongly perceive the Catholic Church to be.”
    Bishop Fulton J. Sheen

    “It takes a very long time to become young.” Pablo Picasso

  15. #30

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    Jewish author and historian Richard Forer dismantles the MYTHS of the Israeli-Zio narrative on Palestine AND Hamas.
    Monsignor Aslan, please do give this one an honest listen, Forer presents a powerful well-researched soul-searching examination ...

    Part-1 of 3
    "The dogs bark but the caravan moves on."
    .....................The Zengrifter Interview (PDF) |
    The Zengrifter / James Grosjean Reputation Debate
    -----------------------------------------
    “Truth, like gold, is obtained not by growth, but by washing away all that is not gold.” — Leo Tolstoy........
    "Is everything a conspiracy? No, just the important stuff." ZG

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