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Thread: Enoch & the Watchers: The Real Story of Angels & Demons

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    Red face Enoch & the Watchers: The Real Story of Angels & Demons

    Enoch & the Watchers: The Real Story of Angels & Demons


    February 15, 2014


    By MICHAEL HOWARD — Every visible thing in the world is put under the charge of an angel. – St Augustine In 2002 the British newspaper The Sunday Telegraph reported that the Vatican had banned the veneration of those angels who do not appear in the authorised texts of the Bible. This was an attempt to counter the influence of unnamed New Age groups who were allegedly recruiting new members within the Roman Catholic Church. In future, prayers were only to be directed to the three …


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    http://www.newdawnmagazine.com/artic...-angels-demons

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    One Hell of a read!

    Azazel – Lucifer – Lumiel
    Azazel, the leader of the Watchers, as mentioned before, was identified with Lucifer or Lumiel. In the Quran it is said that Lucifer-Lumiel (Iblis) rebelled against Allah because he was told to bow down and worship the clay-born “man of earth” Adam and refused. He was forced to fight a battle in Heaven with the Archangel Mikael or Michael and his Army of the Lord. As a result Lumiel and his rebel angels were cast out of Heaven and fell down to Earth. Here Lumiel became the “Lord of the World” and in Christian mythology he was falsely identified with the bogeyman Satan. However, esoterically in the Luciferian tradition, Lumiel or Lumial is not an evil satanic figure luring humankind into temptation and acts of evil as the Church represents him. He is “the angel of God [who] rebelled against the static, established cosmic order and set in motion the forces of change and evolution
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    Quote Originally Posted by Solve et Coagula View Post
    Enoch & the Watchers: The Real Story of Angels & Demons


    February 15, 2014


    By MICHAEL HOWARD — Every visible thing in the world is put under the charge of an angel. – St Augustine In 2002 the British newspaper The Sunday Telegraph reported that the Vatican had banned the veneration of those angels who do not appear in the authorised texts of the Bible. This was an attempt to counter the influence of unnamed New Age groups who were allegedly recruiting new members within the Roman Catholic Church. In future, prayers were only to be directed to the three …


    [Read more...]


    http://www.newdawnmagazine.com/artic...-angels-demons
    Because the Book of Enoch is not considered an inspired and therefore reliable book, I won't begin to speculate on what this or that aspect of its narrative might be true or meaningful. Perhaps, if I were a Bible scholar steeped in the study of those ancient times, I might try to reconcile Enoch with the accepted Biblical texts, but since I am not, I leave it to your deliberation if you choose. I have no opinion for or against the Book of Enoch, only to say that it is not a part of the Bible.
    Aslan 11/1/90 - 6/15/10 Stormy 1/22/95 -8/23/10
    “There are not one hundred people in the United States who hate The Catholic Church,
    but there are millions who hate what they wrongly perceive the Catholic Church to be.”
    Bishop Fulton J. Sheen

    “It takes a very long time to become young.” Pablo Picasso

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    Quote Originally Posted by aslan View Post
    Because the Book of Enoch is not considered an inspired and therefore reliable book...
    ... or not "helpful" to the early church creators. Like when they removed the reincarnation because "not helpful?"
    Book of Enoch was written by Noah's grandfather, I think?
    "The dogs bark but the caravan moves on."
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    The Zengrifter / James Grosjean Reputation Debate
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    “Truth, like gold, is obtained not by growth, but by washing away all that is not gold.” — Leo Tolstoy........
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    Quote Originally Posted by zengrifter View Post
    ... or not "helpful" to the early church creators. Like when they removed the reincarnation because "not helpful?"
    Book of Enoch was written by Noah's grandfather, I think?
    Enoch is referred to as a historical person and prophet, and quoted, in Jude 1:14–15

    Sounds like an inspired one to me? Jude thought so. Who were the early church creators to say otherwise?

    The Book of Enoch was considered as Scripture in the Epistle of Barnabas (16:4)and by many of the early Church Fathers, such as Athenagoras, Clement of Alexandria, Irenaeus and Tertullian,who wrote c. 200 that the Book of Enoch had been rejected by the Jews because it contained prophecies pertaining to Christ. However, later Fathers denied the canonicity of the book, and some even considered the letter of Jude uncanonical because it refers to an "apocryphal" work. By the 4th century, the Book of Enoch was mostly excluded from Christian canons, and it is now regarded as scripture by only the Ethiopian Orthodox Church and the Eritrean Orthodox Church.
    "The dogs bark but the caravan moves on."
    .....................The Zengrifter Interview (PDF) |
    The Zengrifter / James Grosjean Reputation Debate
    -----------------------------------------
    “Truth, like gold, is obtained not by growth, but by washing away all that is not gold.” — Leo Tolstoy........
    "Is everything a conspiracy? No, just the important stuff." ZG

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    Quote Originally Posted by zengrifter View Post
    ... or not "helpful" to the early church creators. Like when they removed the reincarnation because "not helpful?"
    Book of Enoch was written by Noah's grandfather, I think?
    I didn't see the reference to reincarnation in my cursory scan, but it was surely "one" of the reasons this book didn't pass muster. The Catholic Faith is based on the teachings of Jesus Christ, not on every ancient text that comes along. The Book of Enoch was left out of the Torah and subsequently not recognized by the Church, as well. I'm sure it has some value to scholars, but it is not considered a reliable source for the teaching of faith and morals by the Church.
    Aslan 11/1/90 - 6/15/10 Stormy 1/22/95 -8/23/10
    “There are not one hundred people in the United States who hate The Catholic Church,
    but there are millions who hate what they wrongly perceive the Catholic Church to be.”
    Bishop Fulton J. Sheen

    “It takes a very long time to become young.” Pablo Picasso

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    Quote Originally Posted by aslan View Post
    I didn't see the reference to reincarnation in my cursory scan, but it was surely "one" of the reasons this book didn't pass muster.
    No, not in Enoch. But whatever direct references existed were removed by the Council of Nicaea in the 5th century AD.
    You know, because it wasn't "helpful."
    "The dogs bark but the caravan moves on."
    .....................The Zengrifter Interview (PDF) |
    The Zengrifter / James Grosjean Reputation Debate
    -----------------------------------------
    “Truth, like gold, is obtained not by growth, but by washing away all that is not gold.” — Leo Tolstoy........
    "Is everything a conspiracy? No, just the important stuff." ZG

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    Quote Originally Posted by zengrifter View Post
    No, not in Enoch. But whatever direct references existed were removed by the Council of Nicaea in the 5th century AD.
    You know, because it wasn't "helpful."
    A prominent theologian named Origen wrote around 250 AD about the pre-existence of the soul. He taught that the soul’s very source was God and that the soul was traveling back to oneness with God via the lessons learned in multiple lives. He taught that Christ came to show us what we can become. For centuries this was the mainstream view of Christianity but 300 years later it became a huge issue and the belief was made illegal because Emperor Constantine believed it was dangerous to the Empire to believe in reincarnation.
    "The dogs bark but the caravan moves on."
    .....................The Zengrifter Interview (PDF) |
    The Zengrifter / James Grosjean Reputation Debate
    -----------------------------------------
    “Truth, like gold, is obtained not by growth, but by washing away all that is not gold.” — Leo Tolstoy........
    "Is everything a conspiracy? No, just the important stuff." ZG

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    Quote Originally Posted by zengrifter View Post
    No, not in Enoch. But whatever direct references existed were removed by the Council of Nicaea in the 5th century AD.
    You know, because it wasn't "helpful."
    Nicaea was 325AD, the fourth century. It was convened by Emperor Constantine, for 318 "Bishops" who he bribed to try to get the large loose collection of Hebrew scratchings organized into one book called the Bible. The bishops voted on which scriptures were to be included and which were not. The finished product was to be known as The Word of God.

    But in reality, it turned out to be the word of god by vote.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Katz View Post
    Nicaea was 325AD, the fourth century. It was convened by Emperor Constantine, for 318 "Bishops" who he bribed to try to get the large loose collection of Hebrew scratchings organized into one book called the Bible. The bishops voted on which scriptures were to be included and which were not. The finished product was to be known as The Word of God.

    But in reality, it turned out to be the word of god by vote.
    Apparently it was the 2nd Council of 550AD, not first, I think?
    "The dogs bark but the caravan moves on."
    .....................The Zengrifter Interview (PDF) |
    The Zengrifter / James Grosjean Reputation Debate
    -----------------------------------------
    “Truth, like gold, is obtained not by growth, but by washing away all that is not gold.” — Leo Tolstoy........
    "Is everything a conspiracy? No, just the important stuff." ZG

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    Quote Originally Posted by aslan View Post
    Because the Book of Enoch is not considered an inspired and therefore reliable book...
    But the book of Ruth was? An idiotic short story of a girl creeping into bed with her cousin, Boaz? Inspired stuff there from Yahweh the old Hebrew god.

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    For posterity, Catholic.com disagrees -

    Historical facts provide no basis for this claim. In fact, there was no Council of Nicaea in A.D. 553. Further, the two ecumenical councils of Nicaea (A.D. 325 and A.D. 787) took place in the city of Nicaea (hence their names)—and neither dealt with reincarnation. What did take place in A.D. 553 was the Second Ecumenical Council of Constantinople. But records from this Council show that it, too, did not address the subject of reincarnation. None of the early councils did.
    The closest the Second Council of Constantinople came to addressing reincarnation was, in one sentence, to condemn Origen, an early Church writer who believed souls exist in heaven before coming to earth to be born. New Agers confuse this belief in the preexistence of the soul with reincarnation and claim that Origen was a reincarnationist. Actually, he was one of the most prolific early writers against reincarnation!
    "The dogs bark but the caravan moves on."
    .....................The Zengrifter Interview (PDF) |
    The Zengrifter / James Grosjean Reputation Debate
    -----------------------------------------
    “Truth, like gold, is obtained not by growth, but by washing away all that is not gold.” — Leo Tolstoy........
    "Is everything a conspiracy? No, just the important stuff." ZG

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    We don't need no stinkin Origen... Reincarnation was a given among many cultures long before the doom and Dark Ages heralded by the unfortunate forced widespread acceptance of the Myth of Christianity. Even the Hindu story has just as much credibility as the Jesus fable... not much in either case.

  14. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by Katz View Post
    Even the Hindu story has just as much credibility as the Jesus fable... not much in either case.
    Sacrilege! Blasphemy! What would Abraham say?
    "The dogs bark but the caravan moves on."
    .....................The Zengrifter Interview (PDF) |
    The Zengrifter / James Grosjean Reputation Debate
    -----------------------------------------
    “Truth, like gold, is obtained not by growth, but by washing away all that is not gold.” — Leo Tolstoy........
    "Is everything a conspiracy? No, just the important stuff." ZG

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    Quote Originally Posted by Katz View Post
    We don't need no stinkin Origen...
    Lit candle in dark room does no good, if one keeps eyes closed. FOR 7:23*

    *(Fortune cookie, China Star restaurant, New York City, NY)
    Aslan 11/1/90 - 6/15/10 Stormy 1/22/95 -8/23/10
    “There are not one hundred people in the United States who hate The Catholic Church,
    but there are millions who hate what they wrongly perceive the Catholic Church to be.”
    Bishop Fulton J. Sheen

    “It takes a very long time to become young.” Pablo Picasso

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