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Thread: TARZAN's Count

  1. #1
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    Default TARZAN's Count

    An interesting post by Tarzan on the Evil mans site. Not complicated if your brain can compartmentalize.
    I found it interesting. But still the EV is to small for my tastes.


    Mac
    So look buddy it's nothing personal, but either your the unluckiest person in the world or your stealing from me. Either way............ I WANT NO PART OF YOU!!!!!! NEVER!!!!

  2. #2

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    Quote Originally Posted by Machinist View Post
    An interesting post by Tarzan on the Evil mans site. Not complicated if your brain can compartmentalize.
    I found it interesting. But still the EV is to small for my tastes.
    A variation of the multi-parameter approach to counting that first appeared in the 70s, intended for 1-2D, I believe.
    "The dogs bark but the caravan moves on."
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  3. #3

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    Some overview provided by the late Peter Griffin, page 56 --

    http://www.scribd.com/doc/117569526/...UNTING-SYSTEMS
    "The dogs bark but the caravan moves on."
    .....................The Zengrifter Interview (PDF) |
    The Zengrifter / James Grosjean Reputation Debate
    -----------------------------------------
    “Truth, like gold, is obtained not by growth, but by washing away all that is not gold.” — Leo Tolstoy........
    "Is everything a conspiracy? No, just the important stuff." ZG

  4. #4
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    I think what we're talking about here is the DHME Expert system devised by D H Mitchell which is similar to Tarzan's count. I have been meaning to research the Library of Congress to see if his system ever reached their catalog of all books published in the USA. There is also the Gordon count, which may be similar as well. But it's the DHME Expert system that Tarzan told me most resembled his own.
    Aslan 11/1/90 - 6/15/10 Stormy 1/22/95 -8/23/10
    “There are not one hundred people in the United States who hate The Catholic Church,
    but there are millions who hate what they wrongly perceive the Catholic Church to be.”
    Bishop Fulton J. Sheen

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  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by aslan View Post
    I think what we're talking about here is the DHME Expert system devised by D H Mitchell which is similar to Tarzan's count. I have been meaning to research the Library of Congress to see if his system ever reached their catalog of all books published in the USA. There is also the Gordon count, which may be similar as well. But it's the DHME Expert system that Tarzan told me most resembled his own.
    DHME, Gordon, Humble all came out with very similar bi-valuate systems, AFTER Griffin first suggested and Walter Tyminski subsequently reported.
    "The dogs bark but the caravan moves on."
    .....................The Zengrifter Interview (PDF) |
    The Zengrifter / James Grosjean Reputation Debate
    -----------------------------------------
    “Truth, like gold, is obtained not by growth, but by washing away all that is not gold.” — Leo Tolstoy........
    "Is everything a conspiracy? No, just the important stuff." ZG

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by zengrifter View Post
    DHME, Gordon, Humble all came out with very similar bi-valuate systems, AFTER Griffin first suggested and Walter Tyminski subsequently reported.
    True. I hope you didn't think I was disagreeing with you. After all, you were there and readers would be well advised to listen to you. If anyone wants to know about the beginnings and evolution of Card Counting, they need go no further than our own illustrious Zengrifter! He has surely forgotten more about Blackjack than I have ever known.
    Aslan 11/1/90 - 6/15/10 Stormy 1/22/95 -8/23/10
    “There are not one hundred people in the United States who hate The Catholic Church,
    but there are millions who hate what they wrongly perceive the Catholic Church to be.”
    Bishop Fulton J. Sheen

    “It takes a very long time to become young.” Pablo Picasso

  7. #7
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    Card counting doesn't work? That's because you don't have enough side counts. Based on an expert at another site, if you side count enough, you reach your win goal very fast the house even thinks you're a clueless gambler. The problem is that expert seems to have the IQ of Einstein and knows EVERYTHING except running a private business!

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by fat_bumblebee View Post
    Card counting doesn't work? That's because you don't have enough side counts. Based on an expert at another site, if you side count enough, you reach your win goal very fast the house even thinks you're a clueless gambler. The problem is that expert seems to have the IQ of Einstein and knows EVERYTHING except running a private business!
    ONLY perhaps if the side-counts are used accurately within a 'multi-parameter / bi-valuate approximation' scheme that is beyond the ability of most counters and has reduced value for 6D games. In general the myth of super-side-countimng was dismissed decades ago. Some few practioners are proud of their
    ability to do this, Tthree comes to mind, and so are biased in their overall assessment - complicated by lack of accurate high-speed sim evaluations.

    See: Can Side Counting Make You a Super Card Counter?
    Last edited by zengrifter; September 6th, 2014 at 09:12 PM. Reason: typo
    "The dogs bark but the caravan moves on."
    .....................The Zengrifter Interview (PDF) |
    The Zengrifter / James Grosjean Reputation Debate
    -----------------------------------------
    “Truth, like gold, is obtained not by growth, but by washing away all that is not gold.” — Leo Tolstoy........
    "Is everything a conspiracy? No, just the important stuff." ZG

  9. #9
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    Default Tuning my Glockenspiel




    I am in the process of putting the whole system into an easy enough to understand format, the official "how to" manual of this.




    Three counts for the Elven-Kings under the sky,
    Seven for the Dwarf-Lords in their halls of stone,
    Nine for mortal men doomed to die,
    One for the Dark Lord on his dark throne
    In the land of Casinos where the shadow lie.
    One count to rule them all, one count to find them,
    One count to bring them all and in the cash flow bind them,
    In the land of Casinos where the shadows lie.


    There's an important point that Arnold Snyder made in his article about utilization of the information. The additional information from side counts is useless unless it is properly utilized in your calculations of your betting and playing strategies. Something I sought out long ago, right from the beginning was to achieve maximum utilization of information. Where other counts have about 20 points of reference between -10 to +10 I have 330 unique points of reference over that same span. These specific "fingerprints" of deck composition match up against a memorized chart(s) for each hand, providing maximum utilization of the information derived from the DHME style groupings. I seriously question how many people may ever learn it though.

    There is in fact a certain sense of pride in having a playing efficiency that is as close to a computer using perfect play as it gets. I attribute my methods and tactics to my overall success over the years but there may be those that may claim that I am nothing more than a lucky slob that happens to be sitting on the happier side of the bell curve, a valid topic so who knows...
    Last edited by zengrifter; September 4th, 2014 at 04:01 PM. Reason: embed video

  10. #10
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    Default

    well, the video was sure as hell impressive.
    Last edited by zengrifter; September 4th, 2014 at 04:01 PM.
    best regards,
    mr fr0g MMOA honorary predator
    STRENGTH - HONOR - HEART
    that's my take on it your mileage may vary.
    for senior citizen fuzzy count click link:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DrTiP4ZIUfI

  11. #11
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    Default

    So how much extra advantage do you gain knowing vs not knowing all these? I know the exact composition at the start of the shoe, but so what?

  12. #12
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by sagefr0g View Post
    well, the video was sure as hell impressive.
    Yeah, whoever was doing that seems to know his stuff. But hanging out here on the ZZ makes us a little er, sceptical of extraordinary claims. If Tarzan says those are his hands and his skillz, that would go a long way to fend off any cynics. Then we might find out how this skill can be useful...

  13. #13
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    Default 3

    That is indeed a most amazing "count system", even DS was left rather speechless.

    CP
    "Midwest Masters Of Advantage", "Strength and Honor."

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by creeping panther View Post
    That is indeed a most amazing "count system", even DS was left rather speechless.

    CP
    My observation is a real expert does not talk without data to back him up. The half-fulls keep talking without even knowing the most basic question for any count: how good is it? Why would anyone spend so much effort to master a complex count and then ask around "how good is my count"? DS may not know the exact gain of the fancy "non-linear" (random?) count, but he knows the limit derived from counting every rank, not groups of 4 cards!

  15. #15
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    Default

    Here are some more statements from the expert today and what was not mentioned (because he cannot):

    "DMHE material uses linear approach with side counts. Tarzan uses a non-linear approach to using the same data." Why is nonlinear automatically better?

    "It is much more accurate in general." How much more accurate?

    "The BC, PE and IC metrics are for linear approaches. Only the IC metric shows the true max at 1.0. Tarzan's BC is probably very close to .98 or maybe higher." Again, how much higher? 200%?

    "His PE is probably in the .90's." All you can say is "probably"?

    "The max PE for a linear count with no side counts is .70 but with side counts the PE can get much higher."
    How much higher? 300%?

    "Using ratios for 3 or more card groups instead of a linear aproach raises the PE ceiling even more."
    How much more? To heaven?

    "Think of the difference between knowing there are 5 more low cards played than high cards, and knowing there are also this many surplus or deficit of these middle ranks and there are 5 surplus aces with an equal number of T's to lows but not many middle cards and there are a lot more 8,9 than 6,7"
    You group 6-9 together. How can you know there are more 8,9 than 6,7?
    Last edited by fat_bumblebee; September 8th, 2014 at 09:34 PM.

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