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Thread: Baccarat card counting: Dragon Bonus

  1. #1

    Default Baccarat card counting: Dragon Bonus

    The Dragon Bonus baccarat side bet advantage happened to show up while JSTAT was showing us how he practices baccarat/blackjack from a 8 deck shoe. Sorry about worst quality video (in video clarity) on YouTube, but what is said is important to card counting!

    Last edited by JSTAT; September 2nd, 2013 at 04:57 PM.
    Casino reporter, enjoys blackjack/baccarat card counting, and Bay Area poker pro. Moviemakerjjcasino@Casino_Examiner on Twitter

  2. #2

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    Yes it can be "beat" ...

    Unfortunately, with optimal counting, the bet is MAYBE worth 7 +EV bets per shoe ...
    ... and yielding MAYBE $10/hr making $100 Dragon bets when the sidebet is +EV.*



    *Source: http://apheat.net/2012/08/12/card-co...arat-side-bet/
    Last edited by zengrifter; September 26th, 2016 at 07:32 AM.
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  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by zengrifter View Post
    Yes it can be "beat" ...

    Unfortunately, with optimal counting, the bet is MAYBE worth 7 +EV bets per shoe ...
    ... and yielding MAYBE $10/hr making $100 Dragon bets when the sidebet is +EV.*



    *Source: http://apheat.net/2012/08/12/card-co...arat-side-bet/
    That looks about on par with conventional counting, and less heat. No?

  4. #4

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    Its the worst one of the beatable/countable Bac sidebets.

    Source: jacobsen / APHeat.net

    Last edited by zengrifter; September 26th, 2016 at 07:33 AM.
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  5. #5

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    It is also mentioned in the video how to beat the Panda 8 and Dragon 7 side bets at EZ Baccarat with the JSTAT Count. Blackjack card counting utilizing the side counting of 8's and 9's is also briefly explained. Only a few advantage opportunities exist for each shoe It is also widely known that the Lucky Ladies side bet can be beaten with this multi-purpose count. We can move from a baccarat table to a blackjack table and obtain an advantage with one count.
    Last edited by JSTAT; August 31st, 2013 at 12:20 PM.
    Casino reporter, enjoys blackjack/baccarat card counting, and Bay Area poker pro. Moviemakerjjcasino@Casino_Examiner on Twitter

  6. #6

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    I have never heard of card counting in Baccarat. What counting strategy are you using and has counting in baccarat been in use for a length of time among players?

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blitzkrieg View Post
    I have never heard of card counting in Baccarat. What counting strategy are you using and has counting in baccarat been in use for a length of time among players?
    He's using a ten-count/point-count: 2-9 +1 and 10 -2, with a side-count Aces, I think.
    Since the early days of Thorp there have ALWAYS been AP counts for baccarrat, but prior to the recent resurgence of novelty side-bets counting has been of negligible value.
    "The dogs bark but the caravan moves on."
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    The Zengrifter / James Grosjean Reputation Debate
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    “Truth, like gold, is obtained not by growth, but by washing away all that is not gold.” — Leo Tolstoy........
    "Is everything a conspiracy? No, just the important stuff." ZG

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by zengrifter View Post
    He's using a ten-count/point-count: 2-9 +1 and 10 -2, with a side-count Aces, I think.
    Since the early days of Thorp there have ALWAYS been AP counts for baccarrat, but prior to the recent resurgence of novelty side-bets counting has been of negligible value.
    Does the ten-count/point-count actually work in baccarat? Even hearing about counting in baccarat is new to me, I've never played the game.

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blitzkrieg View Post
    Does the ten-count/point-count actually work in baccarat?
    No, just for that one side bet (maybe).
    Baccarat side bets in general require different specialty counts.
    "The dogs bark but the caravan moves on."
    .....................The Zengrifter Interview (PDF) |
    The Zengrifter / James Grosjean Reputation Debate
    -----------------------------------------
    “Truth, like gold, is obtained not by growth, but by washing away all that is not gold.” — Leo Tolstoy........
    "Is everything a conspiracy? No, just the important stuff." ZG

  10. #10

    Default How to Win at EZ Baccarat Dragon 7 Side Bet

    I explain on Periscope how to win at the EZ Baccarat (and the regular mini/midi baccarat Player bet) Dragon 7 side bet which pays 40-1 counting cards using the JSTAT Count with the side counting of 8's/9's. The JSTAT Count strategy counts the 2-9's as +1 and the 10's and picture cards as -2 (the aces are not counted). An 8 or 9 comes out very 6.5 cards with eight of them in each deck. More 8/9's gone than normal with minus counts give us the card counting edge at Player bets at baccarat and the EZ Baccarat Dragon 7 side bet.

    Casino reporter, enjoys blackjack/baccarat card counting, and Bay Area poker pro. Moviemakerjjcasino@Casino_Examiner on Twitter

  11. #11

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    Eliot Jacobson did a a card counting analysis of the EZ Baccarat Dragon 7 side bet that was published on the Wizard of Odds site in 2011 https://wizardofodds.com/games/baccarat/dragon-bet/. Using a linear count simulation, Jacobson concluded a shoe depleted of more eights and/or nines than normal provided an advantage for the Dragon 7 side bet which pays 40-1. I upped the ante by including the JSTAT Count (2-9=+1 and 10-K=-2) with a side counting of 8/9's and have been very successful playing in casinos. It only makes sense that a winning three card banker 7 cannot happen with a ten card (on plus JSTAT Counts) along with the 8/9's as a third card in this non-linear count.

    As an additional bonus, I discovered the JSTAT Count with the side counting (and the lack of) of 8/9's remaining in the shoe with minus counts works very well with Player Bets in conventional baccarat.

    Side counting the 8/9's are just as effective in blackjack as it is in the EZ Baccarat Dragon 7 side bet or conventional baccarat. At blackjack, on plus JSTAT Counts with more 8/9's remaining than normal, our double downs will approve on 10/11 and the dealer will bust more often than average. In my opinion, the side counting of 8/9's with the JSTAT Count enhances card counting at blackjack and baccarat.

    Casino reporter, enjoys blackjack/baccarat card counting, and Bay Area poker pro. Moviemakerjjcasino@Casino_Examiner on Twitter

  12. #12
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    A big fish jumps back into the pond...

  13. #13

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    "The dogs bark but the caravan moves on."
    .....................The Zengrifter Interview (PDF) |
    The Zengrifter / James Grosjean Reputation Debate
    -----------------------------------------
    “Truth, like gold, is obtained not by growth, but by washing away all that is not gold.” — Leo Tolstoy........
    "Is everything a conspiracy? No, just the important stuff." ZG

  14. #14
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    Jacobson is an idiot. Who else would take JSTAT seriously enough to bother debunking him?

  15. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by Boz View Post
    Jacobson is an idiot. Who else would take JSTAT seriously ...?
    Casinos.
    "The dogs bark but the caravan moves on."
    .....................The Zengrifter Interview (PDF) |
    The Zengrifter / James Grosjean Reputation Debate
    -----------------------------------------
    “Truth, like gold, is obtained not by growth, but by washing away all that is not gold.” — Leo Tolstoy........
    "Is everything a conspiracy? No, just the important stuff." ZG

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