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Thread: Edge Sorting at Casino Games

  1. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by DDutton View Post
    That's what Ivey did, he used his brains without subterfuge right out in the open. What if I used natural psychic intuition of a very rare magnitude?Hey remember Ray Milland in Man With The Xray Eyes? He beat the casinos.
    Great movie, a Roger Corman classic.

    At the end of the movie, Xavier drives out to a desert and wanders into a religious tent revival. He tells the evangelist that he is beginning to see things at the edges of the universe, including an "eye that sees us all" in the center of the universe. The pastor replies that what he sees is "sin and the devil," and declares the biblical quote of "If thine eye offends thee... pluck it out!", and Xavier chooses to blind himself rather than see anything more.
    Alternate ending
    There have long been rumors about an alternate ending for the movie, in which Dr. Xavier removes his eyes, and afterwards screams "I can still see!"

    ........
    Last edited by zengrifter; April 15th, 2014 at 12:38 AM.
    "The dogs bark but the caravan moves on."
    .....................The Zengrifter Interview (PDF) |
    The Zengrifter / James Grosjean Reputation Debate
    -----------------------------------------
    “Truth, like gold, is obtained not by growth, but by washing away all that is not gold.” — Leo Tolstoy........
    "Is everything a conspiracy? No, just the important stuff." ZG

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by zengrifter View Post
    Great movie, a Roger Corman classic.

    At the end of the movie, Xavier drives out to a desert and wanders into a religious tent revival. He tells the evangelist that he is beginning to see things at the edges of the universe, including an "eye that sees us all" in the center of the universe. The pastor replies that what he sees is "sin and the devil," and declares the biblical quote of "If thine eye offends thee... pluck it out!", and Xavier chooses to blind himself rather than see anything more.
    Alternate ending
    There have long been rumors about an alternate ending for the movie, in which Dr. Xavier removes his eyes, and afterwards screams "I can still see!"

    ......
    I wonder what the casino would say when you hit a twenty and catch an ace against a dealer twenty?
    Aslan 11/1/90 - 6/15/10 Stormy 1/22/95 -8/23/10
    “There are not one hundred people in the United States who hate The Catholic Church,
    but there are millions who hate what they wrongly perceive the Catholic Church to be.”
    Bishop Fulton J. Sheen

    “It takes a very long time to become young.” Pablo Picasso

  3. #18

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    Eliot Jacobson talks about Phil Ivey and the edge sorting case at Borgata, starts at the 28:20 mark. ...

    Last edited by zengrifter; April 17th, 2014 at 02:34 PM.
    "The dogs bark but the caravan moves on."
    .....................The Zengrifter Interview (PDF) |
    The Zengrifter / James Grosjean Reputation Debate
    -----------------------------------------
    “Truth, like gold, is obtained not by growth, but by washing away all that is not gold.” — Leo Tolstoy........
    "Is everything a conspiracy? No, just the important stuff." ZG

  4. #19

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    Eliot has created a video to demonstrate various card manufacturers' edge-sortable cards ...

    <embed type="application/x-shockwave-flash" src="http://s0.videopress.com/player.swf?v=1.03" width="400" height="300" wmode="direct" seamlesstabbing="true" allowfullscreen="true" allowscriptaccess="always" overstretch="true" flashvars="guid=8pQsfr3r&amp;isDynamicSeeking=true "></embed>
    "The dogs bark but the caravan moves on."
    .....................The Zengrifter Interview (PDF) |
    The Zengrifter / James Grosjean Reputation Debate
    -----------------------------------------
    “Truth, like gold, is obtained not by growth, but by washing away all that is not gold.” — Leo Tolstoy........
    "Is everything a conspiracy? No, just the important stuff." ZG

  5. #20
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    Jacobson had his 15 minutes, errr 15 seconds of fame recently on CBS news --

    "I am very proud of the work I have done on edge sorting on this site.
    My research on the topic was quoted in dozens of articles on Phil Ivey
    appearing in media outlets around the world on the story. But, this sudden
    and brief fame also has a dark implication. It means that there is far too little
    information out there. It means that but for my work, those in search of i
    nformation would have found nothing."

    <embed type="application/x-shockwave-flash" src="http://s0.videopress.com/player.swf?v=1.03" width="400" height="300" wmode="direct" seamlesstabbing="true" allowfullscreen="true" allowscriptaccess="always" overstretch="true" flashvars="guid=4nZvV3cJ&isDynamicSeeking=true">

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by DDutton View Post
    Jacobson had his 15 minutes, errr 15 seconds of fame recently on CBS news --

    "I am very proud of the work I have done on edge sorting on this site.
    My research on the topic was quoted in dozens of articles on Phil Ivey
    appearing in media outlets around the world on the story. But, this sudden
    and brief fame also has a dark implication. It means that there is far too little
    information out there. It means that but for my work, those in search of i
    nformation would have found nothing."

    <embed type="application/x-shockwave-flash" src="http://s0.videopress.com/player.swf?v=1.03" width="400" height="300" wmode="direct" seamlesstabbing="true" allowfullscreen="true" allowscriptaccess="always" overstretch="true" flashvars="guid=4nZvV3cJ&isDynamicSeeking=true">
    I looked it up. Gaining an edge is only called cheating when the player gets it. It's called business when the casino gets it. Get it? Good.

    There is an exception to the rule. If the player gets it, but loses anyway, it's considered fair play. A simple rule of thumb is, if you win it's cheating, and if the casino wins it's perfectly legal. The determination is based entirely on who wins. It come from the old casino adage, "Heads I win, tails you lose!" Any questions?

    Example:

    If you say, use edge sorting, card counting, hole carding, ace tracking, or any of a variety of what the casino calls cheating, irrespective of the law, you only have to fear if you win. If you lose, the casino will not require you to pay any difference in your desired lose rate. Say, if you are betting $1,000 a hand at blackjack in which the house has calculated an edge of 1%. Let's say you play 10 hands and lose $50. Even though the casino expects to win $100 in 10 hands, it will not require that you repay the other $50 that you did not lose, even though you employed one of those player edge enhancing subterfuges, although the casino may bar you from future play.

    Remember, gambling at a casino is like breaking into a prison, and if you are successful, then seeing if you can get out again. Phil won, but they still have not released his $9,7 million in winnings. Also, if taken to court and convicted, he could face real prison time.

    It's like Zengrifter's bids for FCC licenses back in the day, in which some people won and some people lost. If anyone loses, then you are prima facie a criminal, notwithstanding that others made millions.

    Are you ready to take on the gaming industry? Are ya, punk, now are ya? Name:  eastwood2.jpg
Views: 136
Size:  25.9 KB
    Aslan 11/1/90 - 6/15/10 Stormy 1/22/95 -8/23/10
    “There are not one hundred people in the United States who hate The Catholic Church,
    but there are millions who hate what they wrongly perceive the Catholic Church to be.”
    Bishop Fulton J. Sheen

    “It takes a very long time to become young.” Pablo Picasso

  7. #22

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    Ivey should sue for defamation and win another $10M.
    "The dogs bark but the caravan moves on."
    .....................The Zengrifter Interview (PDF) |
    The Zengrifter / James Grosjean Reputation Debate
    -----------------------------------------
    “Truth, like gold, is obtained not by growth, but by washing away all that is not gold.” — Leo Tolstoy........
    "Is everything a conspiracy? No, just the important stuff." ZG

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by zengrifter View Post
    Ivey should sue for defamation and win another $10M.
    You should represent him for a modest one-third of the award.
    Aslan 11/1/90 - 6/15/10 Stormy 1/22/95 -8/23/10
    “There are not one hundred people in the United States who hate The Catholic Church,
    but there are millions who hate what they wrongly perceive the Catholic Church to be.”
    Bishop Fulton J. Sheen

    “It takes a very long time to become young.” Pablo Picasso

  9. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by aslan View Post
    You should represent him for a modest one-third of the award.
    I'm sure some smart counsel has that covered.
    "The dogs bark but the caravan moves on."
    .....................The Zengrifter Interview (PDF) |
    The Zengrifter / James Grosjean Reputation Debate
    -----------------------------------------
    “Truth, like gold, is obtained not by growth, but by washing away all that is not gold.” — Leo Tolstoy........
    "Is everything a conspiracy? No, just the important stuff." ZG

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by zengrifter View Post
    I'm sure some smart counsel has that covered.
    But none so well informed as thou.
    Aslan 11/1/90 - 6/15/10 Stormy 1/22/95 -8/23/10
    “There are not one hundred people in the United States who hate The Catholic Church,
    but there are millions who hate what they wrongly perceive the Catholic Church to be.”
    Bishop Fulton J. Sheen

    “It takes a very long time to become young.” Pablo Picasso

  11. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by aslan View Post
    But none so well informed as thou.
    I would have little to offer, unlike when Stalker was running around like the proverbial headless chicken scrambling on behalf of Grosjean.
    "The dogs bark but the caravan moves on."
    .....................The Zengrifter Interview (PDF) |
    The Zengrifter / James Grosjean Reputation Debate
    -----------------------------------------
    “Truth, like gold, is obtained not by growth, but by washing away all that is not gold.” — Leo Tolstoy........
    "Is everything a conspiracy? No, just the important stuff." ZG

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by zengrifter View Post
    I would have little to offer, unlike when Stalker was running around like the proverbial headless chicken scrambling on behalf of Grosjean.
    Your expertise is often underrated IMHO.
    Aslan 11/1/90 - 6/15/10 Stormy 1/22/95 -8/23/10
    “There are not one hundred people in the United States who hate The Catholic Church,
    but there are millions who hate what they wrongly perceive the Catholic Church to be.”
    Bishop Fulton J. Sheen

    “It takes a very long time to become young.” Pablo Picasso

  13. #28

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    Ivey weighs in ...

    "The dogs bark but the caravan moves on."
    .....................The Zengrifter Interview (PDF) |
    The Zengrifter / James Grosjean Reputation Debate
    -----------------------------------------
    “Truth, like gold, is obtained not by growth, but by washing away all that is not gold.” — Leo Tolstoy........
    "Is everything a conspiracy? No, just the important stuff." ZG

  14. #29

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    Phil Ivey just lost his FIRST cheating suit, UK judge rules in favor of casino ...

    From the Washington Post -

    An expert witness who testified on Ivey’s behalf told The Washington Post the gambler was allowed to control the way the game was played because he is a high roller. “High rollers are a precious commodity in the casino industry, and so they are ceded any number of special requests to get their business,” said Eliot Jacobson, a self-described “advantage-play expert” and a former professor at the University of California at Santa Barbara who taught computer science. “It’s competition for scarce resources.”

    Jacobson, whose clients include casinos, strongly disagreed with the outcome. The judge “said going forward in the future a casino in the U.K. can be ignorant and should a player come in and win money off them using a new method, the casino doesn’t have to be accountable for their ignorance at all,” Jacobson said. “That to me seems an absurdity.”


    Imagine you go to a casino to play blackjack. You find a table, sit down and buy some chips. Gambling has few barriers to entry.

    After awhile, you notice: For some reason, all of the cards higher than 9 are marked. Because of some slight imperfection in the deck, you can tell whether a card is an ace, king, queen, jack or ten before it’s turned over. Because of a manufacturer’s mistake, you have a huge advantage over the house. And the dealer doesn’t notice.

    You decide to stay at the table. You win $12.4 million dollars. But later, the casino figures out how you won, says you cheated and refuses to pay. So you sue.

    So: What’s a judge to do? Were your gains ill-gotten — or is it the casino’s responsibility to watch its own back?

    A different version of this question was put before a British court after American poker pro Phil Ivey sued a London casino. In 2012, Ivey was accused of cheating at Punto Banco, a form of baccarat, by Crockfords, which withheld Ivey’s $12.4 million winnings.

    And on Wednesday, Her Majesty’s High Court of Justice decided Ivey had done wrong — and won’t get paid.

    “He gave himself an advantage which the game precludes,” Judge John Mitting said, as Bloomberg reported. “This is in my view cheating.”

    "The dogs bark but the caravan moves on."
    .....................The Zengrifter Interview (PDF) |
    The Zengrifter / James Grosjean Reputation Debate
    -----------------------------------------
    “Truth, like gold, is obtained not by growth, but by washing away all that is not gold.” — Leo Tolstoy........
    "Is everything a conspiracy? No, just the important stuff." ZG

  15. #30

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    What does one expect when fascists are in control of the system? Phil got screwed by Elizabeth's Kangaroo Kourt! Crockfords is a crock of shit.

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