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    Default The Greatest Lie Ever Told

    Someone called Jesus died for your sins.

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    Dogma schmogma

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    Name:  ALSAN LOL.jpg
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    Still obsessing with the RCC, I see. Why don't you take instructions in the faith. Contact the RCIA (Rite of Christian Initiation for Adults) at a Catholic Church near you.
    Aslan 11/1/90 - 6/15/10 Stormy 1/22/95 -8/23/10
    “There are not one hundred people in the United States who hate The Catholic Church,
    but there are millions who hate what they wrongly perceive the Catholic Church to be.”
    Bishop Fulton J. Sheen

    “It takes a very long time to become young.” Pablo Picasso

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    Quote Originally Posted by Katweezel View Post
    Someone called Jesus died for your sins.
    Properly translated in correct english it would be "Jesus died because of the sinful people".
    Last edited by Arkham Knight; August 27th, 2012 at 08:18 AM.
    When you have eliminated all the impossible, whatever remains, however implausible, must be the logic truth...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Arkham Knight View Post
    Probably translated in correct english it would be "Jesus died because of the sinful people".
    Whatever... Didn't do much good, did it...
    Dogma schmogma

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    Quote Originally Posted by Katweezel View Post
    Whatever... Didn't do much good, did it...
    I was saying that it is obvious that religion was concieved by sinful people, based on that exclamation.

    The expression - "Jesus died for our sins" is referring obviously to those who establised the christian religion.

    Which means simply that religion was concieved by sinful people, the scum of humans.

    Properly translated in correct english it would be "Jesus died because of the sinful people".

    It is obvious that religion was concieved by sinful (croocked) people, based on that exclamation.

    And those crooks just murfered an innocent man on a cross, believing it was their god's wish.

    How the hell these assholes are expecting intelligent people to join their croocked religion?

    WTF?
    Last edited by Arkham Knight; August 27th, 2012 at 08:25 AM.
    When you have eliminated all the impossible, whatever remains, however implausible, must be the logic truth...

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    Quote Originally Posted by aslan View Post
    Still obsessing with the RCC, I see. Why don't you take instructions in the faith. Contact the RCIA (Rite of Christian Initiation for Adults) at a Catholic Church near you.
    Thanks for the tip. I can't help it... that pic of a quizzical ol Pope with that ridiculous high hat and his other getup, along with a funny caption makes me larf every time I see it. LOL.
    Dogma schmogma

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    Quote Originally Posted by Arkham Knight View Post
    I was saying that it is obvious that religion was concieved by sinful people, based on that exclamation.

    The expression - "Jesus died for our sins" is referring obviously to those who establised the christian religion.

    Which means simply that religion was concieved by sinful people, the scum of humans.

    Properly translated in correct english it would be "Jesus died because of the sinful people".

    It is obvious that religion was concieved by sinful (croocked) people, based on that exclamation.

    And those crooks just murfered an innocent man on a cross, believing it was their god's wish.

    How the hell these assholes are expecting intelligent people to join their croocked religion?

    WTF?
    Well obviously they ain't gettin you or me... LOL.
    Dogma schmogma

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    Quote Originally Posted by Arkham Knight View Post
    Properly translated in correct english it would be "Jesus died because of the sinful people".
    Many scholars would dispute your claim, however, you may have chosen a different verse in the Bible. The translations below should make it clear that at least in one place, Christ died/suffered for our sins is the preferred translation, and this without regard for Protestant or Catholic. I would read your translation to mean Jesus died because all people were sinful, because a simple understanding of the scriptures would inform you that it was the sin of Adam and Eve that closed the gates of Paradise, and so from the very start, all mankind was in need of a Messiah, one who would reopen the gates of Paradise. That sin of the parents of the human race meant that all humankind was born in sin, called original sin by Christians, and requiring Baptism to wash away its stain.


    From a very good translation, Douay Rheims: Because Christ also died once for our sins, the just for the unjust: that he might offer us to God, being put to death indeed in the flesh, but enlivened in the spirit, 1 Peter 3:18

    Also. FYI:

    New International Version (©1984)
    For Christ died for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive by the Spirit,

    New Living Translation (©2007)
    Christ suffered for our sins once for all time. He never sinned, but he died for sinners to bring you safely home to God. He suffered physical death, but he was raised to life in the Spirit.

    English Standard Version (©2001)
    For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit,

    New American Standard Bible (©1995)
    For Christ also died for sins once for all, the just for the unjust, so that He might bring us to God, having been put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit;

    King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
    For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:

    International Standard Version (©2008)
    For the Messiah also suffered for sins once for all, an innocent person for the guilty, so that he could bring you to God. He was put to death in a mortal body but was brought to life by the Spirit,

    Aramaic Bible in Plain English (©2010)
    Because The Messiah also died once for the sake of our sins, The Righteous One in the place of sinners, to bring you to God, and he died in body and lived in his Spirit.

    GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)
    This is true because Christ suffered for our sins once. He was an innocent person, but he suffered for guilty people so that he could bring you to God. His body was put to death, but he was brought to life through his spirit.

    King James 2000 Bible (©2003)
    For Christ also has once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but made alive by the Spirit:

    American King James Version
    For Christ also has once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:

    American Standard Version
    Because Christ also suffered for sins once, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God; being put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit;

    Darby Bible Translation
    for Christ indeed has once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God; being put to death in flesh, but made alive in the Spirit,

    English Revised Version
    Because Christ also suffered for sins once, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God; being put to death in the flesh, but quickened in the spirit;

    Webster's Bible Translation
    For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but made alive by the Spirit:

    Weymouth New Testament
    because Christ also once for all died for sins, the innocent One for the guilty many, in order to bring us to God. He was put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit,

    World English Bible
    Because Christ also suffered for sins once, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring you to God; being put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit;

    Young's Literal Translation
    because also Christ once for sin did suffer -- righteous for unrighteous -- that he might lead us to God, having been put to death indeed, in the flesh, and having been made alive in the spirit,

    Jesus Christ came for those who would be sorry for their sins. Those who denied that they were sinners, He turned away from, saying, "They that are well have no need of a physician, but they that are sick. For I came not to call the just, but sinners." (Mark 2:17) I hope you can hear the sarcasm in His voice, because what He is saying is that those who are self-righteous, that is, righteous in their own eyes, and therefore hard of heart, cannot receive His message of repentance, since their hearts are closed to the Word of God. The Scriptures say, "For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God." (Romans 3:23)
    Aslan 11/1/90 - 6/15/10 Stormy 1/22/95 -8/23/10
    “There are not one hundred people in the United States who hate The Catholic Church,
    but there are millions who hate what they wrongly perceive the Catholic Church to be.”
    Bishop Fulton J. Sheen

    “It takes a very long time to become young.” Pablo Picasso

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    Quote Originally Posted by Katweezel View Post
    Well obviously they ain't gettin you or me... LOL.
    You may run, but you cannot hide or get away from the Hound:

    I fled Him, down the arches of the years;
    I fled Him, down the labyrinthine ways
    Of my own mind; and in the mist of tears
    I hid from Him, and under running laughter.
    Up vistaed hopes I sped;
    And shot, precipitated,
    Adown Titanic glooms of chasmed fears,
    From those strong Feet that followed, followed after.
    But with unhurrying chase,
    And unperturbčd pace,
    Deliberate speed, majestic instancy,
    They beat–and a Voice beat
    More instant than the Feet–
    “All things betray thee, who betrayest Me.”
    --Francis Thompson
    Aslan 11/1/90 - 6/15/10 Stormy 1/22/95 -8/23/10
    “There are not one hundred people in the United States who hate The Catholic Church,
    but there are millions who hate what they wrongly perceive the Catholic Church to be.”
    Bishop Fulton J. Sheen

    “It takes a very long time to become young.” Pablo Picasso

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    Quote Originally Posted by aslan View Post
    Many scholars would dispute your claim, however, you may have chosen a different verse in the Bible. The translations below should make it clear that at least in one place, Christ died/suffered for our sins is the preferred translation, and this without regard for Protestant or Catholic. I would read your translation to mean Jesus died because all people were sinful, because a simple understanding of the scriptures would inform you that it was the sin of Adam and Eve that closed the gates of Paradise, and so from the very start, all mankind was in need of a Messiah, one who would reopen the gates of Paradise. That sin of the parents of the human race meant that all humankind was born in sin, called original sin by Christians, and requiring Baptism to wash away its stain.


    From a very good translation, Douay Rheims: Because Christ also died once for our sins, the just for the unjust: that he might offer us to God, being put to death indeed in the flesh, but enlivened in the spirit, 1 Peter 3:18

    Also. FYI:

    New International Version (©1984)
    For Christ died for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive by the Spirit,

    New Living Translation (©2007)
    Christ suffered for our sins once for all time. He never sinned, but he died for sinners to bring you safely home to God. He suffered physical death, but he was raised to life in the Spirit.

    English Standard Version (©2001)
    For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit,

    New American Standard Bible (©1995)
    For Christ also died for sins once for all, the just for the unjust, so that He might bring us to God, having been put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit;

    King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
    For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:

    International Standard Version (©2008)
    For the Messiah also suffered for sins once for all, an innocent person for the guilty, so that he could bring you to God. He was put to death in a mortal body but was brought to life by the Spirit,

    Aramaic Bible in Plain English (©2010)
    Because The Messiah also died once for the sake of our sins, The Righteous One in the place of sinners, to bring you to God, and he died in body and lived in his Spirit.

    GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)
    This is true because Christ suffered for our sins once. He was an innocent person, but he suffered for guilty people so that he could bring you to God. His body was put to death, but he was brought to life through his spirit.

    King James 2000 Bible (©2003)
    For Christ also has once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but made alive by the Spirit:

    American King James Version
    For Christ also has once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:

    American Standard Version
    Because Christ also suffered for sins once, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God; being put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit;

    Darby Bible Translation
    for Christ indeed has once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God; being put to death in flesh, but made alive in the Spirit,

    English Revised Version
    Because Christ also suffered for sins once, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God; being put to death in the flesh, but quickened in the spirit;

    Webster's Bible Translation
    For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but made alive by the Spirit:

    Weymouth New Testament
    because Christ also once for all died for sins, the innocent One for the guilty many, in order to bring us to God. He was put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit,

    World English Bible
    Because Christ also suffered for sins once, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring you to God; being put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit;

    Young's Literal Translation
    because also Christ once for sin did suffer -- righteous for unrighteous -- that he might lead us to God, having been put to death indeed, in the flesh, and having been made alive in the spirit,

    Jesus Christ came for those who would be sorry for their sins. Those who denied that they were sinners, He turned away from, saying, "They that are well have no need of a physician, but they that are sick. For I came not to call the just, but sinners." (Mark 2:17) I hope you can hear the sarcasm in His voice, because what He is saying is that those who are self-righteous, that is, righteous in their own eyes, and therefore hard of heart, cannot receive His message of repentance, since their hearts are closed to the Word of God. The Scriptures say, "For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God." (Romans 3:23)
    Thank you for clarifying THE GREATEST LIE EVER TOLD.
    Dogma schmogma

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    Quote Originally Posted by Katweezel View Post
    Thank you for clarifying THE GREATEST LIE EVER TOLD.
    You give those ignorant stupid fishermen too much credit. David Copperfield could not have pulled off this one and he's a genius. How did they figure it all out-- hundreds of cross references to the old testament, synchronizing everyone's story, bribing Saul of Taurus to join them, all the fake miracles, keeping the troops from leaking out the truth, and on and on.... fishermen get rich scheme! Oh, and then 11 out of 12 of them getting murdered for sticking to their story! Man! You expect me to believe an even more incredible story!!! Sorry, Kat, but nice try!
    Last edited by aslan; August 27th, 2012 at 08:05 PM.
    Aslan 11/1/90 - 6/15/10 Stormy 1/22/95 -8/23/10
    “There are not one hundred people in the United States who hate The Catholic Church,
    but there are millions who hate what they wrongly perceive the Catholic Church to be.”
    Bishop Fulton J. Sheen

    “It takes a very long time to become young.” Pablo Picasso

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    Quote Originally Posted by aslan View Post
    You give those ignorant stupid fishermen too much credit. David Copperfield could not have pulled off this one and he's a genius. How did they figure it all out-- hundreds of cross references to the old testament, synchronizing everyone's story, bribing Saul of Taurus to join them, all the fake miracles, keeping the troops from leaking out the truth, and on and on.... fishermen get rich scheme! Oh, and then 11 out of 12 of them getting murdered for sticking to their story! Man! You expect me to believe an even more incredible story!!! Sorry, Kat, but nice try!
    Are the stupid ignorant fishermen you mention the same ones that not only deserted their jobs but also deserted their wives and families in order to follow a vagabond, homeless and unemployed hippie-Jew in begging?

    These "Hundreds of cross-references" you refer to have been shown mostly to have been inserted after the fact. Your fake miracles: what a surprise... the same ones were performed much earlier in history by other fake "Saviors".

    As for your proclaimed martyrs, Islam has a lot more. If someone is stupid enough to die for a religious belief, what more can you say? Enuff said. I see scholars are now saying the the vast numbers of Christian martyrs that Christians are so proud of lauding have now been shown to be grossly exaggerated. Even the Jehovah's Witnesses are very proud of their German martyrs that Hitler had put to death because they refused to renounce JW and pledge allegiance to the Nazi cause.

    Down through history, humans have always been quick to believe in myths. Like Jesus the Savior, there is just as much hand-me-down "evidence" to prove the existence of Bigfoot, The Abominable Snowman, Tinker Belle, The Tooth Fairy, Santa Claus, Puff The Magic Fire-Breathing Dragon, Talking Snakes, Mermaids, Goblins, Burning Bushes, Oceans parting just in time and then closing again just in time to drown the pursuing army, and "God" having a favorite race.

    So how's that Greatest Lie Evah workin out for ya?
    Dogma schmogma

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    Quote Originally Posted by Katweezel View Post
    Are the stupid ignorant fishermen you mention the same ones that not only deserted their jobs but also deserted their wives and families in order to follow a vagabond, homeless and unemployed hippie-Jew in begging? Which can only mean that that vagabond, homeless and unemployed hippie-Jew must have told them something that was worth leaving everything behind, and I don't think that something was the latest drug fad. You make my case for me!

    These "Hundreds of cross-references" you refer to have been shown mostly to have been inserted after the fact. Your fake miracles: what a surprise... the same ones were performed much earlier in history by other fake "Saviors". They could not have inserted all the prefigurements and references to Jesus into the Torah, the Old Testament, because they did not have control over those books of the Bible, the Jews did and still have. The fact is, only the Messiah could have revealed the real embedded menaing of all those references to Himself that authenticate His ministry and His willing death on the cross for our sins. The miracles, I will grant you, could have been faked. But men do not participate in the faking of miracles, like the raising of Lazarus from the dead, and then turn around and die for this fake religion that they know to be fake.

    As for your proclaimed martyrs, Islam has a lot more. If someone is stupid enough to die for a religious belief, what more can you say? Enuff said.Not enuf said, because you just got through saying that these men lied about the entire thing, so how is it that men die for a religion that they know to be false. It's one thing to die mistakenly for a religion thought to be true, another thing altogether to die for what is known to be false. Men do not willingly put their lives on the line for what they know to be false. Therefore, it follows that they did not lie about Jesus or his miracles, or His mission, or His resurrection, but surely they believed it, and that is why they were willing to die for Him. I see scholars are now saying the the vast numbers of Christian martyrs that Christians are so proud of lauding have now been shown to be grossly exaggerated. Even the Jehovah's Witnesses are very proud of their German martyrs that Hitler had put to death because they refused to renounce JW and pledge allegiance to the Nazi cause.

    Down through history, humans have always been quick to believe in myths.You can't have it both ways. If they lied about Jesus and created the myth out of whole cloth then they did not believe in it, and it was only a myth to those who later followed, but that doesn't make sense, because men don't die willingly for a lie that they themselves created. Go back to school and find ways to make your lie more believable, because it is obvious that you yourself are the one creating a lie in order to destroy what you deem a myth without the necessary evidence. Your belief that Christianity is a myth seems more akin to a religion than to something reasoned out. You insist even when confronted with evidence to the contrary. I have to conclude that your "belief" that Christianity is a lie, is the real myth. Like Jesus the Savior, there is just as much hand-me-down "evidence" to prove the existence of Bigfoot, The Abominable Snowman, Tinker Belle, The Tooth Fairy, Santa Claus, Puff The Magic Fire-Breathing Dragon, Talking Snakes, Mermaids, Goblins, Burning Bushes, Oceans parting just in time and then closing again just in time to drown the pursuing army, and "God" having a favorite race. Just words and drama, and not an ounce of truth. There is plenty of evidence about Jesus, His life, His teachings, and His early church, but you are stubbornly bent on trying to disprove it. Your case is weak, but the case for belief in Christ is strong, and clearly evident.
    So how's that Greatest Lie Evah workin out for ya?
    Pretty darn good, thank you!
    Aslan 11/1/90 - 6/15/10 Stormy 1/22/95 -8/23/10
    “There are not one hundred people in the United States who hate The Catholic Church,
    but there are millions who hate what they wrongly perceive the Catholic Church to be.”
    Bishop Fulton J. Sheen

    “It takes a very long time to become young.” Pablo Picasso

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    Quote Originally Posted by aslan View Post
    You give those ignorant stupid fishermen too much credit. David Copperfield could not have pulled off this one and he's a genius. How did they figure it all out-- hundreds of cross references to the old testament, synchronizing everyone's story, bribing Saul of Taurus to join them, all the fake miracles, keeping the troops from leaking out the truth, and on and on.... fishermen get rich scheme! Oh, and then 11 out of 12 of them getting murdered for sticking to their story! Man! You expect me to believe an even more incredible story!!! Sorry, Kat, but nice try!
    Christian religion is based on sado-masochism, so nothing strange that they were willing to die.
    When you have eliminated all the impossible, whatever remains, however implausible, must be the logic truth...

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