+ Reply to Thread
Results 1 to 15 of 359

Thread: 50 Reason Why The Bible Lacks Credibility IMO

Hybrid View

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Third base
    Posts
    11,322

    Default 50 Reason Why The Bible Lacks Credibility IMO

    #1 of 50 The Bible has been the reference book for all kinds of insanity and atrocities down through the ages.

    These quotes below concern that 700-year dark period of human existence called the Inquisition. Up until the Reformation there was only one church: the RCC; and it exercised absolute power. The Bible was its reference book. The Bible has proved a terrible reference book and should never be taken seriously; and should never be read by young impressionable minds. Inquisition and Catholic quotes from people of note:

    "In all the disputes which have excited Christians against each other, Rome has invariably decided in favor of that opinion which tended most towards the suppression of the human intellect and the annihilation of the reasoning powers." Voltaire

    "The period of Catholic ascendancy was on the whole one of the most deplorable in the history of the human mind. . . . The spirit that shrinks from enquiry as sinful and deems a state of doubt a state of guilt, is the most enduring disease that can afflict the mind of man. Not till the education of Europe passed from the monasteries to the universities, not till Mohammedan science, and classical free thought, and industrial independence broke the scepter of the Church, did the intellectual revival of Europe begin." William E. H. Lecky

    "The Papacy was corrupt for whole centuries: especially from about 880 to 1050 and (with a short decent pontificate at rare intervals) 1290 to about 1660. No 'primacy' in any other organized religion has so disgraceful a record." Joseph McCabe

    "It was even possible for the most venerated patriarchs of the Church, like St. Augustine and St. Thomas Aquinas, to conclude that heretics should be tortured (Augustine) or killed outright (Aquinas)." Sam Harris "

    J. M. Robertson has estimated that from the first crusade launched by Pope Urban II in 1095 to the fall of Acre . . . in 1291, nine million lives were lost. This may be an overestimation, but the number is certainly in the millions and represents only the beginning of the carnage which places the Catholic Church in the same league with the Third Reich and the purges of Stalin or Mao. Before the crusades against the 'heathens' were concluded, the popes began an internal crusade against heretics within Christendom. The resulting Inquisition lasted officially almost 600 years and resulted in the loss of additional millions of lives." Joseph Daleiden

    "The principle of the Inquisition was murderous. . . . The popes were not only murderers in the great style, but they also made murder a legal basis of the Christian Church and a condition of salvation." Lord Acton

    "By far the cruelest aspect of the inquisitional system was the means by which confessions were wrought: the torture chamber. Torture remained a legal option for the Church from 1252 when it was sanctioned by Pope Innocent IV until 1917 when the new Codex Juris Canonici was put into effect. . . . Thus, with license granted by the Pope himself, inquisitors were free to explore the depths of horror and cruelty. . . . The Inquisition invented every conceivable device to inflict pain by slowly dismembering and dislocating the body. Many of these devices were inscribed with the motto 'Glory be only to God.'" Helen Ellerbe

    "The perpetrators of the Inquisition - the torturers, informers, and those who commanded their actions - were ecclesiastics of one rank or another. They were men of God - popes, bishops, friars, and priests." Sam Harris

    "She [the Catholic Church] worked hard at it night and day during nine centuries and imprisoned, tortured, hanged, and burned whole hordes and armies of witches, and washed the Christian world clean with their foul blood. Then it was discovered that there was no such thing as witches, and never had been. One doesn’t know whether to laugh or to cry. Who discovered that there was no such thing as a witch - the priest, the parson? No, these never discover anything. . . ." Mark Twain

    "I read in the newspaper that the Catholic Church finally decided that it had been theologically improper to try to convert the Jews. Whoops! Sorry for all those inquisitions, crusades, and autos-da-fe. Previous popes were wrong - infallible, perhaps, but wrong." Alan Dershowitz

    "[T]he Spanish Conquistadors of the early 16th century . . . , accompanied by the ever present ambitious priests and professing the utmost devotion to the Catholic faith, managed to destroy within a few decades the Aztec and Inca nations and [cause] the death of over 100 million of their people in the process." Arthur Blech

    "In medieval times, the Church used to sell 'indulgences' for money. This amounted to paying for some number of days' remission from purgatory, and the Church literally (and with breathtaking presumption) issued signed certificates specifying the number of days off that had been purchased. . . . And of all its money-making rip-offs, the selling of indulgences must surely rank among the greatest con tricks in history. . . ." Richard Dawkins

    "Up until 1878 young boys in the Sistine Choir with the most pleasing high voices were castrated so their voices wouldn't change. Were these young boys given a right to life?" W. F. Dean

    "Benito Mussolini had barely seized power in Italy before the Vatican made an official treaty with him. . . . Catholicism became the only recognized religion in Italy . . . and in return urged its followers to vote for Mussolini's party. Pope Pius XI described [Mussolini] as 'a man sent by providence.' . . . Across southern Europe, the church was a reliable ally in the instatement of fascist regimes. . . ." Christopher Hitchens

    "The consequences of the popes' ill-conceived dictates [about contraception] are as catastrophic as the persecution of heretics in bygone years. The result will be, in effect, to sentence millions to face starvation and hundreds of millions more to a marginal, subhuman existence."
    Joseph Daleiden

    "Ironically, the pope's opposition to contraceptives results in hundreds of thousands of abortions, most in illegal and unsafe conditions that threaten women's lives. Due primarily to the lack of readily available contraception, 55 million abortions are performed in the world annually. Worldwide, 182,000 women die each year from dangerous abortions. In the United States, where . . . women's right to abortion has been recognized since 1973 (over the Church's strenuous opposition), the death rate for women who obtain abortions has dropped almost 90%. So by opposing contraceptives and legalized abortion, the pope is in effect sentencing many women to die." Joseph Daleiden

    "That church teaches us that we can make God happy by being miserable ourselves; that a nun is holier in the sight of God than a loving mother with her child in her thrilled and thrilling arms; that a priest is better than a father; that celibacy is better than that passion of love that has made everything of beauty in this world. That church tells the girl of sixteen or eighteen years of age, with eyes like dew and light; that girl with the red of health in the white of her beautiful cheeks - tells that girl, 'Put on the veil, woven of death and night, kneel upon stones, and you will please God.' I tell you that, by law, no girl should be allowed to take the veil and renounce the joys and beauties of this life." Robert Ingersoll

    "Catholicism is contrary to human liberty. Catholicism bases salvation upon belief. Catholicism teaches man to trample his reason under foot. And for that reason it is wrong." Robert Ingersoll

    The Pope "Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain." Oz


    Last edited by Katweezel; April 21st, 2012 at 10:56 PM. Reason: Salute to those who speak the truth
    Dogma schmogma

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Third base
    Posts
    11,322

    Default

    During the 1880s, Dr. H. Grattan Guinness preached the following:

    "I see the great Apostasy, I see the desolation of Christendom, I see the smoking ruins, I see the reign of monsters; I see those vice-gods, that Gregory VII, that Innocent III, that Boniface Vlll, that Alexander Vl, that Gregory XIII, that Pius IX; I see their long succession, I hear their insufferable blasphemies, I see their abominable lives; I see them worshipped by blinded generations, bestowing hollow benedictions, bartering away worthless promises of heaven; I see their liveried slaves, their shaven priests, their celibate confessors; I see the infamous confessional, the ruined women, the murdered innocents; I hear the lying absolutions, the dying groans; I hear the cries of the victims; I hear the anathemas, the curses, the thunders of the interdicts; I see the racks, the dungeons, the stakes; I see that inhuman Inquisition, those fires of Smithfield, those butcheries of St. Bartholomew, that Spanish Armada, those unspeakable dragonnades, that endless train of wars, that dreadful multitude of massacres. I see it all, and in the name of the ruin it has brought in the Church and in the world, in the name of the truth it has denied, the temple it has defiled, the God it has blasphemed, the souls it has destroyed; in the name of the millions it has deluded, the millions it has slaughtered, the millions it has damned; with holy confessors, with noble reformers, with innumerable martyrs, with the saints of ages, I denounce it as the masterpiece of Satan, as the body and soul and essence of antichrist."

    Name:  aa death.jpg
Views: 480
Size:  46.0 KB

    Dogma schmogma

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    posting from Bethesda, MD
    Posts
    13,912

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Katweezel View Post
    #1 of 50 The Bible has been the reference book for all kinds of insanity and atrocities down through the ages.

    These quotes below concern that 700-year dark period of human existence called the Inquisition. Up until ...........
    Wow! To think your ancestors did all that!

    BTW, you forgot to mention the Protestant Inquisition.

    What I want to know, "Is locking the door to your house the cause of criminals breaking and entering?"

    A lot of people have done a lot of bad things in the name of religion. No dispute there. But how does the teaching of Jesus cause problems?

    How does the Church teaching that contraception is wrong "cause" abortion or starvation. There is plenty of food to go around in the world, and many generous nations contributing food, funds and medicines. It seems to me that starvation is caused by greedy people/rulers who intercept foods and funds intended for needy populations.

    It seems to me that no one who has an "unwanted" pregnancy is thereby "required" to abort that unborn child. It seems to me that people are clamoring to adopt children every day, yet millions are killed in the womb.

    It seems to me, also, that if children are unwanted, it is better that sexual relations be avoided. Better that a man masturbate than an unborn child be aborted. Better yet that a man exercise self control over his bodily functions than be a slave to sexual pleasure.

    In the US a woman has a legal right to have an abortion, but no one has a moral right to take human life. The legal right to abortion is a bad law. It is legalizing the murder of unborn children. Look for me each year on Capitol Hill marching for the repeal of Roe vs. Wade.

    I don't know what church teaches that that the priesthood is better than the married life. The Catholic Church teaches that each person has his own calling, some to married life, some to priesthood, some to single life. All are equal, but different roles. The Church teaches that some are called to priesthood and it encourages those persons to respond. However, it does not want every person to aspire to priesthood, because not everyone is called to that role in life. There is nothing worse than a bad priest. For example, even with all the testing and screening that is currently in place to prevent pedophiles from joining the priesthood, some still manage to sneak in.
    Aslan 11/1/90 - 6/15/10 Stormy 1/22/95 -8/23/10
    “There are not one hundred people in the United States who hate The Catholic Church,
    but there are millions who hate what they wrongly perceive the Catholic Church to be.”
    Bishop Fulton J. Sheen

    “It takes a very long time to become young.” Pablo Picasso

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Third base
    Posts
    11,322

    Default

    #2 of 50... Why should any book that condones slavery be taken seriously?

    Wiki has 750,000 dead soldiers, casualties in the American Civil War (1861-1865). Slavery was one of the chief issues. Twenty million African blacks were sold into slavery by their white, European, Christian (and Muslim) masters. The Christians saw nothing immoral as God condones slavery (as does Jesus) in several Holy Bible texts. Condoning slavery makes it the Unholy Bible.

    Slavery in the Bible
    Except for murder, slavery has got to be one of the most immoral things a person can do. Yet slavery is rampant throughout the Bible in both the Old and New Testaments. The Bible clearly approves of slavery in many passages, and it goes so far as to tell how to obtain slaves, how hard you can beat them, and when you can have sex with the female slaves.

    Many Jews and Christians will try to ignore the moral problems of slavery by saying that these slaves were actually servants or indentured servants. Many translations of the Bible use the word "servant", "bondservant", or "manservant" instead of "slave" to make the Bible seem less immoral than it really is. While many slaves may have worked as household servants, that doesn't mean that they were not slaves who were bought, sold, and treated worse than livestock.

    The following passage shows that slaves are clearly property to be bought and sold like livestock.

    However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way. (Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT)

    The following passage describes how the Hebrew slaves are to be treated.

    If you buy a Hebrew slave, he is to serve for only six years. Set him free in the seventh year, and he will owe you nothing for his freedom. If he was single when he became your slave and then married afterward, only he will go free in the seventh year. But if he was married before he became a slave, then his wife will be freed with him. If his master gave him a wife while he was a slave, and they had sons or daughters, then the man will be free in the seventh year, but his wife and children will still belong to his master. But the slave may plainly declare, 'I love my master, my wife, and my children. I would rather not go free.' If he does this, his master must present him before God. Then his master must take him to the door and publicly pierce his ear with an awl. After that, the slave will belong to his master forever. (Exodus 21:2-6 NLT)

    Notice how they can get a male Hebrew slave to become a permanent slave by keeping his wife and children hostage until he says he wants to become a permanent slave. What kind of family values are these?

    The following passage describes the sickening practice of sex slavery. How can anyone think it is moral to sell your own daughter as a sex slave?

    When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her. And if the slave girl's owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave girl, but he must treat her as his daughter. If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife. If he fails in any of these three ways, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment. (Exodus 21:7-11 NLT)

    So these are the Bible family values! A man can buy as many sex slaves as he wants as long as he feeds them, clothes them, and screws them!

    What does the Bible say about beating slaves? It says you can beat both male and female slaves with a rod so hard that as long as they don't die right away you are cleared of any wrong doing.

    When a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod so hard that the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished. If, however, the slave survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave is his own property. (Exodus 21:20-21 NAB)

    You would think that Jesus and the New Testament would have a different view of slavery, but slavery is still approved of in the New Testament, as the following passages show.

    Slaves, obey your earthly masters with deep respect and fear. Serve them sincerely as you would serve Christ. (Ephesians 6:5 NLT)

    Christians who are slaves should give their masters full respect so that the name of God and his teaching will not be shamed. If your master is a Christian, that is no excuse for being disrespectful. You should work all the harder because you are helping another believer by your efforts. Teach these truths, Timothy, and encourage everyone to obey them. (1 Timothy 6:1-2 NLT)

    In the following parable, Jesus clearly approves of beating slaves even if they didn't know they were doing anything wrong.

    The servant will be severely punished, for though he knew his duty, he refused to do it. "But people who are not aware that they are doing wrong will be punished only lightly. Much is required from those to whom much is given, and much more is required from those to whom much more is given." (Luke 12:47-48 NLT)

    Dogma schmogma

  5. #5
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    952

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Katweezel View Post
    #

    Wiki has 750,000 dead soldiers, casualties in the American Civil War (1861-1865). Slavery was one of the chief issues. Twenty million African blacks were sold into slavery by their white, European, Christian (and Muslim) masters.

    Get your US history right. The Civil War was entirely economic and fought over state's rights. The North was trying to develop industry but couldn't compete with british industry who could export US raw materials make goods in Britain and ship them back to US and sell them cheaper than Northern industry could. The Federal Government passed laws designed to hurt British imports while favoring Northern industry so they could compete. The regulations hurt the South which produced the raw material for both industrial groups. Slavery was thrown in more than halfway through the war and would not have been a part of it if the North could figure another way for them to gain more military advantage at the time. Only slaves in Confederate states were freed. It had nothing to do with being against slavery as this last sentence indicates. It was about weakening the Confederacy. Historians have recently successfully rewritten history to reflect a more noble cause for the Civil War.

    The blacks taken from Africa as slaves were more often than not sold into slavery to the Slave Traders (mostly European) by rival tribes of Africans. Slavery has existed for longer than the written word has existed. Many would argue it still exists in every country in one form or another today. I know I feel my government is selling me and the next several generations into slavery by their spending trillions they don't have every year. Most of our income is already payed in taxes of one form or another with little left for the wage earner. It gets worse every year.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    posting from Bethesda, MD
    Posts
    13,912

    Default

    Truth is that many African blacks were sold into slavery by other African blacks. The vast majority of African slaves were shipped to South America, not the US. The Bible recognized the reality of slavery as part of the system in then place. One of the major themes of the Old Testament was God's liberation of the Jewish nation from slavery in Egypt. The New Testament declares that there is neither slave nor free man, but all are one in Christ Jesus.
    Aslan 11/1/90 - 6/15/10 Stormy 1/22/95 -8/23/10
    “There are not one hundred people in the United States who hate The Catholic Church,
    but there are millions who hate what they wrongly perceive the Catholic Church to be.”
    Bishop Fulton J. Sheen

    “It takes a very long time to become young.” Pablo Picasso

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Third base
    Posts
    11,322

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by aslan View Post
    Truth is that many African blacks were sold into slavery by other African blacks. The vast majority of African slaves were shipped to South America, not the US. The Bible recognized the reality of slavery as part of the system in then place. One of the major themes of the Old Testament was God's liberation of the Jewish nation from slavery in Egypt. The New Testament declares that there is neither slave nor free man, but all are one in Christ Jesus.
    The Portuguese head the import of slaves list (4M) with other Euros prominent and the US well down the list on a mere 500K. Your (Bible texts) argument looks like an attempt to somewhat justify those abominable Bible texts that clearly condone slavery; but it falls well short of convincing. Having known you cyberally now, for nigh on what seems like decades, I'm confident that those questionable Bible texts that I find extremely offensive also, deep down, offend the humanist in you also.
    Last edited by Katweezel; April 22nd, 2012 at 08:59 PM.
    Dogma schmogma

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Third base
    Posts
    11,322

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by shred View Post
    Get your US history right. The Civil War was entirely economic and fought over state's rights. The North was trying to develop industry but couldn't compete with british industry who could export US raw materials make goods in Britain and ship them back to US and sell them cheaper than Northern industry could. The Federal Government passed laws designed to hurt British imports while favoring Northern industry so they could compete. The regulations hurt the South which produced the raw material for both industrial groups. Slavery was thrown in more than halfway through the war and would not have been a part of it if the North could figure another way for them to gain more military advantage at the time. Only slaves in Confederate states were freed. It had nothing to do with being against slavery as this last sentence indicates. It was about weakening the Confederacy. Historians have recently successfully rewritten history to reflect a more noble cause for the Civil War.

    The blacks taken from Africa as slaves were more often than not sold into slavery to the Slave Traders (mostly European) by rival tribes of Africans. Slavery has existed for longer than the written word has existed. Many would argue it still exists in every country in one form or another today. I know I feel my government is selling me and the next several generations into slavery by their spending trillions they don't have every year. Most of our income is already payed in taxes of one form or another with little left for the wage earner. It gets worse every year.
    Right, thanks for the lesson in Civil War history. As for the issue of slavery being condoned in several Bible texts, I take it (inference by omission) that you, too, are indeed disgusted and seriously disappointed that "God" should include such abominations in his "Holy Book". And I'm only up to #2...
    Dogma schmogma

  9. #9
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    952

    Default

    Slavery was a world wide thing in Biblical times. Most of the passages I can think of have to do with the proper treatment of slaves but I know there are a few that one could use like the punishments for mistreating slaves that today seem wacky. I usually try to focus on the symbolic. It is in many, many layers for various stages of development. I am at symbolic layer and see that there is a code that can be cracked by computer at a higher layer but we really haven't gotten to where the computer encoding in the hebrew is useful yet. It was noticed well before computers existed but since computers can decode so much faster we can see it everywhere in the text.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    posting from Bethesda, MD
    Posts
    13,912

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Katweezel View Post
    Right, thanks for the lesson in Civil War history. As for the issue of slavery being condoned in several Bible texts, I take it (inference by omission) that you, too, are indeed disgusted and seriously disappointed that "God" should include such abominations in his "Holy Book". And I'm only up to #2...
    Biblical texts are inspired by God, not dictated. The mention of things like slavery does not in any way imply that God condones it. It's strange that people who believe the Bible is divinely inspired do not believe that God condones slavery, yet you, who does not believe in the Bible, thinks that it does. It really makes it a moot point, since believers are reading it entirely different than you are.
    Aslan 11/1/90 - 6/15/10 Stormy 1/22/95 -8/23/10
    “There are not one hundred people in the United States who hate The Catholic Church,
    but there are millions who hate what they wrongly perceive the Catholic Church to be.”
    Bishop Fulton J. Sheen

    “It takes a very long time to become young.” Pablo Picasso

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    posting from Bethesda, MD
    Posts
    13,912

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Katz View Post
    So Russia is defending Christian values, is it? Er, what exactly are those Christian values again? We need to be reminded how good they are. Are they those tired old Hebrew Ten Commandments? Or are they the ones that Jesus said, like love your enemy when Judea was occupied by cruel and ruthless Roman soldiers, or was it turn the other cheek after someone whacks you? or was it love your Jewish neighbour?

    Did Vlad follow Christian values when his KBG colleague in London got a lethal dose of radioactive isotope in his tea a few years back? How about when all those towelheads got the chop in Chechnya? What has changed Vlad's spots? Oh, I know, it must have been Jesus.
    Didn't Christ come to call sinners to salvation? If it weren't for the hypocrites, who would fill our churches? Your own perfection obviates the need for you to join the Church, but if you ever feel the need to admit to a less than sterling life, you might consider it.
    Aslan 11/1/90 - 6/15/10 Stormy 1/22/95 -8/23/10
    “There are not one hundred people in the United States who hate The Catholic Church,
    but there are millions who hate what they wrongly perceive the Catholic Church to be.”
    Bishop Fulton J. Sheen

    “It takes a very long time to become young.” Pablo Picasso

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    In the YO
    Posts
    15,587

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by aslan View Post
    Didn't Christ come to call sinners to salvation? If it weren't for the hypocrites, who would fill our churches? Your own perfection obviates the need for you to join the Church, but if you ever feel the need to admit to a less than sterling life, you might consider it.
    Salvation? He left that for the Salvation Army. Are you saying your church is full of hypocrites? Thank you again for your kind offer to join your church, but I cannot because to do so I would only be a hypocrite. And at the moment as a devout heretic, I ain't one hypocrite.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    posting from Bethesda, MD
    Posts
    13,912

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Katz View Post
    Salvation? He left that for the Salvation Army. Are you saying your church is full of hypocrites? Thank you again for your kind offer to join your church, but I cannot because to do so I would only be a hypocrite. And at the moment as a devout heretic, I ain't one hypocrite.
    The Church is a hospital for sinners, not a sanctuary for saints.
    Aslan 11/1/90 - 6/15/10 Stormy 1/22/95 -8/23/10
    “There are not one hundred people in the United States who hate The Catholic Church,
    but there are millions who hate what they wrongly perceive the Catholic Church to be.”
    Bishop Fulton J. Sheen

    “It takes a very long time to become young.” Pablo Picasso

+ Reply to Thread

Similar Threads

  1. The Reason JFK Jr. Was Murdered
    By zengrifter in forum ZenZone General Discussion
    Replies: 55
    Last Post: December 15th, 2014, 05:07 AM
  2. The TRUE Reason for the Civil War...
    By zengrifter in forum History, Secret or Otherwise
    Replies: 180
    Last Post: July 23rd, 2014, 04:20 AM
  3. One Reason to Believe in Christianity
    By aslan in forum Religious Cults & Spirituality
    Replies: 16
    Last Post: June 14th, 2014, 10:53 PM
  4. One reason you should be a Christian
    By moo321 in forum Religious Cults & Spirituality
    Replies: 85
    Last Post: March 22nd, 2014, 08:15 PM
  5. The reason why sh*t happens
    By Katweezel in forum Anything Else But
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: April 16th, 2011, 11:48 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts