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Thread: 50 Reason Why The Bible Lacks Credibility IMO

  1. #91
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    #18 of 50... Nobody Knows Who Wrote the Bible. (So why should it be taken seriously?)

    Anonymous Authors: No one knows who wrote the bulk of the texts that make up the Bible and most of the names we’ve been given are from tradition. This applies to both the Old Testament and the New Testament. We also do not know when they written and can only make “best guesses” regarding their origins. I read once (and agree) that if you get five biblical scholars in a room, you’ll get seven different opinions on biblical authorship. For every “Moses didn’t write this” is a “of course, not – Aaron did” and a “you’re both wrong, Jacob did” and of course “no, all three of you are wrong. Moses wrote it.” And round and round we go.

    [Link above is to Richard Friedman's book Who Wrote The Bible?]
    Last edited by Katweezel; May 24th, 2012 at 04:56 AM.
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    #19 of 50... The Bible is not unique in claiming to be the Word of God.

    Other Books: The Bible is not unique in claiming to be the word of a god and is in fact just one of many such works. Other such works include (but not limited to):
    • Qur’an (Islam)
    • Egyptian Book of the Dead (spells & rules concerning the afterlife for ancient Egyptians)
    • Vedas (Hindu)
    • Bhagavad Gitas (Hindu)
    • Tantras (Buddhism)
    • Adi Granth (Sikhism)
    • Purvas (Jainism)
    • Tripitaka (Pali, Chinese & Tibetan – Buddhism)
    • Tao Te Ching (Buddhism)
    • Book of Mormon (Christianity: Latter Day Saints)
    • Dianetics (Scientology)
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katweezel View Post
    #19 of 50... The Bible is not unique in claiming to be the Word of God.

    This is correct. But it IS the only book unique in actually BEING the Word of God!
    Aslan 11/1/90 - 6/15/10 Stormy 1/22/95 -8/23/10
    “There are not one hundred people in the United States who hate The Catholic Church,
    but there are millions who hate what they wrongly perceive the Catholic Church to be.”
    Bishop Fulton J. Sheen

    “It takes a very long time to become young.” Pablo Picasso

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    Quote Originally Posted by aslan View Post
    This is correct. But it IS the only book unique in actually BEING the Word of God!
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  5. #95
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    Confucius say, Blind man have no need cover eyes.
    Aslan 11/1/90 - 6/15/10 Stormy 1/22/95 -8/23/10
    “There are not one hundred people in the United States who hate The Catholic Church,
    but there are millions who hate what they wrongly perceive the Catholic Church to be.”
    Bishop Fulton J. Sheen

    “It takes a very long time to become young.” Pablo Picasso

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    Quote Originally Posted by aslan View Post
    Confucius say, Blind man have no need cover eyes.
    He who has eyes to see, let him see. He who has not eyes to see, do not pluck them out. Get him some new ones. 7Kat 17:67-87.

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    #20 of 50... The Bible Promotes Historical Lies

    History:
    The Bible is also at odds with the actual history of its times and often tells stories upon which there is no evidence to support. The greatest of these is the alleged exodus out of Egypt. It didn’t happen. The same applies to the story of Esther. It routinely gets the history of surrounding civilizations wrong such as crediting a “Darius the Mede” with the taking of Babylon when it was Cyrus of Persia.
    Last edited by Katweezel; May 29th, 2012 at 04:36 AM. Reason: Jesus saves Moses invests
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katweezel View Post
    #20 of 50... The Bible Promotes Historical Lies

    History:
    The Bible is also at odds with the actual history of its times and often tells stories upon which there is no evidence to support. The greatest of these is the alleged exodus out of Egypt. It didn’t happen. The same applies to the story of Esther. It routinely gets the history of surrounding civilizations wrong such as crediting a “Darius the Mede” with the taking of Babylon when it was Cyrus of Persia.
    The Bible may or may not be or seem at odds with the actual history of its times in any given instance and such perception may also depend on who is doing the analysis. The alleged exodus out of Egypt did happen. As to whether or not there is evidence to support any Biblical story is neither here nor there. Truth does not depend on available evidence to corroborate it nor does lack of available evidence invalidate truth. It either is true or it is not true.

    Lastly, the only truth in the Bible that is worth commenting on, except maybe to fundamentalists, is the inspired spiritual truth that it conveys. In that regard, the Bible is 100% true. You waste so much time attacking what you do not understand; better you attempted to understand it.

    I could care less if any historical facts are in error. The Bible is not meant to be a history book, or a social commentary, or a book of ancient customs, or a guide to social organization, or a political statement, or a hundred other things.

    As I have often said, it is inspired to the extent that it conveys spiritual truth on matters of faith and morals. To that extent it is said to be inspired of God. It's teaching were well clarified by Jesus Christ in His teachings recorded therein. Study them and you may come to understand. Keep putting blockades in your own way and you will never understand.

    You have one and only one power and that is the power to will. Will to understand and you will come to understand. Learn what it means to will one thing.
    Aslan 11/1/90 - 6/15/10 Stormy 1/22/95 -8/23/10
    “There are not one hundred people in the United States who hate The Catholic Church,
    but there are millions who hate what they wrongly perceive the Catholic Church to be.”
    Bishop Fulton J. Sheen

    “It takes a very long time to become young.” Pablo Picasso

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    I believe the ZZ SM has the inside running on the Moses/Exodus facts. Herr brother Zengrifter, is the Moses-led Jewish slave-flight from Egypt proved historical fact? The credibility of Christianity itself may rest on your answer. The world waits... as it turns.

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  10. #100
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    Proven schmoven, it doesn't much matter. An interesting fact about the parting of the Red Sea comes from scholars studying the Scriptures. The Bible sometimes contains paragraphs side by side that were actually written centuries apart. Scholars can date writings to some degree by the changes in writing conventions down through the centuries. The two accounts, if you wish yourself to explore the sacred writings, actually give two accounts of the Red Sea crossing. One account is the best known version, the parting of the sea by Moses with the walls of water standing miraculously to the sides as the Israelites walked across on the dry land. The second account, right there, but overlooked by unknowing readers, has it that a fierce storm suddenly came up as the Egyptians crossed the sea in hot pursuit.

    4 Pharao's chariots and his army he hath cast into the sea: his chosen captains are drowned in the Red Sea.

    5 The depths have covered them, they are sunk to the bottom like a stone.
    6 Thy right hand, O Lord, is magnified in strength: thy right hand, O Lord, hath slain the enemy.

    7 And in the multitude of thy glory thou hast put down thy adversaries: thou hast sent thy wrath, which hath devoured them like stubble.

    8 And with the blast of thy anger the waters were gathered together: the flowing water stood, the depth were gathered together in the midst of the sea.
    9 The enemy said: I will pursue and overtake, I will divide the spoils, my soul shall have its fill: I will draw my sword, my hand shall slay them.
    10 Thy wind blew and the sea covered them: they sunk as lead in the mighty waters.


    My understanding is that the seas remained calm as the Israelites crossed, but no sooner had the Egyptians begun their crossing than the a mighty storm came upon them, so strong that the raging waves stood up high like a wall, and the Egyptians were drowned. Maybe the sea was crossed by both in boats, a fact not mentioned, or maybe the sea was shallow and easy at first, but then came a great surge that overcame all who were crossing (an ancient tsunami?), who knows, but the one thing both stories have in common is that the Israelites escaped and the Egyptians did not.

    The story about Moses raising his staff to part the waters was written some six hundred years after the actual events, according to scholars. However, scholars put the story about the sea being suddenly disturbed, as in a storm, as an eyewitness account of those events. Likely what happened is that Pharaoh's armies set out across the sea after the fleeing Israelites only to find themselves caught up in a terrible storm that capsized their boats and drowned every last one of them. The story six hundred years later was a more idealized version. But the same spiritual truth was conveyed in both, that is, that God liberated His people.

    I received this understanding some 35 or more years ago in a theology class in a major Catholic university. Catholics have always been willing to demythologize the Bible as much as possible. The truth of Jesus Christ's incarnation, life, teachings, sacrificial death, resurrection, and ascension remain the cornerstone of Christian faith. Belief in miracles is not necessary to salvation. As countless numbers can testify, God can work wonders in the details of our everyday lives without any provable miracles. If we had provable miracles at every turn, who would need faith in order to believe? Faith is not blind trust, it is a special gift of God that lets us see the truth of Jesus Christ and experience that truth in our everyday lives.
    Last edited by aslan; May 29th, 2012 at 01:45 PM.
    Aslan 11/1/90 - 6/15/10 Stormy 1/22/95 -8/23/10
    “There are not one hundred people in the United States who hate The Catholic Church,
    but there are millions who hate what they wrongly perceive the Catholic Church to be.”
    Bishop Fulton J. Sheen

    “It takes a very long time to become young.” Pablo Picasso

  11. #101

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    Quote Originally Posted by aslan View Post
    Catholics have always been willing to demythologize the Bible as much as possible. The truth of Jesus Christ's incarnation, life, teachings, sacrificial death, resurrection, and ascension remain the cornerstone of Christian faith. Belief in miracles is not necessary to salvation. As countless numbers can testify, God can work wonders in the details of our everyday lives without any provable miracles. If we had provable miracles at every turn, who would need faith in order to believe? Faith is not blind trust, it is a special gift of God that lets us see the truth of Jesus Christ and experience that truth in our everyday lives.
    Back hand to the far court, set point for brother Aslan! zg
    "The dogs bark but the caravan moves on."
    .....................The Zengrifter Interview (PDF) |
    The Zengrifter / James Grosjean Reputation Debate
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    “Truth, like gold, is obtained not by growth, but by washing away all that is not gold.” — Leo Tolstoy........
    "Is everything a conspiracy? No, just the important stuff." ZG

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    Quote Originally Posted by zengrifter View Post
    Back hand to the far court, set point for brother Aslan! zg
    Brother Zen, yours is a very disappointing serve. Brother Aslan has pontificated proven shmoven about Moses, inferring that no proof of any bible absurdities is needed, so long as you believe and have faith, that is all that is needed. I also note Aslan confounding himself by claiming the Bible is the word of God on one hand, and yet on the other hand he claims Catholics don't take much notice of certain stories in the bible. Whoa! He has his cake and eats it too...

    I also note Zen's silence on Moses. Which forces me to ask again, (because Aslan claims the Moses tall tale DID in fact, happen.)
    Zen, IS THE MOSES TALE A HISTORICAL FACT?


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  13. #103
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    #21 of 50... Science: The bible is completely at odds with practically every branch of science.

    It states that humans and other animals were created as is. Evolutionary biology has the evidence that says we and the other animals evolved over the course of millions of years. The Bible states that the earth is thousands of years old. Various branches of the physical sciences (astronomy and geology for example) have the evidence that the earth is billions of years old and that the universe itself is even older. Archaeology and anthropology undermine the uniqueness and factualness of the Bible stories (ie, the flood of Noah is older than the biblical account, the collapsed wall of Jericho predates the biblical story).

    The Biblical World: The bible describes an earth that is a dome covered flat and stationary island-like surface that is the center of the universe in which it is magically suspended. This is flatly false. The earth is a slightly oval shaped planet that rotates on its axis with an orbiting satellite we call the moon. The earth also orbits the sun which is the center of our galaxy with eight other such objects and their respective satellites. Our galaxy is but one of many in the universe and like the others it is in continuous motion.

    The Flat-Earth Bible
    © 1987, 1995 by Robert J. Schadewald Reprinted from The Bulletin of the Tychonian Society #44 (July 1987)
    When I first became interested in the flat-earthers in the early 1970s, I was surprised to learn that flat-earthism in the English-speaking world is and always has been entirely based upon the Bible. I have since assembled and read an extensive collection of flat-earth literature. The Biblical arguments for flat-earthism that follow come mainly from my reading of flat-earth literature, augmented by my own reading of the Bible. Except among Biblical inerrantists, it is generally agreed that the Bible describes an immovable earth. At the 1984 National Bible-Science Conference in Cleveland, geocentrist James N. Hanson told me there are hundreds of scriptures that suggest the earth is immovable. I suspect some must be a bit vague, but here are a few obvious texts:
    1 Chronicles 16:30: “He has fixed the earth firm, immovable.”
    Psalm 93:1: “Thou hast fixed the earth immovable and firm ...”
    Psalm 96:10: “He has fixed the earth firm, immovable ...”
    Psalm 104:5: “Thou didst fix the earth on its foundation so that it never can be shaken.”
    Isaiah 45:18: “...who made the earth and fashioned it, and himself fixed it fast...” Name:  sheep drums.jpg
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    Last edited by Katweezel; June 1st, 2012 at 04:51 AM.
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  14. #104
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    That's the Appian Way there, built by the Romans 2000 years ago...

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    #22 of 50 ... The Bible has many atrocious sentences that personify cruelty, sexism and misogyny.

    For centuries, Bible tracts have been used to persecute women. Church leaders used the fable of Adam and Eve to 'blame' the female as the so-called originator of 'sin'. Witches (90% women) were condemned to cruel deaths using the Exodus text below. Slavery, cruelty and torture was not mentioned at all in the Bible Ten Commandments, which caused the faith to believe those terrible anti-human and anti-life practices must have been sanctioned by 'God'. After all, if He didn't object to them, why should we? For this (biblical) reason, slavery torture and cruelty were considered 'normal'; causing suffering, pain and death for far longer than it should have, if the Bible had received the credibility I believe it had always deserved: ZERO.

    "If women become tired or even die, that does not matter. Let them die in childbirth, that is why they are there." Martin Luther (1483-1546)
    The Biblical view of women
    The God of the Bible decrees that woman must submit to the dominance of man.
    "The social and legal position of an Israelite wife was inferior to the position a wife occupied in the great countries round about... all the texts show that Israelites wanted mainly sons to perpetuate the family line and fortune, and to preserve the ancestral inheritance... A husband could divorce his wife; women on the other hand could not ask for divorce... the wife called her husband Ba'al or master; she also called him adon or lord; she addressed him, in fact, as a slave addressed his master or subject, his king. The Decalogue includes a man's wife among his possessions... all her life she remains a minor. The wife does not inherit from her husband, nor daughters from their father, except when there is no male heir. A vow made by a girl or married woman needs, to be valid, the consent of the father or husband and if this consent is withheld, the vow is null and void. A man had a right to sell his daughter. Women were excluded from the succession."-Roland de Vaux, archaeologist and priest "Th
    When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought
    Slaves, obey your earthly masters with deep respect and fear. Serve them sincerely as you would serve Christ. (Ephesians 6:5 NLT)


    Interpretation of Exodus 22:18

    Exodus 22:18 in 19 English translations of the Bible:

    Various Biblical translations render this verse as:
    1. American Standard Version "Thou shalt not suffer a sorceress to live."
    2. The Answer: Put to death any woman who does evil magic.
    3. Amplified Bible: You shall not allow a woman to live who practices sorcery.
    4. Good News Version: Put to death any woman who practices magic.
    5. James Moffatt Translation: You shall not allow any sorceress to live.
    6. Jerusalem Bible: You shall not allow a sorceress to live.
    7. King James Version: Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live.
    8. Living Bible: A sorceress shall be put to death.
    9. Modern Language Bible: Allow no sorceress to live.
    10. New American Bible: You shall not let a sorceress live.
    11. New American Standard Bible: You shall not let a sorceress live.
    12. New Century Version: Put to death any woman who does evil magic.
    13. New International Version: Do not allow a sorceress to live.
    14. New Living Translation: A sorceress must not be allowed to live.
    15. New Revised Standard Version: You shall not permit a female sorcerer to live.
    16. New World Translation: You must not preserve a sorceress alive.
    17. The Promise: Contemporary English Version: Death is the punishment for witchcraft.
    18. Revised Standard Version: You shall not permit a sorceress to live.
    19. Revised English Bible: You must not allow a witch to live.
    In the original Hebrew manuscript, the author used the word m'khashepah to describe the person who should be killed. The word means a woman who uses spoken spells to harm others - e.g. causing their death or loss of property. Clearly "evil sorceress" or "woman who does evil magic" would be the most accurate phrases in today's English usage for this verse.
    The Good News Bible uses the term "magic." This is also a poor selection because that term has been used to refer to:
    stage magic, sleight of hand, magic tricks.
    ceremonial magic used to harm other persons.
    ceremonial magic used to heal other persons.
    The King James Version and Revised English Bible use the term "witch." In North America, the term normally refers to Wiccans -- the followers of the Wiccan religion. According to the Scofield Reference Bible this verse from the Hebrew Scriptures (Old Testament) was written in the year 1491 BCE. This is some 650 years before the origin of the Celtic people circa 850 BCE from whom some elements of Wicca were taken. So Exodus 22:18 can hardly be referring to Wiccans.

    Leviticus 26:29 "You will eat the flesh of your sons and the flesh of your daughters."

    St Peter referred to women as 'the weaker vessel'.
    St Clement of Alexandria: "Every woman should be filled with shame by the thought that she is a woman."
    St Thomas Aquinas: "Nothing [deficient] should have been produced in the first establishment of things, so woman ought not to have been produced then."
    Bible Apocrypha: "Of woman came the beginning of sin and thanks to her we all must die."
    Corinthians 7:1 "It is a good thing for a man to have nothing to do with a woman.
    "

    (This Corinthians one was probably the anthem for 1600 years of an army of pedo priests.)
    men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her. And if the slave girl's owner arrWhen a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her. And if the slave girl's owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave girl, but he must treat her as his daughter. If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife. If he fails in any of these three ways, she may leave as ithout making any payment. (Exodus 21:7-11 NLT)anges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave girl, but he must treat her as his daughter. If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife. If he fails in any of these three ways, she may leave without making any payment. (Exd I would not that ye should have fellowship with devils. (1 Cor. 10:20)" odus 21:7-11 NLT)ou shalt not suffer a witch to live. (with Exodus.22:18 )", or that "the things which the Gentiles sacrifice, they sacrifice to devils, and not to God; an
    "Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live. (with Exodus.22:18 )",
    "Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live. (with Exodus.22:18 )", or that "the things which the Gentiles sacrifice, they sacrifice to devils, and not to God; and I would not that ye should have fellowship with devils. (1 Cor. 10:20)"
    or that "the things which the Gentiles sacrifice, they sacrifice to devils, and not to God; and I would not that ye should have fellowship with devils. (1 Cor. 10:20)"
    "Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live.
    (with Exodus.22:18 )",
    "Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live. (with Exodus.22:18 )", or that "the things which the Gentiles sacrifice, they sacrifice to devils, and not to God; and I would not that ye should have fellowship with devils. (1 Cor. 10:20)"
    "Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live. (with Exodus.22:18 )", or that "the things which the Gentiles sacrifice, they sacrifice to devils, and not to God; and I would not that ye should have fellowship with devils. (1 Cor. 10:20)"
    or that "the things which the Gentiles sacrifice, they sacrifice to devils, and not to God; and I would not that ye should have fellowship with devils.
    "Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live. (with Exodus.22:18 )", or that "the things which the Gentiles sacrifice, they sacrifice to devils, and not to God; and I would not that ye should have fellowship with devils. (1 Cor. 10:20)"
    (1 Cor. 10:20)"
    "Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live. (with Exodus.22:18 )",
    "Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live. (with Exodus.22:18 )", or that "the things which the Gentiles sacrifice, they sacrifice to devils, and not to God; and I would not that ye should have fellowship with devils. (1 Cor. 10:20)"
    or that "the things which the Gentiles sacrifice, they sacrifice to devils, and not to God; and I would not that ye should have fellowship with devils. (1 Cor. 10:20)"
    "Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live. (with Exodus.22:18 )", or that "the things which the Gentiles sacrifice, they sacrifice to devils, and not to God; and I would not that ye should have fellowship with devils. (1 Cor. 10:20)"
    Last edited by Katweezel; June 3rd, 2012 at 07:07 AM.
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