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Thread: 50 Reason Why The Bible Lacks Credibility IMO

  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by shred View Post
    actually i was referring to 10 years ago when i was talking about the first time i read the bible. I was in my forties. Having the almighty prove his existence to you makes it hard to have any doubts. Even for an agnostic like i was. A spiritual experience like i had with a one on one relationship with god is something that is obviously beyond your comprehension. I was called and i am a show me skeptic so i was shown the truth. Many fundies don't believe my story because they think that god only operated like that in the old testament. I really don't care. It was for me. If i would believe any other way i am sure that is what would have happened but i am not one to believe without proof. If i was to be called there would have to be proof. There was. I died later a few times and the proof was there as well. Not just for me but for everyone that was there for me. God left his signature on my recovery for those that couldn't meet god in the afterlife and return. Maybe one day your heart and mind will be pure enough to experience it yourself. You need to lose the hate and forgive. If you are to be called you will do this whether you want to or not. If not you will continue to spew hatred and bigotry for all to gawk at. It is just as ugly as any hate spawned bigotry. The main reason i don't read your gurus is that some of them, maybe all, turned your soul black with the toxic waste of hate and bigotry. It is tragic when a spiritual leader teaches lessons that poison the body of a follower.
    i'd like to hear your testimony in more detail sometime.
    Aslan 11/1/90 - 6/15/10 Stormy 1/22/95 -8/23/10
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    In person some time Aslan. We haunt some of the same places. It would be like writing a book to post it.

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    #15 OF 50: The Bible resonates throughout with negativity.
    The word WOE appears 125 times. It's a WOEFUL book.



    Bible, King James Version 125x


    Num.21 [29] Woe to thee, Moab! thou art undone, O people of Chemosh: he hath given his sons that escaped, and his daughters, into captivity unto Sihon king of the Amorites.
    1Sam.4 [7] And the Philistines were afraid, for they said, God is come into the camp. And they said, Woe unto us! for there hath not been such a thing heretofore.

    [8] Woe unto us! who shall deliver us out of the hand of these mighty Gods? these are the Gods that smote the Egyptians with all the plagues in the wilderness.

    Job.10 [15] If I be wicked, woe unto me; and if I be righteous, yet will I not lift up my head. I am full of confusion; therefore see thou mine affliction;
    Pss.120 [5] Woe is me, that I sojourn in Mesech, that I dwell in the tents of Kedar!
    Prov.23 [29] Who hath woe? who hath sorrow? who hath contentions? who hath babbling? who hath wounds without cause? who hath redness of eyes?
    Qoh.4 [10] For if they fall, the one will lift up his fellow: but woe to him that is alone when he falleth; for he hath not another to help him up.
    Qoh.10 [16] Woe to thee, O land, when thy king is a child, and thy princes eat in the morning!
    Isa.3 [9] The shew of their countenance doth witness against them; and they declare their sin as Sodom, they hide it not. Woe unto their soul! for they have rewarded evil unto themselves.

    [11] Woe unto the wicked! it shall be ill with him: for the reward of his hands shall be given him.

    Isa.5 [8] Woe unto them that join house to house, that lay field to field, till there be no place, that they may be placed alone in the midst of the earth!
    [11] Woe unto them that rise up early in the morning, that they may follow strong drink; that continue until night, till wine inflame them!
    [18] Woe unto them that draw iniquity with cords of vanity, and sin as it were with a cart rope:
    [20] Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!

    [21] Woe unto them that are wise in their own eyes, and prudent in their own sight!
    [22] Woe unto them that are mighty to drink wine, and men of strength to mingle strong drink:

    Isa.6 [5] Then said I, Woe is me! for I am undone; because I am a man of unclean lips, and I dwell in the midst of a people of unclean lips: for mine eyes have seen the King, the LORD of hosts.
    Isa.10 [1] Woe unto them that decree unrighteous decrees, and that write grievousness which they have prescribed;
    Isa.17 [12] Woe to the multitude of many people, which make a noise like the noise of the seas; and to the rushing of nations, that make a rushing like the rushing of mighty waters!


    Isa.18 [1] Woe to the land shadowing with wings, which is beyond the rivers of Ethiopia:
    Isa.24 [16] From the uttermost part of the earth have we heard songs, even glory to the righteous. But I said, My leanness, my leanness, woe unto me! the treacherous dealers have dealt treacherously; yea, the treacherous dealers have dealt very treacherously.
    Isa.28 [1] Woe to the crown of pride, to the drunkards of Ephraim, whose glorious beauty is a fading flower, which are on the head of the fat valleys of them that are overcome with wine!


    Isa.29 [1] Woe to Ariel, to Ariel, the city where David dwelt! add ye year to year; let them kill sacrifices.
    [15] Woe unto them that seek deep to hide their counsel from the LORD, and their works are in the dark, and they say, Who seeth us? and who knoweth us?
    Isa.30 [1] Woe to the rebellious children, saith the LORD, that take counsel, but not of me; and that cover with a covering, but not of my spirit, that they may add sin to sin:
    Isa.31 [1] Woe to them that go down to Egypt for help; and stay on horses, and trust in chariots, because they are many; and in horsemen, because they are very strong; but they look not unto the Holy One of Israel, neither seek the LORD!
    Isa.33 [1] Woe to thee that spoilest, and thou wast not spoiled; and dealest treacherously, and they dealt not treacherously with thee! when thou shalt cease to spoil, thou shalt be spoiled; and when thou shalt make an end to deal treacherously, they shall deal treacherously with thee.
    Isa.45 [9] Woe unto him that striveth with his Maker! Let the potsherd strive with the potsherds of the earth. Shall the clay say to him that fashioneth it, What makest thou? or thy work, He hath no hands?
    [10] Woe unto him that saith unto his father, What begettest thou? or to the woman, What hast thou brought forth?
    Jer.4 [13] Behold, he shall come up as clouds, and his chariots shall be as a whirlwind: his horses are swifter than eagles. Woe unto us! for we are spoiled.

    [31] For I have heard a voice as of a woman in travail, and the anguish as of her that bringeth forth her first child, the voice of the daughter of Zion, that bewaileth herself, that spreadeth her hands, saying, Woe is me now! for my soul is wearied because of murderers.

    Jer.6 [4] Prepare ye war against her; arise, and let us go up at noon. Woe unto us! for the day goeth away, for the shadows of the evening are stretched out.
    Jer.10 [19] Woe is me for my hurt! my wound is grievous: but I said, Truly this is a grief, and I must bear it.
    Jer.13 [27] I have seen thine adulteries, and thy neighings, the lewdness of thy whoredom, and thine abominations on the hills in the fields. Woe unto thee, O Jerusalem! wilt thou not be made clean? when shall it once be?
    Jer.15 [10] Woe is me, my mother, that thou hast borne me a man of strife and a man of contention to the whole earth! I have neither lent on usury, nor men have lent to me on usury; yet every one of them doth curse me.
    Jer.17 [16] As for me, I have not hastened from being a pastor to follow thee: neither have I desired the woeful day; thou knowest: that which came out of my lips was right before thee.


    Jer.22 [13] Woe unto him that buildeth his house by unrighteousness, and his chambers by wrong; that useth his neighbour's service without wages, and giveth him not for his work;
    Jer.23 [1] Woe be unto the pastors that destroy and scatter the sheep of my pasture! saith the LORD.
    Jer.45 [3] Thou didst say, Woe is me now! for the LORD hath added grief to my sorrow; I fainted in my sighing, and I find no rest.
    Jer.48 [1] Against Moab thus saith the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel; Woe unto Nebo! for it is spoiled: Kiriathaim is confounded and taken: Misgab is confounded and dismayed.

    [46] Woe be unto thee, O Moab! the people of Chemosh perisheth: for thy sons are taken captives, and thy daughters captives.

    Jer.50 [27] Slay all her bullocks; let them go down to the slaughter: woe unto them! for their day is come, the time of their visitation.
    Lam.5 [16] The crown is fallen from our head: woe unto us, that we have sinned!
    Ezek.2 [10] And he spread it before me; and it was written within and without: and there was written therein lamentations, and mourning, and woe.
    Ezek.13 [3] Thus saith the Lord GOD; Woe unto the foolish prophets, that follow their own spirit, and have seen nothing!
    [18] And say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Woe to the women that sew pillows to all armholes, and make kerchiefs upon the head of every stature to hunt souls! Will ye hunt the souls of my people, and will ye save the souls alive that come unto you?
    Ezek.16 [23] And it came to pass after all thy wickedness, (woe, woe unto thee! saith the Lord GOD


    Ezek.24 [6] Wherefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Woe to the bloody city, to the pot whose scum is therein, and whose scum is not gone out of it! bring it out piece by piece; let no lot fall up on it.
    [9] Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Woe to the bloody city! I will even make the pile for fire great.
    Ezek.30 [2] Son of man, prophesy and say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Howl ye, Woe worth the day
    Ezek.34 [2] Son of man, prophesy against the shepherds of Israel, prophesy, and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD unto the shepherds; Woe be to the shepherds of Israel that do feed themselves! should not the shepherds feed the flocks?
    Hos.7 [13] Woe unto them! for they have fled from me: destruction unto them! because they have transgressed against me: though I have redeemed them, yet they have spoken lies against me.


    Hos.9 [12] Though they bring up their children, yet will I bereave them, that there shall not be a man left: yea, woe also to them when I depart from them!
    Amos.5 [18] Woe unto you that desire the day of the LORD! to what end is it for you? the day of the LORD is darkness, and not light.
    Amos.6 [1] Woe to them that are at ease in Zion, and trust in the mountain of Samaria, which are named chief of the nations, to whom the house of Israel came!
    Mic.2 [1] Woe to them that devise iniquity, and work evil upon their beds! when the morning is light, they practise it, because it is in the power of their hand.
    Mic.7 [1] Woe is me! for I am as when they have gathered the summer fruits, as the grapegleanings of the vintage: there is no cluster to eat: my soul desired the firstripe fruit.
    Nah.3 [1] Woe to the bloody city! it is all full of lies and robbery; the prey departeth not;
    Hab.2 [6] Shall not all these take up a parable against him, and a taunting proverb against him, and say, Woe to him that increaseth that which is not his! how long? and to him that ladeth himself with thick clay!
    [9] Woe to him that coveteth an evil covetousness to his house, that he may set his nest on high, that he may be delivered from the power of evil!
    [12] Woe to him that buildeth a town with blood, and stablisheth a city by iniquity!
    [15] Woe unto him that giveth his neighbour drink, that puttest thy bottle to him, and makest him drunken also, that thou mayest look on their nakedness!

    [19] Woe unto him that saith to the wood, Awake; to the dumb stone, Arise, it shall teach! Behold, it is laid over with gold and silver, and there is no breath at all in the midst of it.

    Zeph.2 [5] Woe unto the inhabitants of the sea coast, the nation of the Cherethites! the word of the LORD is against you; O Canaan, the land of the Philistines, I will even destroy thee, that there shall be no inhabitant.
    Zeph.3 [1] Woe to her that is filthy and polluted, to the oppressing city!
    Zech.11 [17] Woe to the idol shepherd that leaveth the flock! the sword shall be upon his arm, and upon his right eye: his arm shall be clean dried up, and his right eye shall be utterly darkened.


    4Ezra.2 [8] Woe be unto thee, Assur, thou that hidest the unrighteous in thee! O thou wicked people, remember what I did unto Sodom and Gomorrha;
    4Ezra.13 [16] For as I conceive in mine understanding, woe unto them that shall be left in those days and much more woe unto them that are not left behind!
    4Ezra.15 [14] Woe to the world and them that dwell therein!

    [24] Woe to them that sin, and keep not my commandments! saith the Lord.
    [47] Woe be unto thee, thou wretch, because thou hast made thyself like unto her; and hast decked thy daughters in whoredom, that they might please and glory in thy lovers, which have always desired to commit whoredom with thee.

    4Ezra.16 [1] Woe be unto thee, Babylon, and Asia! woe be unto thee, Egypt and Syria!
    [17] Woe is me! woe is me! who will deliver me in those days?

    [77] Woe be unto them that are bound with their sins, and covered with their iniquities like as a field is covered over with bushes, and the path thereof covered with thorns, that no man may travel through!

    Jdt.16 [17] Woe to the nations that rise up against my kindred! the Lord Almighty will take vengeance of them in the day of judgment, in putting fire and worms in their flesh; and they shall feel them, and weep for ever.
    Sir.2 [12] Woe be to fearful hearts, and faint hands, and the sinner that goeth two ways!
    [13] Woe unto him that is fainthearted! for he believeth not; therefore shall he not be defended.

    [14] Woe unto you that have lost patience! and what will ye do when the Lord shall visit you?

    Sir.41 [8] Woe be unto you, ungodly men, which have forsaken the law of the most high God! for if ye increase, it shall be to your destruction:
    1Mac.2 [7] He said, Woe is me! wherefore was I born to see this misery of my people, and of the holy city, and to dwell there, when it was delivered into the hand of the enemy, and the sanctuary into the hand of strangers?
    Matt.11 [21] Woe unto thee, Chorazin! woe unto thee, Bethsaida! for if the mighty works, which were done in you, had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes.


    Matt.18 [7] Woe unto the world because of offences! for it must needs be that offences come; but woe to that man by whom the offence cometh!
    Matt.23 [13] But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.
    [14] Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation.

    [15] Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.
    [16] Woe unto you, ye blind guides, which say, Whosoever shall swear by the temple, it is nothing; but whosoever shall swear by the gold of the temple, he is a debtor!
    [23] Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.
    [25] Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess.

    [27] Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness.
    [29] Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous,

    Matt.24 [19] And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
    Matt.26 [24] The Son of man goeth as it is written of him: but woe unto that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed! it had been good for that man if he had not been born.


    Mark.13 [17] But woe to them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
    Mark.14 [21] The Son of man indeed goeth, as it is written of him: but woe to that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed! good were it for that man if he had never been born.
    Luke.6 [24] But woe unto you that are rich! for ye have received your consolation.
    [25] Woe unto you that are full! for ye shall hunger. Woe unto you that laugh now! for ye shall mourn and weep.
    [26] Woe unto you, when all men shall speak well of you! for so did their fathers to the false prophets.
    Luke.10 [13] Woe unto thee, Chorazin! woe unto thee, Bethsaida! for if the mighty works had been done in Tyre and Sidon, which have been done in you, they had a great while ago repented, sitting in sackcloth and ashes.
    Luke.11 [42] But woe unto you, Pharisees! for ye tithe mint and rue and all manner of herbs, and pass over judgment and the love of God: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.
    [43] Woe unto you, Pharisees! for ye love the uppermost seats in the synagogues, and greetings in the markets.
    [44] Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are as graves which appear not, and the men that walk over them are not aware of them.

    [46] And he said, Woe unto you also, ye lawyers! for ye lade men with burdens grievous to be borne, and ye yourselves touch not the burdens with one of your fingers.
    [47] Woe unto you! for ye build the sepulchres of the prophets, and your fathers killed them.
    [52] Woe unto you, lawyers! for ye have taken away the key of knowledge: ye entered not in yourselves, and them that were entering in ye hindered.

    Luke.17 [1] Then said he unto the disciples, It is impossible but that offences will come: but woe unto him, through whom they come!
    Luke.21 [23] But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people.
    Luke.22 [22] And truly the Son of man goeth, as it was determined: but woe unto that man by whom he is betrayed!
    1Cor.9 [16] For though I preach the gospel, I have nothing to glory of: for necessity is laid upon me; yea, woe is unto me, if I preach not the gospel!
    Jude.1 [11] Woe unto them! for they have gone in the way of Cain, and ran greedily after the error of Balaam for reward, and perished in the gainsaying of Core.


    Rev.8 [13] And I beheld, and heard an angel flying through the midst of heaven, saying with a loud voice, Woe, woe, woe, to the inhabiters of the earth by reason of the other voices of the trumpet of the three angels, which are yet to sound!
    Rev.9 [12] One woe is past; and, behold, there come two woes more hereafter.


    Rev.11 [14] The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.
    Rev.12 [12] Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.



    Read more: http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_many_times_is_the_word_'woe'_used_in_the_Bible #ixzz1vAOhJ4HC
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    Oy is an interjection of grief and despair. They chose woe in the translation. I am not sure what your point is here. Would you prefer another word. 125 uses in the whole Bible does not seem like much at all. I would have thought there were more.

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    Quote Originally Posted by shred View Post
    Oy is an interjection of grief and despair. They chose woe in the translation. I am not sure what your point is here. Would you prefer another word. 125 uses in the whole Bible does not seem like much at all. I would have thought there were more.
    I guess I have to spell it out for you. The BIBLE IS JAM-PACKED FULL OF NEGATIVITY FROM START TO FINISH. There. Get it? Got it? Good. OY VEY.

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    Now who is negative. Never mind you are the most negative person on the sight so it is par for the course. Telling people they should do the right thing so they don't damage themselves is not negative. It is the cornerstone of holistic/alternate medicine. Hate and doing what you know is wrong will cause your body to attack itself and cause all kinds of problems. Some people still haven't figured the basic truth of life out yet.

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    #16 of 50... The Bible is REPULSIVE ... Here's why. (Apart from the previous 15)

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    The New Testament talks about the issue of which day is the Sabbath Day. It 's conclusion is that the important thing is that each individual keeps one day each week as a day of rest on which he will not work. It never says which day. Anyone that has studied the Bible knows this. If the video maker studied the Bible as he would like us to believe he knows this as well. Yet he intensionally tries to subvert the meaning by intentionally misleading the ignorant. This shows a blatant agenda by this film maker and costs him any credibility as an impartial authority. Everything he puts forth follows this same pattern. Ignore the true meaning of the whole to mislead and lie to anyone too dumb to think for themselves and do their own research. Sheep are so easily led. By acting like society as a whole must pick a day that all must follow is not what Christianity teaches. Those who work a seven day week are in violation of the day of rest. Maybe some Christians do but we are all sinners and therefore need grace. This is something everyone agrees upon. I have to work seven days a week every now and then. I do my best not too but if my animal falls in a pit on the Sabbath I will work to save it. Christ pointed this out to those who felt he was in violation of the Sabbath. This was a subject he spoke of numerous times to the hypocrites that tried to make the Sabbath Day the way the film maker tries to. It violates the spirit of the Sabbath. If you must do work on the Sabbath celebrate it on a different day that week. Some work is actually honors the Sabbath. Christians often spend the Sabbath helping the needy. They don't feel work violates the Sabbath although the hypocrites would.

    I didn't watch the rest of the video. People that ignore basic premises of the New Testament to mislead people about Christianity are not worth listening to.
    Last edited by Lady Tthree; May 20th, 2012 at 08:59 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by aslan View Post
    Like 3D movies, you need to wear special glasses to view it properly. The glasses are handed out by the movie maker, but he reserves the right to give them to whomever he wants. Ask him and I'm sure he will give you a pair. Otherwise you just won't get it.
    Get a pair, Katweez, I dare you! The world will never be the same.
    "The dogs bark but the caravan moves on."
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    Quote Originally Posted by zengrifter View Post
    Get a pair, Katweez, I dare you! The world will never be the same.
    A pair of aces would be good to start with! I tried everything I could think of to get a pair like Aslan said, but alas - even tho I came close, I never got the chocolates. GWAD WEREN'T LISTENIN TO ME... Below are some glasses I tried with limited success. I WILL keep on trying. Maybe Aslan can loan me one of his God glasses.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Katweezel View Post
    A pair of aces would be good to start with! I tried everything I could think of to get a pair like Aslan said, but alas - even tho I came close, I never got the chocolates. GWAD WEREN'T LISTENIN TO ME... Below are some glasses I tried with limited success. I WILL keep on trying. Maybe Aslan can loan me one of his God glasses.

    I have been trying to find you a pair that will not break when your head is up your Arsenic and Old Lace was a very fine movie, don't you think? on your pillow when you recline to read. This computer is getting jumbled up. things all
    Aslan 11/1/90 - 6/15/10 Stormy 1/22/95 -8/23/10
    “There are not one hundred people in the United States who hate The Catholic Church,
    but there are millions who hate what they wrongly perceive the Catholic Church to be.”
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    Ah, now its working. The trouble is you can try all you want but it is not in your power to see. I wish I could help you, but I cant. But I know one thing, you will get your chance if you really want it, but seeing your happy the way you are, you have no reason to want to, so dont worry about it. Its not for you.
    Aslan 11/1/90 - 6/15/10 Stormy 1/22/95 -8/23/10
    “There are not one hundred people in the United States who hate The Catholic Church,
    but there are millions who hate what they wrongly perceive the Catholic Church to be.”
    Bishop Fulton J. Sheen

    “It takes a very long time to become young.” Pablo Picasso

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    Quote Originally Posted by aslan View Post
    Ah, now its working. The trouble is you can try all you want but it is not in your power to see. I wish I could help you, but I cant. But I know one thing, you will get your chance if you really want it, but seeing your happy the way you are, you have no reason to want to, so dont worry about it. Its not for you.
    Well would U bleeve, meh puter gone wonk. I C U wank wonk>>> wot say not bunkum bunk///hoi polloi Mo... @ how cheeses slide up down side way < Y U no chonk?? Slorry NIL Mo. Soon bok choi U reddy NO Thanx TinyTim no worry ok shot
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    #17 of 50... Many of the alleged biblical teachings of Jesus are ludicrous. Take for example Jesus on family values. From Beyond Belief p 297

    "Families
    Throughout his life Jesus had little time for families if we are to believe the gospels. At the age of 12 he failed to return home with his family from the Passover feast at Jerusalem. He was found in the Jerusalem Temple three days later by his sorrowing parents, who had returned from Nazareth to look for him (Luke 2:42-8) - not very thoughtful behaviour on the part of the Son of God toward his mother one might think.

    Jesus was routinely dismissive of his mother and her feelings. Mariologists have long been embarrassed by the way he spoke to her, for example 'Woman, what have I to do with thee?' (John 2:4). The usual explanation is that translators unwittingly introduced an element of curtness, but this is simply not true. In any case, Jesus rejected his family more than once. When they asked for him when he was addressing a multitude, he denied his mother and brothers, and said that those listening to him at the time were his mother and brothers (Mark 3:31-5) cf. Mathew 12:46-9 and Luke 8:19-21).

    As the gospels clearly state, Jesus had no qualms about taking his disciples away from their families. The brothers James and John abandoned their father, leaving him to manage as best he could with the fishing nets they had been preparing. Jesus gave a clear instruction that his followers should 'call no man your father upon the earth' on the grounds that they had only one father and that was the one in Heaven (Matthew 23:9). According to some, Peter abandoned his wife and family to follow Jesus. One one occasion a disciple asked permission to go and bury his dead father:

    But Jesus said unto him, Follow me; and let the dead bury their dead. (Matthew 8:22 cf. Luke 9:60).

    Jesus then refused another potential follower who asked permission to say goodbye to his family before abandoning them (Luke 9:61-2). We learn that this attitude was entirely in line with Jesus' purpose:

    For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and he daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law. (Matthew 10:35).

    Jesus consistently taught that his followers should abandon and despise their families. Everlasting life is promised to those who leave their present homes and families (Matthew 19:29), Mark 10:29-30 and Luke 18:29-30). The Luke author gives Jesus' summary of his views on family life:

    If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple. (Luke 14:26).

    A similar sentiment is expressed in the non-canonical Gospel of St Thomas. Indeed, this gospel goes further:
    'Whoever recognizes his father and mother will be called the son of a whore.'

    The Church's traditional attitude towards family life has been consistent with Jesus' views until recent times. The pinnacle of achievement was to remain a virgin and so not have a family at all. Converts were expected to abandon their families if their families declined to become Christians as well. Polygamists were required to abandon all but one wife. Priests were required to abandon their wives and families, just as the apostles and early Church Fathers had done. St Alexis won his sainthood by abandoning his new bride on his wedding day. Christianity was responsible for an untold number of abandoned wives, divided families, and disinherited children. Later we will revisit this subject, but for the moment the key point is that in the last few decades it has become fashionable to support family values.

    Since the 1960s the Churches have found it expedient to portray themselves in exactly the opposite light to that in which they have traditionally basked. As a leading liberal churchman has noted:

    The idealization of the family is a modern cultural creation, which the Churches have validated, and now no modern bishop would dream of publicly endorsing Jesus' views about the family.

    Once again the Church has reversed its traditional teaching to agree with modern opinion. Much creative imagination now goes into the pretence that the gospels do not mean what they plainly say: that followers of Jesus must hate their families. Except for a few men and women who do abandon their familes to be become hermits, anchorites, missionaries, Roman Catholic priests, monks or nuns, there are virtually no Christians who follow Jesus' teaching about family life.

    Food and Clothing

    Jesus said that his followers did not need to work. God, knowing their needs, would clothe and feed them (Matthew 6:25-32 and Luke12:22-30). In view of the thousands of Christians who die of exposure and starvation every year, a non-believer might be sceptical about this, but Christians do not have the option of scepticism. The overwhelming majority wilfully defy the words of Jesus by working to provide for themselves and their families." (Thanks to James McDonald)

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    Dogma schmogma

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