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Thread: My religious beliefs or lack thereof

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    Default My religious beliefs or lack thereof

    Back when I was about 10 years old I had a paper route. Me and a few other guys would meet up at about 4:30-5 AM and load up our bikes to go deliver papers. I made friends with one of the guys that also had a paper route, Wayne... that's how we met.

    Up to this point in my life I had been raised completely devoid of religion in any form although I was a 4.0 student and had literary and math skills beyond anyone else my age due to intense additional studies at home via my mother. I was invited to go to church with my friend Wayne and his family one day so I took them up on it. It was a southern Baptist church and oh BOY could I tell these people were heavy duty into this stuff! By about the 2nd or 3rd week of going with them, the Pastor gave the ol' "Fire and brimstone burning in hell you vile sinner" speech! He gave a graphic lecture in which he described hell as a physical place (under evil Satan's leadership) and described it well enough that you would have thought he had gotten the guided tour of the place! He went on for about an hour or two and went into great details of Heaven, Hell, the pitfalls of hell, etc., etc. He topped it off with how if you just play your cards right, when you croak, you go to this other place that is the EXACT opposite of hell where all is wonderful and you get to hang out and have tea and crumpets with Jesus, etc., etc....

    I was alarmed, devastated even! How had I not heard about all this before now if it was all so critical!!!! I went to my mother, just about crying and asked about this whole thing. She instructed me to not believe everything I hear at face value and to study extensively on my own, making an objective evaluation rather than being coerced into any belief system. Still quite alarmed, I read the bible and studied various religious outlooks for some years to try to come up with conclusions. The more I read and evaluated in detail, the more I came to realize that a whole lot of this just didn't add up and make sense and there was much that was either open to interpretations or flat out falsehoods that didn't pan out. There were also "differing views" of various religions that completely contradicted one another. Eventually and not without intense studies on the subject, I ended up going with the idea of religion as being "War and genocide throughout recorded history based on differing imaginary friends".

    At this point in time all these years later, scientific studies and exploration, physical evidence, forensic evidence and empirical data all seem to show that the bible was written by mere mortal human beings who put together this book based on their very limited understanding of the universe around them at that period in history.

    Organized religion even went out of their way to stifle and hold back scientific studies and advancement for as long as they possibly could for they feared it would undermine them or disprove them! When Galileo said, "Uhmm, gee guys... it really looks like earth is not the center of the universe and that it's a planet not unlike the other planets that orbit the sun" and put this in writing, he was immediately put under house arrest and told that if he did not retract his statement, he would be imprisoned, tortured or put to death for "Crimes against God"!

    There were others, why just look up Hypatia of ancient Alexandria. She was a scholar, a mathematician and worse yet a WOMAN scholar whom the early Christian movement (around 400 AD) saw as a threat so she was brutally killed by a mob run by a guy who was later named a SAINT!hahaha PRAISE JESUS! Scientific advancement was seen as a threat to the absolute power that organized religion had at the time for fear it may come up with findings that would undermine them, so they dealt with these threats severely.


    Now we know. The earth is not the center of the universe. As a matter of fact our entire solar system is but a tiny speck among billions of other stars and solar systems on the outskirts of one galaxy. Our one galaxy is but another tiny speck in a sea of galaxies, hundreds of billions of them! Our entire solar system is about 4.6 billion years old in a universe that is estimated to be over 14 billion years old. Not only is none of this information in the bible (as it would have been if God himself had a hand in writing this book, I mean, why would he leave this stuff out, right?) but the bible's account for the "beginnings" are completely different from what we now know for a fact to be true derived by scientific method rather than myth and superstition. No, the bible was obviously written by mortal human beings without any help from "divinity" because it lays things out in accordance with what man's concepts and levels of understanding of the world around us were at the time. If God himself had truly "inspired" what was written in the bible his knowledge base of the universe would have provided information that went beyond the very limited understanding of the universe that humans had at the time. If God created the universe specifically for man whom he created in his image, then what the heck is all that extra real estate for?

    What if man's archaic beliefs that we humans are the sole "masters of the universe" since we have a "soul" and we were created in the image of a divinity by a divinity are completely false? What if other life forms are relatively prolific throughout the universe as the staggering mathematical logic of it all would dictate? We have proven that the "building blocks of life" are in fact free floating in space from analysis of meteorological specimens. In our solar system it took 4.6 billion years to come up with a (somewhat) technologically advanced species (us)... but other places in the universe has had a considerable head start on us, leaving lots of options for other intelligent life in the universe. It becomes pretty clear that all is not what it seems or what is depicted in the bible and in the rhetoric of religion.

    Let's take a moment to step away from the logical factors and the scientific evidence factors that all add to up an overwhelming result and take a hard look at the geographical and common sense factor!


    Interestingly enough, back in biblical times a particular geographical region, namely Europe and the Middle East, only knew Christianity. If almighty Jesus who was the son of God and could do miracles and had God backing him up with all this, why weren't they able to reach the Americas, where Native Americans had no knowledge of Jesus, had never read a bible had no concept of God in the manner that the Christians did? How about Australia who had only the aborigines for a very long time before any whites ever came there? Nope... they never heard about Jesus until a white man came ashore waving a bible around at them! The truth is that many of these people had never seen a white man or some of the more advanced technology they had (at least compared to their own); They were unlike anything these people had ever seen or known of and some of these people even thought the white man WAS some sort of God THEMSELVES (at first)! They got their rude awakening once they got fully indoctrinated in Jesus... and then conquered.

    Communication capabilities of God and Jesus should be miraculous and all that, correct? If Christianity was a man-made thing it would be limited to the geographical regions it could be spread to that were in contact with each other (often by force by the way, get in with Jesus or die by our hand because we are in good with Jesus).

    Now if God and Jesus handled it all, well that's different! All the people's of the world would have had Jesus and God show up to them all about the same time as the capabilities of such miracle-performing beings could EASILY do, right? How could the internet, twitter and Facebook today have more communications capability worldwide than God and Jesus did back then, right?

    · Christianity spread by word of mouth, by a movement that gathered steam as it went. It essentially started as a small cult and grew, spreading rather quickly because to not convert to Christianity back in those days (or to whatever "powers that be") often meant bad things were going to happen to you! God and Jesus did not kill you for not going with the whole Jesus plan... mortal humans did as they were "doing God's work". The expansion of Christianity was however limited to the geographical regions it could spread to easily enough via the conventional means of mortal humans at the time.

    After white Europeans started coming to the new world, the Americas they pushed it hard there also--- Why hadn't Jesus and God have already BEEN to the Americas and told Native Americans all about Jesus though????

    That is unless you want to go with some of Joseph Smith's little twists on it all because he proclaimed the garden of Eden was actually in Missouri and that God himself told him that! This only adds to the contradiction factor though... and we are sticking with the common sense angle on this.

    Common sense tells us that obviously Facebook, Twitter, Satellite TV and modern communications mediums work much more efficiently than God and Jesus did "back in the day", which is odd because you wouldn't think that God and Jesus, who created and run the entire universe would have geographical obstacles in communications on one tiny little planet and that is something only mere mortal humans would find an obstacle during these time periods!


    The truth is that geographical separations of humanity allowed for completely different belief systems to form in geographical regions isolated from one another that were completely foreign to each other. Man's curiosity and trying to make sense of the world around him, explain elements of nature in the world around him led to many varied unfounded, unproven theories that became bona fide religions over time, all with supernatural, mythical qualities about them because they lacked rational or scientific explanations of the world around them.


    Had I written this publicly just a few hundred years ago, I would have been burned at the stake.
    Last edited by Tarzan; August 19th, 2011 at 01:38 PM.

  2. #2

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tarzan View Post
    Interestingly enough, back in biblical times a particular geographical region, namely Europe and the Middle East, only knew Christianity. If almighty Jesus who was the son of God and could do miracles and had God backing him up with all this, why weren't they able to reach the Americas, where Native Americans had no knowledge of Jesus, had never read a bible had no concept of God in the manner that the Christians did? How about Australia who had only the aborigines for a very long time before any whites ever came there? Nope... they never heard about Jesus until a white man came ashore waving a bible around at them!

    Oh ye Tarzan of little faith. Issa (aka Yeshua, Jesus, Immanuel) not
    only made it to the Americas, but also Egypt, India, and Japan >>

    Jesus in India and Japan

    Last edited by zengrifter; August 21st, 2011 at 12:33 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by zengrifter View Post
    Oh ye Tarzan of little faith. Issa (aka Yeshua, Jesus, Immanuel) not
    only made it to the Americas, but also Egypt, India, and Japan >>

    Jesus in India and Japan
    Oh ye Zengrifter of over-abundant faith. So Jesus made it to India and Japan, huh? By camel I guess. WTF? You mean to say Jesus ignored China, Burma, Bangladesh, Thailand, Cambodia, Vietnam, Laos, Taiwan and god knows who else? Double WTF? Are you suggesting Jesus was a dork? I mean WHY did he apparently ignore all those... AND Indonesia, Papua New Guinea and AUSTRALIA? Frankly, I reckon - like the christians and jews - you made it all up.
    Dogma schmogma

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tarzan View Post
    Back when I was about 10 years old I had a paper route. Me and a few other guys would meet up at about 4:30-5 AM and load up our bikes to go deliver papers. I made friends with one of the guys that also had a paper route, Wayne... that's how we met.

    Up to this point in my life I had been raised completely devoid of religion in any form although I was a 4.0 student and had literary and math skills beyond anyone else my age due to intense additional studies at home via my mother. I was invited to go to church with my friend Wayne and his family one day so I took them up on it. It was a southern Baptist church and oh BOY could I tell these people were heavy duty into this stuff! By about the 2nd or 3rd week of going with them, the Pastor gave the ol' "Fire and brimstone burning in hell you vile sinner" speech! He gave a graphic lecture in which he described hell as a physical place (under evil Satan's leadership) and described it well enough that you would have thought he had gotten the guided tour of the place! He went on for about an hour or two and went into great details of Heaven, Hell, the pitfalls of hell, etc., etc. He topped it off with how if you just play your cards right, when you croak, you go to this other place that is the EXACT opposite of hell where all is wonderful and you get to hang out and have tea and crumpets with Jesus, etc., etc....

    I was alarmed, devastated even! How had I not heard about all this before now if it was all so critical!!!! I went to my mother, just about crying and asked about this whole thing. She instructed me to not believe everything I hear at face value and to study extensively on my own, making an objective evaluation rather than being coerced into any belief system. Still quite alarmed, I read the bible and studied various religious outlooks for some years to try to come up with conclusions. The more I read and evaluated in detail, the more I came to realize that a whole lot of this just didn't add up and make sense and there was much that was either open to interpretations or flat out falsehoods that didn't pan out. There were also "differing views" of various religions that completely contradicted one another. Eventually and not without intense studies on the subject, I ended up going with the idea of religion as being "War and genocide throughout recorded history based on differing imaginary friends".

    At this point in time all these years later, scientific studies and exploration, physical evidence, forensic evidence and empirical data all seem to show that the bible was written by mere mortal human beings who put together this book based on their very limited understanding of the universe around them at that period in history.

    Organized religion even went out of their way to stifle and hold back scientific studies and advancement for as long as they possibly could for they feared it would undermine them or disprove them! When Galileo said, "Uhmm, gee guys... it really looks like earth is not the center of the universe and that it's a planet not unlike the other planets that orbit the sun" and put this in writing, he was immediately put under house arrest and told that if he did not retract his statement, he would be imprisoned, tortured or put to death for "Crimes against God"!

    There were others, why just look up Hypatia of ancient Alexandria. She was a scholar, a mathematician and worse yet a WOMAN scholar whom the early Christian movement (around 400 AD) saw as a threat so she was brutally killed by a mob run by a guy who was later named a SAINT!hahaha PRAISE JESUS! Scientific advancement was seen as a threat to the absolute power that organized religion had at the time for fear it may come up with findings that would undermine them, so they dealt with these threats severely.


    Now we know. The earth is not the center of the universe. As a matter of fact our entire solar system is but a tiny speck among billions of other stars and solar systems on the outskirts of one galaxy. Our one galaxy is but another tiny speck in a sea of galaxies, hundreds of billions of them! Our entire solar system is about 4.6 billion years old in a universe that is estimated to be over 14 billion years old. Not only is none of this information in the bible (as it would have been if God himself had a hand in writing this book, I mean, why would he leave this stuff out, right?) but the bible's account for the "beginnings" are completely different from what we now know for a fact to be true derived by scientific method rather than myth and superstition. No, the bible was obviously written by mortal human beings without any help from "divinity" because it lays things out in accordance with what man's concepts and levels of understanding of the world around us were at the time. If God himself had truly "inspired" what was written in the bible his knowledge base of the universe would have provided information that went beyond the very limited understanding of the universe that humans had at the time. If God created the universe specifically for man whom he created in his image, then what the heck is all that extra real estate for?

    What if man's archaic beliefs that we humans are the sole "masters of the universe" since we have a "soul" and we were created in the image of a divinity by a divinity are completely false? What if other life forms are relatively prolific throughout the universe as the staggering mathematical logic of it all would dictate? We have proven that the "building blocks of life" are in fact free floating in space from analysis of meteorological specimens. In our solar system it took 4.6 billion years to come up with a (somewhat) technologically advanced species (us)... but other places in the universe has had a considerable head start on us, leaving lots of options for other intelligent life in the universe. It becomes pretty clear that all is not what it seems or what is depicted in the bible and in the rhetoric of religion.

    Let's take a moment to step away from the logical factors and the scientific evidence factors that all add to up an overwhelming result and take a hard look at the geographical and common sense factor!


    Interestingly enough, back in biblical times a particular geographical region, namely Europe and the Middle East, only knew Christianity. If almighty Jesus who was the son of God and could do miracles and had God backing him up with all this, why weren't they able to reach the Americas, where Native Americans had no knowledge of Jesus, had never read a bible had no concept of God in the manner that the Christians did? How about Australia who had only the aborigines for a very long time before any whites ever came there? Nope... they never heard about Jesus until a white man came ashore waving a bible around at them! The truth is that many of these people had never seen a white man or some of the more advanced technology they had (at least compared to their own); They were unlike anything these people had ever seen or known of and some of these people even thought the white man WAS some sort of God THEMSELVES (at first)! They got their rude awakening once they got fully indoctrinated in Jesus... and then conquered.

    Communication capabilities of God and Jesus should be miraculous and all that, correct? If Christianity was a man-made thing it would be limited to the geographical regions it could be spread to that were in contact with each other (often by force by the way, get in with Jesus or die by our hand because we are in good with Jesus).

    Now if God and Jesus handled it all, well that's different! All the people's of the world would have had Jesus and God show up to them all about the same time as the capabilities of such miracle-performing beings could EASILY do, right? How could the internet, twitter and Facebook today have more communications capability worldwide than God and Jesus did back then, right?

    · Christianity spread by word of mouth, by a movement that gathered steam as it went. It essentially started as a small cult and grew, spreading rather quickly because to not convert to Christianity back in those days (or to whatever "powers that be") often meant bad things were going to happen to you! God and Jesus did not kill you for not going with the whole Jesus plan... mortal humans did as they were "doing God's work". The expansion of Christianity was however limited to the geographical regions it could spread to easily enough via the conventional means of mortal humans at the time.

    After white Europeans started coming to the new world, the Americas they pushed it hard there also--- Why hadn't Jesus and God have already BEEN to the Americas and told Native Americans all about Jesus though????

    That is unless you want to go with some of Joseph Smith's little twists on it all because he proclaimed the garden of Eden was actually in Missouri and that God himself told him that! This only adds to the contradiction factor though... and we are sticking with the common sense angle on this.

    Common sense tells us that obviously Facebook, Twitter, Satellite TV and modern communications mediums work much more efficiently than God and Jesus did "back in the day", which is odd because you wouldn't think that God and Jesus, who created and run the entire universe would have geographical obstacles in communications on one tiny little planet and that is something only mere mortal humans would find an obstacle during these time periods!


    The truth is that geographical separations of humanity allowed for completely different belief systems to form in geographical regions isolated from one another that were completely foreign to each other. Man's curiosity and trying to make sense of the world around him, explain elements of nature in the world around him led to many varied unfounded, unproven theories that became bona fide religions over time, all with supernatural, mythical qualities about them because they lacked rational or scientific explanations of the world around them.


    Had I written this publicly just a few hundred years ago, I would have been burned at the stake.
    Yep Tarzan, you are a dreaded, sinful heretic, a blasphemer of the worst kind, and you should have been ashes long ago. Your verdict would have been GUILTY; sentenced to death by fire (so that no blood would be spilled. That would have been after some Dominican or Franciscan priests tortured the bejesus and crap outta you.)

    I recently had the priveledge of watching a TV special on the Hubble space telescope. Wow, what a coup for science this has been. Gee it was only 400 years ago that ruling (catholic) thought said the earth was flat and did not move, because it was the centre of the universe. These (Vatican) ignoramuses decreed not only what people should think but how and why they should think the way the church ordered... or else. It amazes me this church still has over one billion follower to this day, despite the shameful past - crusades, Inquisitions, witch hunts and the evil embedded, endemic priestly pedophilia. Throw in misogny, sexism, patriarchy and a hierarchy of senior aged males and you can only conclude that female catholics must be among the world's stupidest women.

    The Hubble has raised human awareness dramatically. Science has given us new understanding of the nature of the universe; and its origin. We know more about the existence of black holes and anti-matter. We see there are 92 elements that make up the universe, and this has been proved. Everything in the universe is made up of 92 elements. Science can prove how these elements came into existence; and how they will go out of existence.

    All these new discoveries are amazing and are a real tribute to the scientists at the cutting edge. And we have only just scratched the surface.

    Of course, none of these things were mentioned in scriptures. Scriptures and religious beliefs are not worthy of mention in this science area. Primitive superstitions, myths, legends and fairytales belong in the Dark Ages. At last we have escaped the thought control of priests and witch doctors. Hooray! for science.
    Dogma schmogma

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    Tarzan for President...
    Dogma schmogma

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    Wow Tarzan. That was alot to absorb. I think you may be overthinking this just a wee bit.

    I think I'm one of the few people who finds solace in both a casino and a church. Perhaps genetics working back and forth of my Mom and my Dad.

    The one thing I get out of it all is God only asks us to do one thing. BELIEVE. Many scriptures in the Bible just seem to work. So I don't question. Everyone, except my brother, in a family of 7 have passed. So my belief they are now in a better place provides great comfort to me because I know THEY believed. Even my Dad, became a believer in his final days.

    It's not likely you will find me at a soup supper or serving soup to the homeless. But you will probably find me watching the Super Bowl on a threater screen in a casino the first Sunday in February.

    It's not easy giving control of your life to God. But it is even more difficult when HE comes and takes it.

    Quite frankly, some christians scare me far more than the worst person in a casino. They think God needs a little help and I find that dangerous. So perhaps God and I have come to an understanding? lol Not that HE needed to negotiate with little ole me. I've witnessed HIS power many times. I GET it. Therefore, I see myself as one of HIS tools used to help others.

    There are almost daily examples. But this one come to mind. Everyone in my family was very musical. I was into sports. Mom was a music teacher. It probably broke her heart when this 10 year old was more interested in the NFL games than the Thanksgiving Day parades. Then I'd run and hide when everyone performed in the afternoon talent show. I just thought that was the dumbest thing.

    So for her son to become a singer later in life after she passed might be proof God does have a sense of humor. For me, I put someone or something in my heart, then I 1 Peter 5-7 it. I'm telling ya, the voice that comes out of me is NOT mine. I just let HIM move me. Sometimes I don't like it. Other times it's very rewarding. I noticed this elderly gent would always sit up front in his wheelchair. Lou was wearing his Frank Sinatra hat and was always smiling. It was like "life had given him a lemon or two, so he made lemonade and found someone with Vodka."

    One day his son came up to me before the show and ask me if we could sing MY Way by Frank Sinatra. It was his Dads favorite song and probably the last show he would see. So about 10 minutes in I said, "Ladies and Gentlemen we have a special request" my legs starting walking off the stage and into the audience. Paul, Gina, and Haas were like "o know, what is Moses doing now"?

    I walk up to Lou and ask him if he wouldn't mind coming up on stage to sing My Way with me. "I don't know all the words and I heard you did." Lou is beaming as his son wheels him up on stage. Well, there was not a dry eye in the house, including mine. Lou received a standing O. My new friend Lou grabbed my hand and motioned for me to bend down so he could whisper in my ear. He thanked me for allowing him to sing to his son one last time. Tears now streaming down both our faces, I said, "you're welcome Lou. But I don't think it was me. I think it was "our" Father." Our eyes kind of locked and in that second, I knew he knew exactly what I meant.

    Generally, you don't find those kind of rewards at a blackjack table.
    Last edited by Moses; July 17th, 2018 at 12:15 PM.

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