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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackchipjim View Post
    I didn't take Kat's question as a door to enter into religous volley again. I felt it was a question posed to any believer asto thier understanding of the Trinity. As a matter of fact Ireland was more open to the understanding of the trinity because of prior beliefs in something similiar to their former religion. The Mind,body and Soul is a good analogy as it correlates to something our human mind can accept if we are open to inspiration.
    I'd call it more a shadowy semblance, than an analogy, but it does serve to help us view what is impossible to fully understand with our finite minds. For me, and in no way meaning to be critical of you, nothing can explain it (finitely speaking); that's why they call it a mystery. People of faith (the God-given variety) find it easy to accept; others find it impossible. What more can be said?
    Aslan 11/1/90 - 6/15/10 Stormy 1/22/95 -8/23/10
    “There are not one hundred people in the United States who hate The Catholic Church,
    but there are millions who hate what they wrongly perceive the Catholic Church to be.”
    Bishop Fulton J. Sheen

    “It takes a very long time to become young.” Pablo Picasso

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    That seems to leave us with the distinct possibility that the self-evident God used the process we call, and do not fully understand, evolution, to create the species we call homo sapiens [correct me if my biology terminology is wrong]. One problem with that is, however, many if not most biologists do not think evolution can account for the complex nature of DNA. Enter Dawkins and others with their theory of alien design. The evasionary tactic that Dawkins uses to cover up the obvious signature of God [aliens did it] simply does not hold water. How did aliens get that way? Let's look at alien DNA. Whoops! There isn't any.

    It's much easier to believe in God. And I always thought scientists went first to the easiest and simplest explanation. Apparently, not so.
    Aslan 11/1/90 - 6/15/10 Stormy 1/22/95 -8/23/10
    “There are not one hundred people in the United States who hate The Catholic Church,
    but there are millions who hate what they wrongly perceive the Catholic Church to be.”
    Bishop Fulton J. Sheen

    “It takes a very long time to become young.” Pablo Picasso

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    St AUGUSTINE & THE HOLY TRINITY



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    This triangle and cicrcle is the usual explanation we have learnt in our Catechism about The Holy Trinity. The mudras representation in Fr TR's painting is much more helpful for contemplation.We have always thought it is simply a mystery which we might understand in the next life but not this. St Augustine tried to attempt to explain the Trinity, to satisfy the scriptural directive to "seek His face evermore".
    His book "The Trinity" begins with a consideration of the Scriptural references to the Trinity, with the aim of reconciling them and explaining them through the supposition of three equal persons in one God. Augustine is at particular pains to maintain the equality of the persons: that the Son is equal to the Father, and the Holy Spirit equal to both. His approach is to use the fact that Man was created in the image of God. Given this, Augustine reasons, there should be some image of the Trinity in man. This leads to the consideration of a succession of trinities - the lover, beloved, and love; memory, understanding, and will; the objects of sense, the will to attend to them, and the sense impressions of them; etc. The trinities in man are held up not as exact analogues to that in God, but as a ladder, starting with the most carnal and rising towards the most spiritual; we do not find a single Trinity like that of God within ourselves, but we do find a series of them that we can ascend, and in ascending it we approach the divine Trinity and a deeper understanding of God.

    -from a student.
    http://bhaktiprem-bhakti.blogspot.com/
    Aslan 11/1/90 - 6/15/10 Stormy 1/22/95 -8/23/10
    “There are not one hundred people in the United States who hate The Catholic Church,
    but there are millions who hate what they wrongly perceive the Catholic Church to be.”
    Bishop Fulton J. Sheen

    “It takes a very long time to become young.” Pablo Picasso

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    It's been said that a little boy trying to empty the entire ocean into a small hole on the beach is similar to our trying to comprehend the Trinity with our finite minds.
    Aslan 11/1/90 - 6/15/10 Stormy 1/22/95 -8/23/10
    “There are not one hundred people in the United States who hate The Catholic Church,
    but there are millions who hate what they wrongly perceive the Catholic Church to be.”
    Bishop Fulton J. Sheen

    “It takes a very long time to become young.” Pablo Picasso

  5. #35
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    Saint Gregory the Theologian on Contemplating the Holy Trinity

    March 15, 2009 by Andrew


    Name:  saint_gregory_the_theologian.jpg
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    No sooner do I conceive of the One than I am illumined by the splendour of the Three; no sooner do I distinguish them than I am carried back to the One. When I think of any One of the Three, I think of Him as the whole, and my eyes are filled, and the greater part of what I am thinking of escapes me. I cannot grasp the greatness of that One so as to attribute a greater greatness to the rest. When I contemplate the Three together, I see but one torch, and cannot divide or measure out the uncreated light.
    * This excerpt is from “The Oration on Baptism” by St. Gregory the Theologia
    Aslan 11/1/90 - 6/15/10 Stormy 1/22/95 -8/23/10
    “There are not one hundred people in the United States who hate The Catholic Church,
    but there are millions who hate what they wrongly perceive the Catholic Church to be.”
    Bishop Fulton J. Sheen

    “It takes a very long time to become young.” Pablo Picasso

  6. #36
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    The mind is like a parachute. It's little more than a burden until you decide to open it.
    Only those who will risk going too far can possibly find out just how far one can go.


    We cannot direct the wind, we can only adjust our sails.

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    Quote Originally Posted by shadroch View Post
    The mind is like a parachute. It's little more than a burden until you decide to open it.
    Well said. Consider than the proposition that all your prejudices against God-given faith and the authentic Christian religious experience are erroneous. Re-open you mind and re-examine it all. Even then, continue to be open-minded. Pray that God, if He exists, will open your heart to receive His gift of faith and love. It can't hurt. At worst it will be a waste of a small amount of time. At best it may open you to a whole new outlook on and experience of life, and give you the gift of eternal life to boot.
    Aslan 11/1/90 - 6/15/10 Stormy 1/22/95 -8/23/10
    “There are not one hundred people in the United States who hate The Catholic Church,
    but there are millions who hate what they wrongly perceive the Catholic Church to be.”
    Bishop Fulton J. Sheen

    “It takes a very long time to become young.” Pablo Picasso

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by aslan View Post
    That seems to leave us with the distinct possibility that the self-evident God used the process we call, and do not fully understand, evolution, to create the species we call homo sapiens [correct me if my biology terminology is wrong]. One problem with that is, however, many if not most biologists do not think evolution can account for the complex nature of DNA. Enter Dawkins and others with their theory of alien design. The evasionary tactic that Dawkins uses to cover up the obvious signature of God [aliens did it] simply does not hold water. How did aliens get that way? Let's look at alien DNA. Whoops! There isn't any.

    It's much easier to believe in God. And I always thought scientists went first to the easiest and simplest explanation. Apparently, not so.
    You are some pathetic piece of work. First off it is a 100% false statement to say that most or even many biologists do not think that evolution can account for DNA. That is a boldfaced lie. And you totally take the Dawkins idea out of context, no surprise. It is a joke. It is meant to be as a parallel to your ridiculous notion of thinking that it has to be fact that there is a creator. You have got to be kidding me with your lack of knowledge and understanding of what is being truly discussed. Thats the problem with people like you that get your education from excerpts told from only your side of an issue. You fail to LEARN anything. You base opinion on false pretense and non evidence. Richard Dawkins and just about every biologist can explain in depth why its actually very real how DNA is a process of evolution and natural selection. Your ignorance is mind blowing!

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    Quote Originally Posted by aslan View Post
    It's been said that a little boy trying to empty the entire ocean into a small hole on the beach is similar to our trying to comprehend the Trinity with our finite minds.
    I will explain to you at least where your Trinity concept comes from. And as it seems it was not of the divine. This is from a previous post of mine, you must have skipped it as it is fact of evidence and does not bode well for your "belief".

    I can explain the Trinity easily. It was thrown in the bible in the 1600's because the christians liked it. The greek manuscripts are the earliest forms of bible documentation. Hundreds of years later it was being scribed in latin. These are whats called the Latin Vulgate manuscripts. In the earlier greek manuscripts the what later becomes the Trinity reads,"There are three that bear witness: the Spirit,the water, and the blood, and these three are one. The problem was that in later tranlastions it was changed to: There are three that bear witness in heaven: The Father, the Word, and the Spirit, and these are one; and there are three that bear witness on earth, the Spirit, the water, and the blood, and these three are one. In the early 1500's a man named Erasmus was copying the text of the bible. He was using a greek manuscript that not only did not have the Trinity as you know it in it, but did not have the last 12 verses of Mark, or the story of Jesus and the woman who was brought to him found in adultery. You know, the he has not sinned cast the first stone story. At this time there were copies of the Latin Vulgate that had come to have these passasges in them already and the church was furious when Erasmus left them out. Due to the pressure of the christian church of the time he was forced to write a new version including what was left out. Erasmus's version is what is commonly referred to as the start of what translated into the King James bible, from King James in 1611 onward up until modern day. So the Trinity is easy to explain, its the church's will to give power to that which was once non existent. The original Trinity was changed to add divinity to it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MAZ View Post
    You are some pathetic piece of work.

    I am underwhelmed by your kind and generous words.

    First off it is a 100% false statement to say that most or even many biologists do not think that evolution can account for DNA. That is a boldfaced lie. And you totally take the Dawkins idea out of context, no surprise. It is a joke. It is meant to be as a parallel to your ridiculous notion of thinking that it has to be fact that there is a creator. You have got to be kidding me with your lack of knowledge and understanding of what is being truly discussed. Thats the problem with people like you that get your education from excerpts told from only your side of an issue. You fail to LEARN anything. You base opinion on false pretense and non evidence. Richard Dawkins and just about every biologist can explain in depth why its actually very real how DNA is a process of evolution and natural selection. Your ignorance is mind blowing!
    I think that many or most biologists know that evolution is too weak a theory to explain the complexity of DNA, but their holy religion of evolution is at stake and they are hesitant to admit it. To me, that is why Dawkins can contemplate (I did not say believe in) a scenario in which aliens seeded the earth; it's his convenient future escape hatch when this is conclusively proven.
    **************************
    I'm not a scientist, but I found this piece interesting:

    At the heart of Darwin's Theory is random change and natural selection. Computer Scientists have been experimenting with "Genetic Algorithms" for a long time now, and its clear they have enormous limitations. A computer program to play chess, for example, looks several moves ahead and chooses the move that will lead to the strongest position in the future. The power of a chess playing computer is determined by the number of moves it can look ahead. Any modern computer can beat the average human chess player, but it took a massive supercomputer to beat Kasparov in 1997. As the computer looks further into the future the number of combinations it must analyse increases exponentially. Chess playing algorithms regularly make short term sacrifices for longer term goals but Genetic Algorithms can not do this because they are concerned only with the strength of the next generation. Playing Chess is only one of the many problems Genetic Algorithms can not solve. Most of the scientific resistance to evolution in the past has come from mathematicians and engineers who have complained about this problem. Biologists, on the other hand, tended to wave the theory through - but recent scientific advances in microbiology have been changing that.

    Since the discovery of DNA Biologists have been gradually learning that the basic cellular unit underlying all known life on earth is enormously complex. Far more complex than the latest Intel CPU for example. It's so highly mechanised with concepts such as hardware and software that many at the forefront of microbiology believe a genetic algorithm could not possibly have produced it. Time does not help, its technical structure, they say, simply exceeds what genetic algorithms are capable of ever producing.

    http://www.willyhoops.com/richard-dawkins-aliens.htm
    Aslan 11/1/90 - 6/15/10 Stormy 1/22/95 -8/23/10
    “There are not one hundred people in the United States who hate The Catholic Church,
    but there are millions who hate what they wrongly perceive the Catholic Church to be.”
    Bishop Fulton J. Sheen

    “It takes a very long time to become young.” Pablo Picasso

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by aslan View Post
    What is it about what you just said that thrills you? It leaves me flat. We are all one. I don't get it.

    It's like they believe that we are not what we seem to be. Everything is illusory. In reality we are all one.
    We are all One. One Spirit. Feel It. You are It.
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    Dogma schmogma

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    Quote Originally Posted by MAZ View Post
    I will explain to you at least where your Trinity concept comes from. And as it seems it was not of the divine. This is from a previous post of mine, you must have skipped it as it is fact of evidence and does not bode well for your "belief".

    I can explain the Trinity easily. It was thrown in the bible in the 1600's because the christians liked it. The greek manuscripts are the earliest forms of bible documentation. Hundreds of years later it was being scribed in latin. These are whats called the Latin Vulgate manuscripts. In the earlier greek manuscripts the what later becomes the Trinity reads,"There are three that bear witness: the Spirit,the water, and the blood, and these three are one. The problem was that in later tranlastions it was changed to: There are three that bear witness in heaven: The Father, the Word, and the Spirit, and these are one; and there are three that bear witness on earth, the Spirit, the water, and the blood, and these three are one. In the early 1500's a man named Erasmus was copying the text of the bible. He was using a greek manuscript that not only did not have the Trinity as you know it in it, but did not have the last 12 verses of Mark, or the story of Jesus and the woman who was brought to him found in adultery. You know, the he has not sinned cast the first stone story. At this time there were copies of the Latin Vulgate that had come to have these passasges in them already and the church was furious when Erasmus left them out. Due to the pressure of the christian church of the time he was forced to write a new version including what was left out. Erasmus's version is what is commonly referred to as the start of what translated into the King James bible, from King James in 1611 onward up until modern day. So the Trinity is easy to explain, its the church's will to give power to that which was once non existent. The original Trinity was changed to add divinity to it.
    You are so far out in left field on this one that you've passed three time zones! There are many allusions to the triune nature of God throughout the Bible. That the notion of Trinity depends on a gloss or two is simply ludicrous. The concept was always with the Church from earliest times.

    Also, in your former life as a non-Catholic student of the Bible you were allowed to disregard the history, teachings, and traditions of the Church, which of course does nothing to invalidate them, and they also prove the Trinity was held by the faithful from earliest times.

    "No one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and any one to whom the Son chooses to reveal him." Matt 11:27 (Two of the Persons of the Trinity)

    And I will ask the Father, and he shall give you another Paraclete [Advocate], that he may abide with you for ever. John 14:16 (The third Person of the Trinity)

    In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. John 1:1 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature. Collosians 1:15 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the figure of his substance, and upholding all things by the word of his power, making purgation of sins, sitteth on the right hand of the majesty on high. Heb 1:3 (Two of the Persons of the Trinity)

    And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost [Spirit], and they began to speak with divers tongues, according as the Holy Ghost [Spirit] gave them to speak. Acts 2:4

    In 381 AD the Spirit was declared by the second ecumenical council at Constantinople. "We believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord and giver of life, who proceeds from the Father."

    The Council of Florence in 1438 AD explained: "The Holy Spirit is eternally from Father and Son; He has his nature and subsistence at once (simul) from the Father and the Son.
    Aslan 11/1/90 - 6/15/10 Stormy 1/22/95 -8/23/10
    “There are not one hundred people in the United States who hate The Catholic Church,
    but there are millions who hate what they wrongly perceive the Catholic Church to be.”
    Bishop Fulton J. Sheen

    “It takes a very long time to become young.” Pablo Picasso

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    Quote Originally Posted by Katweezel View Post
    We are all One. One Spirit. Feel It. You are It.
    We are all One.
    I believe that we can all be one in spirit, and one "in the Spirit."

    One Spirit.
    I also believe that we can all be one in spirit with the Spirit of God.

    Feel It.
    I believe we can feel the presence of the Spirit of God.

    You are It.
    I believe we can be filled with the Spirit of God.

    While I don't believe the same tenets of faith that you do, we seem to be hitting all around each other's beliefs. lol Heretic!!
    Aslan 11/1/90 - 6/15/10 Stormy 1/22/95 -8/23/10
    “There are not one hundred people in the United States who hate The Catholic Church,
    but there are millions who hate what they wrongly perceive the Catholic Church to be.”
    Bishop Fulton J. Sheen

    “It takes a very long time to become young.” Pablo Picasso

  14. #44
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    CP would say: Great Spirit.
    Dogma schmogma

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    Quote Originally Posted by Katweezel View Post
    CP would say: Great Spirit.
    Are we allowed to have so much in common? Will someone come to get us? Name:  smiley-scared004.gif
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    Aslan 11/1/90 - 6/15/10 Stormy 1/22/95 -8/23/10
    “There are not one hundred people in the United States who hate The Catholic Church,
    but there are millions who hate what they wrongly perceive the Catholic Church to be.”
    Bishop Fulton J. Sheen

    “It takes a very long time to become young.” Pablo Picasso

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