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Thread: Muslim's Minarets are banned

  1. #1

    Default Muslim's Minarets are banned

    Swiss have banned Muslim's Minarets such as this one:




    "GENEVA — Swiss voters overwhelmingly approved a constitutional ban on minarets on Sunday, barring construction of the iconic mosque towers in a surprise vote that put Switzerland at the forefront of a European backlash against a growing Muslim population."

    http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,577668,00.html

    Hmmm--- Which religious symbols/structures will Swiss ban next?

    Budhist's Swastika?



    Jew's Star of David?



    Scientologist's Cross?


    Or the controversial KKK's burning cross?


    Or you name it that Swiss will ban!
    Last edited by Abenzio; November 30th, 2009 at 02:37 AM.

  2. #2
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    So . . . your first post in the forum of a Blackjack specific website is in a subsidiary area (set up to discuss non-BJ related issues) and having a poke at the population of a minor European nation and their decision to prohibit the building of unnecessary structures at the places of worship of what are a minority religious group in the country?

    Is this really your first post, or are you already a member having posted previously under another forum handle? I think we should be told . . . .

    For balance perhaps you'd like to pass comment on the number of traditional Christian church structures (ie churches with bell towers), or lack of them, in Saudi Arabia, Northern Sudan, the Yeman etc etc?

    Liberal the Swiss ain't, but the average voter there certainly has more opportunity to direct public policy than they do in most other European countries. One reason perhaps, why the Swiss haven't (yet) made the mistake of opting to join the EU.

  3. #3

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Abenzio View Post
    Hmmm--- Which religious symbols/structures will Swiss ban next?

    Budhist's Swastika?
    Its a shame that the Nazis desecrated the swastika, which previous to their rise and fall
    was one of the most venerated spiritual signs throughout the world, and still is, actually. zg
    Last edited by zengrifter; November 30th, 2009 at 04:57 AM.
    "The dogs bark but the caravan moves on."
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  4. #4

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Abenzio View Post
    Swiss have banned Muslim's Minarets such as this one:




    "GENEVA — Swiss voters overwhelmingly approved a constitutional ban on minarets on Sunday, barring construction of the iconic mosque towers in a surprise vote that put Switzerland at the forefront of a European backlash against a growing Muslim population."

    http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,577668,00.html

    Hmmm--- Which religious symbols/structures will Swiss ban next?

    Budhist's Swastika?



    Jew's Star of David?



    Scientologist's Cross?


    Or the controversial KKK's burning cross?


    Or you name it that Swiss will ban!
    InPlay, is that you? zg
    "The dogs bark but the caravan moves on."
    .....................The Zengrifter Interview (PDF) |
    The Zengrifter / James Grosjean Reputation Debate
    -----------------------------------------
    “Truth, like gold, is obtained not by growth, but by washing away all that is not gold.” — Leo Tolstoy........
    "Is everything a conspiracy? No, just the important stuff." ZG

  5. #5

    Lightbulb Newb99 & Zg

    Quote Originally Posted by newb99 View Post
    So . . . your first post in the forum of a Blackjack specific website is in a subsidiary area (set up to discuss non-BJ related issues) and having a poke at the population of a minor European nation and their decision to prohibit the building of unnecessary structures at the places of worship of what are a minority religious group in the country?

    Is this really your first post, or are you already a member having posted previously under another forum handle? I think we should be told . . . .

    For balance perhaps you'd like to pass comment on the number of traditional Christian church structures (ie churches with bell towers), or lack of them, in Saudi Arabia, Northern Sudan, the Yeman etc etc?

    Liberal the Swiss ain't, but the average voter there certainly has more opportunity to direct public policy than they do in most other European countries. One reason perhaps, why the Swiss haven't (yet) made the mistake of opting to join the EU.

    Bell towel? You're right. Both minaret and towel are used for religious reasons. To be fair, Swiss must ban bell towels too...???

    Quote Originally Posted by zengrifter View Post
    InPlay, is that you? zg
    Negative. Why did Ken ban InPlay who had been a prolific contributor with a few thousand posts?

    Quote Originally Posted by zengrifter View Post
    Its a shame that the Nazis desecrated the swastika, which previous to their rise and fall
    was one of the most venerated spiritual signs throughout the world, and still is, actually. zg
    Agree. It's a damn shame, especially I found this:

    "1925 Native American "good fortune" (swastika symbol) quilt. Hidden in storage 70 years because of the Nazi Party's use of the swastika."



  6. #6
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Abenzio View Post
    . . .To be fair, Swiss must ban bell towels too...???
    Says who? Bell towers are a traditional feature of churches and Christian places of worship in many European countries - where Christianity is the official, and majority, faith practiced - and this is the same for Switzerland.

    I have to say I agree with them. When tolerance of faiths that are practiced by a minority, and largely immigrant, proportion of the population starts to run into allowing things that adversely impact on the traditional culture and values of the host community, it's time to take stock. The issue here is one of tolerance, not agree to everything in case someone somewhere screams that their faith is being discriminated against - a regular mistake we make in the UK, in my humble opinion.

    In the UK, we've had instances in the past where some local government officers have given orders that Christmas trees were not to be referred to as Christmas trees (but trees of celebration or some such nonsense) in case it caused offence to the local minority muslim community. Shame they didn't ask the muslim community leaders what they thought first - most people I know who practice the islamic faith think this sort of thing is ridiculous and actually harms, rather than helps, good community relations.

    I somehow doubt there'll be riots in the streets in Geneva over this.

  7. #7
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    Default

    Just thought I'd add this . . .

    Yesterday, out of curiousity, I looked out of window of my fourth floor office -I work in a small city north of Watford and South of Hadrian's Wall - and no prizes for guessing what the dominant feature on the city skyline was? No longer is our beautilful, centuries old cathedral the main material feature for the area, but it now shares the airspace with a a ten year old brick built tower that has never, to the best of my knowledge, been used for the purpose it was errected, ie to summon the faithful (who, according to official stats, make up only around 6% of the city's population) to prayer.

    Definitely a fitting tribute to the tolerence, or political correctness (however one sees it), that can be found in the UK today.

    I can understand the attitude of the Swiss.

  8. #8

    Default Uk21

    There are strong negative reactions to Swiss minaret ban, but
    to be fair, at least Swiss have also banned the flout-freedom-of-expression, aka expression of prejudice; thus, this cartoon is a no no in Swiss:


    BTW, UK is well known for its freedom of almost-anything, unbanning Mr. Wilders is a good example.



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    Mr Wilders ?

  10. #10

    Default Mr. Wilders

    Quote Originally Posted by UK-21 View Post
    Mr Wilders ?


    This is Mr. Wilders, who was first banned by UK's Homeland Security Secretary,
    then unbanned by UK's Tribunal.
    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...n-1802012.html


  11. #11
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    Ah yes . . . . I'm aware of that story, although the name didn't immediately spring to mind.

    That happens a lot in the UK - silly politicians making decisions and giving directions that are subsequently found to be unlawful and have to be reversed. There was a case in the not too distant past where the Government stated they would "deport" a convicted (Italian by birth) murderer back to Italy when he had served his sentence and was released from gaol, only to be told that there were no lawful grounds to do this and that if he got on the next plane back to the UK the authorities would have no lawful grounds to deny him entry back into the UK. Unfortunately, there are still many people here that think we have an empire and have an independent legal system that allows politicians to make up the rules as they go along. It's the same reason that habitual criminals from any of 26 other European nations are free to enter the UK unhindered unless a warrant for their arrest is current.

    As to Mr Wilders, without meaning to sound ani-Islamic by saying so, he's views are no more extreme than some of the visiting islamic clerics that do the rounds of the mosques in the UK, and who despite the reservations of more moderate members of the muslim communities are given a platform to air their views. A investigative journalist made a documentary on the subject of how extremism was being given a platform within mosques throughout the UK, and caught several instances of individuals inciting congregations to commit criminal acts on film. If ever there was evidence to justify a banning order on individuals who are not UK/EU citizens in the interests of national security, there it was. Despite this, I don't think a single one of these visiting "clerics" was removed or banned from entering the country. No prizes for guessing why.
    Last edited by UK-21; December 3rd, 2009 at 01:57 AM.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Abenzio View Post
    This is Mr. Wilders, who was first banned by UK's Homeland Security Secretary,
    then unbanned by UK's Tribunal.
    www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/dutch-extremist-geert-wilders-wins-appeal-to-enter-britain-1802012.html

    Gee, who knows, they may unban Michael Savage next!
    Aslan 11/1/90 - 6/15/10 Stormy 1/22/95 -8/23/10
    “There are not one hundred people in the United States who hate The Catholic Church,
    but there are millions who hate what they wrongly perceive the Catholic Church to be.”
    Bishop Fulton J. Sheen

    “It takes a very long time to become young.” Pablo Picasso

  13. #13

    Default UK's 86ings

    Quote Originally Posted by UK21
    Ah yes . . . . I'm aware of that story, although the name didn't immediately spring to mind.

    That happens a lot in the UK - silly politicians making decisions and giving directions that are subsequently found to be unlawful and have to be reversed... A investigative journalist made a documentary on the subject of how extremism was being given a platform within mosques throughout the UK, and caught several instances of individuals inciting congregations to commit criminal acts on film. If ever there was evidence to justify a banning order on individuals who are not UK/EU citizens in the interests of national security, there it was. Despite this, I don't think a single one of these visiting "clerics" was removed or banned from entering the country. No prizes for guessing why. ..

    Prizes or no prizes, here're my guesses. Perhaps UK's Tribunal would be overloaded by the disgruntled nonconformists if all those "clerics" were banned. Or perhaps the famous UK's Magna Carta prohibits Ms. Smith from banning those clerics. Hmmm I don't know...

    Quote Originally Posted by aslan View Post
    Gee, who knows, they may unban Michael Savage next!
    In order to get an unbanned-order from the UK's Tribunal, Doctor Michael Alan Weiner (aka Disc Jockey Michael Savage) has to wait on line along with these 86ed-guys:
    "Yunis al-Astal, a radical anti-Western Islamic cleric and Hamas member in the Gaza Strip,

    Mike Guzovsky, an Israeli Jewish extremist said to be involved in militant training camps,

    Artur Ryno and Pavel Skachevsky, Russian skinheads who, as teenagers, boasted two years ago of killing about 20 members of ethnic minorities,

    Stephen Donald Black and Eric Gliebe, both of whom openly espouse white supremacist views,

    Baptist preacher Fred Phelps of Topeka, Kan., and his daughter, Shirley Phelps-Roper, who call for divine wrath to be visited on gays and lesbians.
    "

    http://74.125.93.132/search?q=cache:...-britain-list6


  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Abenzio View Post
    Prizes or no prizes, here're my guesses. Perhaps UK's Tribunal would be overloaded by the disgruntled nonconformists if all those "clerics" were banned. Or perhaps the famous UK's Magna Carta prohibits Ms. Smith from banning those clerics. Hmmm I don't know...



    In order to get an unbanned-order from the UK's Tribunal, Doctor Michael Alan Weiner (aka Disc Jockey Michael Savage) has to wait on line along with these 86ed-guys:
    "Yunis al-Astal, a radical anti-Western Islamic cleric and Hamas member in the Gaza Strip,

    Mike Guzovsky, an Israeli Jewish extremist said to be involved in militant training camps,

    Artur Ryno and Pavel Skachevsky, Russian skinheads who, as teenagers, boasted two years ago of killing about 20 members of ethnic minorities,

    Stephen Donald Black and Eric Gliebe, both of whom openly espouse white supremacist views,

    Baptist preacher Fred Phelps of Topeka, Kan., and his daughter, Shirley Phelps-Roper, who call for divine wrath to be visited on gays and lesbians.
    "

    http://74.125.93.132/search?q=cache:...-britain-list6

    The UK has seen better days, that is for sure. I'm not sure why Michael would even want to visit the former homeland, seeing what a Wasteland it has become. A prime example of the perils of statism.
    Aslan 11/1/90 - 6/15/10 Stormy 1/22/95 -8/23/10
    “There are not one hundred people in the United States who hate The Catholic Church,
    but there are millions who hate what they wrongly perceive the Catholic Church to be.”
    Bishop Fulton J. Sheen

    “It takes a very long time to become young.” Pablo Picasso

  15. #15
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    Very unfair to call the UK a "wasteland" (and with a capital "W" at that). There are many parts of the UK that are very beautiful and deserving of a visit, and contrary to the belief of many around the globe it's not yet ready to be categorised as "third world".

    There's no doubt though that on this side of the pond, as a nation, we do have some seriously f--cked up priorities, many of which are dressed up as:

    "tolerance" - allowing offensive extremist religious views to be publicised unchallenged by the courts despite there being clear grounds for prosecution,

    "social cohesion" - handing over large sums of tax-payers money to private faith based schools with narrow, minority, educational agendas (a recent story in the press),

    "tackling exclusion" - our softly, softly criminal justice system that has become an extension of social services rather than being there to appropriately punish convicted criminals, protect the interests of victims and those of us who don't break the law and to act as a deterrent to criminal activity in the first place. And no, this is not just a perception - there are lots of examples that would leave most reasonable-minded people around the world incredulous.

    "greater integration with Europe" - which has resulted in a free-for-all, open border policy that any habitual criminal from any of 26 other European states can take advantage of. In contrast, until very recently, if you had loyally served the Crown as a Gurkha soldier for 22 years you still had no rights to settle in the UK. It's only bad, and embarassing publicity (for the Government) that has finally corrected this.

    etc etc. I could go on - and on, and on, and on and on . . . .

    I've just read this through in the preview. I probably come across as some right wing, zenophoebic, nutter but really I'm not. I'm just Mr average voter with concerns over the direction the country I was born and live in is being taken by our elected leaders, and the way in which the not-insubstantial proportion of my earnings that end up in the public coffers is used to improve life for the average, hardworking, law-abiding citizen of this green and pleasant land - who isn't able to claim for the costs of second properties that they have never even lived in from the public purse as a legitimate occupational expense, as some of our decent, honest, public spirited elected members of parliament have been found to have done.

    Rant over. . . .

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