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Thread: The ZenZone Migration discussion thread

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by RJT View Post
    A lot of people here seem to be taking this as an attempt to remove some of their rights and freedoms. I don't.
    I've never understood the purpose of having 'The Zen Zone'. This is a Blackjack and gambling site and the TZZ just seems completely out of place. Honestly i feel it just dialutes the content of the site
    There are plenty of places online to discuss the theories that are presented here that are far more appropriate than bjinfo - more than that, there is absolutely nothing to stop Zen setting up his own The Zen Boards. The people who post regularly in TZZ i'm sure would be more than happy to follow zg to his own site - he certainly has built his reputation within the community to a level that he's far from unknown.
    TZZ makes a much sense to me here as a forum to discuss the finer aspects of classical opera on a DIY construction site.
    Far from looking on this a censorship zg, i think you should be looking on this as an opportunity to headline you own show rather than have a sketch in this one. And from what i've picked out KS has even offered to pay for this site for you.

    RJT.
    If there are enough advantage players interested in classical opera, we should have a thread or forum here for them as well. Name:  thumb_small_idea_1.png
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    Aslan 11/1/90 - 6/15/10 Stormy 1/22/95 -8/23/10
    “There are not one hundred people in the United States who hate The Catholic Church,
    but there are millions who hate what they wrongly perceive the Catholic Church to be.”
    Bishop Fulton J. Sheen

    “It takes a very long time to become young.” Pablo Picasso

  2. #62
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    The name of the game is traffic. The Zen Zone generates a good deal of traffic for BJINFO. If the idea is that ZZ generates enough for its own web site, I get it. However, I for one will not frequent yet another web site, and I am a major contributor to the Zen Zone. That's just the way it is. Please keep ZZ here. Thanks.
    Aslan 11/1/90 - 6/15/10 Stormy 1/22/95 -8/23/10
    “There are not one hundred people in the United States who hate The Catholic Church,
    but there are millions who hate what they wrongly perceive the Catholic Church to be.”
    Bishop Fulton J. Sheen

    “It takes a very long time to become young.” Pablo Picasso

  3. #63

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    I have enjoyed the Zen Zone for some time, and read the ZG interview well before finding bjinfo. Yes, the ZZ is full of controversy, misinformation, nutjobs... and plain old common sense. its up to the reader to decide what is true and what is false. thats life. I have always compared the people and opinions here to some of the people you find actually playing blackjack, the range is endless. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jwDq32MtOQU (put your own professions, racial comments, opinions etc to the words of the song.)

    If Ken really wants to move the ZZ, thats his choice. I dont agree with it, but he must have his reasons. since this is still the ZZ, I will put my 2 cents worth in. I think that Ken wants to focus the site entirely on blackjack, and be rid of the distractions associated with other topics. My gut feeling is that some people would like to contribute to blackjack threads, but wont because of the perceived strife in other areas, and fear being shot down by members who normally post here.

    For the record, I cut blackjack play to maybe 2-3 times a year, for many reasons. 1. I hate what Las Vegas has become, and would prefer the american mob running the game over the corporations. 2. Smoke. 3. Freakin lousy games that arent getting any better. 4. It takes up a lot of time. 5. watered down drinks. 6. lazy cocktail waitresses. 7. insert your own pet peave.

    I will follow the zone somewhere else, but I cant help thinking that there is a missed opportunity not keeping it right here.
    Last edited by Brutus; October 22nd, 2009 at 08:06 AM.

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by aslan View Post
    The name of the game is traffic. The Zen Zone generates a good deal of traffic for BJINFO. If the idea is that ZZ generates enough for its own web site, I get it. However, I for one will not frequent yet another web site, and I am a major contributor to the Zen Zone. That's just the way it is. Please keep ZZ here. Thanks.
    Aslan - that honestly appears a bit of a spit the dummy out the pram and have a tantrum approach. If you really valued this forum that much it certainly wouldn't seem to be that much hassel to add the extra link in your favorites?
    And the name of the game isn't traffic - it's relevant traffic. If i want to discuss music i go to one of several music boards i frequent. If i want to discuss teaching i visit one of the many boards where teachers gather to discuss professional views and techniques. If all that was relevant was procuring traffic, it would be easy enough for Ken to start a little porn sharing forum or to make this a more generalised gambling forum (think the gambling times). The traffic would spike, but the people visiting the forum wouldn't be visiting for the right reasons. In fact, this is the same reason that Ken runs seperate tournament and AP site - to filter traffic to the correct loaction for the subject the viewer is looking to discuss.

    RJT.

    P.S. zg - before anything more is made of this, i am not trying to draw the comparison between TZZ and a porn site, it was just a good example of how to draw extra traffic.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by RJT View Post
    P.S. zg - before anything more is made of this, i am not trying to draw the comparison between TZZ and a porn site, it was just a good example of how to draw extra traffic.
    http://www.sexgamesbox.com/blackjack-off.html

  6. #66
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    Crappy Rules AM. ARRGGGG.
    There Is No Second Place Winner ...even if your not brusque and merely informative.

  7. #67

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    So the million dollar question is... is BJINFO going to eliminate the ANYTHING ELSE forum?

    RJT, you are appearing to be a stalking horse for Ken? Can you answer the above?

    A comparison, BTW, has been made to both BJ21 and Twoplustwo.com, both are AP sites and both have robust non-AP discussion forums that mesh well with the overall congruency.

    I am inclined to keep the comms going here at BJINFO even if ZZ gets re-merged with Anything. Now if Anything is going to remain, will there be rules like "no politics or religion discussions allowed"? zg
    Last edited by zengrifter; October 22nd, 2009 at 02:01 PM.
    "The dogs bark but the caravan moves on."
    .....................The Zengrifter Interview (PDF) |
    The Zengrifter / James Grosjean Reputation Debate
    -----------------------------------------
    “Truth, like gold, is obtained not by growth, but by washing away all that is not gold.” — Leo Tolstoy........
    "Is everything a conspiracy? No, just the important stuff." ZG

  8. #68

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    Quote Originally Posted by RJT View Post
    And the name of the game isn't traffic - it's relevant traffic. If i want to discuss music i go to one of several music boards i frequent. If i want to discuss teaching i visit one of the many boards where teachers gather to discuss professional views and techniques. If all that was relevant was procuring traffic, it would be easy enough for Ken to start a little porn sharing forum or to make this a more generalised gambling forum (think the gambling times).
    Quote Originally Posted by Canceler View Post
    Over at 2+2 they have at least three different forums for discussing the sort of
    Quote Originally Posted by zengrifter View Post
    A comparison, BTW, has been made to both BJ21 and Twoplustwo.com, both are AP sites and both have robust non-AP discussion forums that mesh well with the overall congruency.
    Here is the TwoPlusTwo Religion and Science/Philosophy Forums -

    Science, Math, and Philosophy
    Discussions regarding science, math, and/or philosophy.
    Religion, God, and Theology
    Discussion of God, religion, faith, theology, and spirituality.

    Here is the main index of TwoPlusTwo's non-AP forums -
    Sub-Forums : Other Topics

    Notice the huge # of posts and threads. In retrospect my (huge?) investment in discussion/time of the ALL IMPORTANT subjects of our time: Middle East, Science, Economics, Health, Religion, Philosophy, etc. might have been better served, and to a greater number of readers and participants, had the effort been put forth on TwoPlusTwo... BUT we made BJINFO our home. zg
    Last edited by zengrifter; October 22nd, 2009 at 03:57 PM.
    "The dogs bark but the caravan moves on."
    .....................The Zengrifter Interview (PDF) |
    The Zengrifter / James Grosjean Reputation Debate
    -----------------------------------------
    “Truth, like gold, is obtained not by growth, but by washing away all that is not gold.” — Leo Tolstoy........
    "Is everything a conspiracy? No, just the important stuff." ZG

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by zengrifter View Post
    So the million dollar question is... is BJINFO going to eliminate the ANYTHING ELSE forum?

    RJT, you are appearing to be a stalking horse for Ken? Can you answer the above?

    A comparison, BTW, has been made to both BJ21 and Twoplustwo.com, both are AP sites and both have robust non-AP discussion forums that mesh well with the overall congruency.

    I am inclined to keep the comms going here at BJINFO even if ZZ gets re-merged with Anything. Now if Anything is going to remain, will there be rules like "no politics or religion discussions allowed"? zg
    Zen - you know Ken far better than i do. I've given you my personal opinion nothing more.

    RJT.

  10. #70

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    Quote Originally Posted by RJT View Post
    Zen - you know Ken far better than i do. I've given you my personal opinion nothing more.
    So, okay - just seemed like you were "in the know". How about the points above - the politics and religion, etc. discussion forums at the other AP sites - would you make similar advice to Wong or Sklansky? Just curious. zg
    "The dogs bark but the caravan moves on."
    .....................The Zengrifter Interview (PDF) |
    The Zengrifter / James Grosjean Reputation Debate
    -----------------------------------------
    “Truth, like gold, is obtained not by growth, but by washing away all that is not gold.” — Leo Tolstoy........
    "Is everything a conspiracy? No, just the important stuff." ZG

  11. #71

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    Quote Originally Posted by RJT View Post
    Aslan - that honestly appears a bit of a spit the dummy out the pram and have a tantrum approach.
    What the hell is that? East London? zg
    "The dogs bark but the caravan moves on."
    .....................The Zengrifter Interview (PDF) |
    The Zengrifter / James Grosjean Reputation Debate
    -----------------------------------------
    “Truth, like gold, is obtained not by growth, but by washing away all that is not gold.” — Leo Tolstoy........
    "Is everything a conspiracy? No, just the important stuff." ZG

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by zengrifter View Post
    So, okay - just seemed like you were "in the know". How about the points above - the politics and religion, etc. discussion forums at the other AP sites - would you make similar advice to Wong or Sklansky? Just curious. zg
    Yeh i would - i don't frequent those sites. Truthfully this is one of the few straight AP sites i visit so i'm not overly familiar with either of those sites.
    If we're being straight i think if you handled it right and marketed it right your own board could end up with higher traffic than this site. As it is, you get posters that come to this board looking for something else - if you promoted to the right audiences you could well end up with a lot of traffic of your own. Whether i spend a lot of time here or not, there's no doubt that everyone has an opinion on a lot of the topics posted in TZZ.

    RJT.

  13. #73
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    Default Pros and cons?

    Let's review the whys and wherefores of the ZenZone. This my oppinion so feel free to correct as needed you are in the zone. We come here for a break inside the site for various reasons some may be to idle while waiting for a reply on a question we asked or someone else. We come here to read some pretty off the wall stuff that is thought provokiing or just plain wacko. It is sometimes rude and sometimes insulting but that is the nature of this forum. I don't go to alot of sites and I think this is a draw to the site that other sites don't have. I still think it would be a mistake to remove or muzzle the forum by removing it.
    " That we may meet in a better place after this!"

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by RJT View Post
    Aslan - that honestly appears a bit of a spit the dummy out the pram and have a tantrum approach. If you really valued this forum that much it certainly wouldn't seem to be that much hassel to add the extra link in your favorites?
    And the name of the game isn't traffic - it's relevant traffic. If i want to discuss music i go to one of several music boards i frequent. If i want to discuss teaching i visit one of the many boards where teachers gather to discuss professional views and techniques. If all that was relevant was procuring traffic, it would be easy enough for Ken to start a little porn sharing forum or to make this a more generalised gambling forum (think the gambling times). The traffic would spike, but the people visiting the forum wouldn't be visiting for the right reasons. In fact, this is the same reason that Ken runs seperate tournament and AP site - to filter traffic to the correct loaction for the subject the viewer is looking to discuss.

    RJT.

    P.S. zg - before anything more is made of this, i am not trying to draw the comparison between TZZ and a porn site, it was just a good example of how to draw extra traffic.
    I believe you have misunderstood my meaning. I admit I don't know much about websites and how they make money. I thought it was traffic. If I am wrong about that, somebody please correct me. As for "relevant" traffic, the blackjack traffic goes to that part of the board and the political and other commentary go to its part of the board. I don't think one dilutes the other. If I were totally into advantage play and nothing else, I could easily restrict my web travels to the blackjack subjects on the board. I personally like the diversity found in a single URL location. That doesn't suit all people, but it suits me to a tee. I see no downside to controversy in the Zen Zone, since no one has to go there in order to enjoy the other aspects of the board. The same goes for all parts of the board. I have seen heated discussions in the VooDoo section, but as with the Zen Zone, no one has to go there. For that matter, I have seen heated discussions in the Counting section of the board, as when someone objects to another who puts himself forth as an expert on some point. Controversy and subject matter are irrelevant as far as I am concerned. The Zen Zone is one and only one small part of the board. The strictly Blackjack topics far outnumber the non-Blackjack topics. If the reason for migrating ZZ elsewhere had anything to do with subject matter, you would have to make the same case for Anything Else, and the Marshall Plan.

    It seems to me the reason for the move must be due to the amount of traffic. Either the efficiency or management of the board is bogged down due to the heavy traffic in the Zen Zone, or there is an opportunity for profits to be made by spitting off to a new board (Profits are made by these bulletin boards, aren't they? I don't know, I just assumed there was profit in it.) Anyway, I doubt it has anything to do with controversy, except as an added management workload item, or anything to do with relevance, at least no more than Target having a Pizza Hut franchise in its stores, or WalMart selling food, or Starbucks having a presence in your local grocery store. Sorry, I like it the way it is. But of course you're entitled to your point of view. I hope I didn't come off sounding like the White House. (chuckle)
    Aslan 11/1/90 - 6/15/10 Stormy 1/22/95 -8/23/10
    “There are not one hundred people in the United States who hate The Catholic Church,
    but there are millions who hate what they wrongly perceive the Catholic Church to be.”
    Bishop Fulton J. Sheen

    “It takes a very long time to become young.” Pablo Picasso

  15. #75

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    Quote Originally Posted by RJT View Post
    And the name of the game isn't traffic - it's relevant traffic. If i want to discuss music i go to one of several music boards i frequent. If i want to discuss teaching i visit one of the many boards where teachers gather to discuss professional views and techniques. If all that was relevant was procuring traffic, it would be easy enough for Ken to start a little porn sharing forum or to make this a more generalised gambling forum (think the gambling times). The traffic would spike, but the people visiting the forum wouldn't be visiting for the right reasons.
    For a site like this, that only features NON-RELEVANT advertising, like cigars and bedspreads, the visitors to Zzone captured via ZZ search index would actually be no less likely to click on the bedspreads ad than a wannabe card-counter.

    Your reference to Ken hypothetically adding a porn forum strikes us as ...
    ...not ... RELEVANT. zg
    "The dogs bark but the caravan moves on."
    .....................The Zengrifter Interview (PDF) |
    The Zengrifter / James Grosjean Reputation Debate
    -----------------------------------------
    “Truth, like gold, is obtained not by growth, but by washing away all that is not gold.” — Leo Tolstoy........
    "Is everything a conspiracy? No, just the important stuff." ZG

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