+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 21 12345611 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 306

Thread: Is Jesus a Myth?

  1. #1

    Default Is Jesus a Myth?

    TruthBeKnown.com | Tuesday, May 26, 2009

    Is Jesus a Myth?


    Although I deal with many subjects within the fascinating field of comparative religion and mythology, one of my major focuses is on the thesis that the biblical figure called "Jesus Christ" represents a mythological compilation of characters, including various Pagan gods and the awaited Jewish messiah(s). In my various writings, which include The Christ Conspiracy, Suns of God, Who Was Jesus?, Christ in Egypt and Jesus as the Sun, I bring together evidence that a multinational cabal largely composed of Jews, Samaritans, Greeks, Romans and Egyptians created first the Jesus character and then later Christian tradition, eventually in order to unify the Roman Empire under one state religion.

    I demonstrate this thesis in a wide variety of ways, including dissecting the canonical gospels on their face, as I do in my book Who Was Jesus? Fingerprints of The Christ. After this vast amount of evidence both ancient and modern, internal and external, is studied, it becomes obvious that once the mythological and messianic literary layers are peeled away, there remains no core to the onion.


    The book your pastor or priest doesn't want you to read!

    Indeed, we are left with the conclusion that the mythical figure of "Jesus Christ" was largely contrived in order to raise the Jewish religion and scriptures to the forefront of religious ideologies, to fulfill the biblical "prophecy" that the Jews are the "chosen people," that their nation is the "Holy Land" and that their tribal writings represent "God's Word." As stated in the Old Testament:
    "For you are a people holy to the LORD your God; the LORD your God has chosen you to be a people for his own possession, out of all the peoples that are on the face of the earth."
    Deuteronomy 7:6
    "When you draw near to a city to fight against it, offer terms of peace to it. And if its answer to you is peace and it opens to you, then all the people who are found in it shall do forced labor for you and shall serve you. But if it makes no peace with you, but makes war against you, then you shall besiege it; and when the LORD your God gives it into your hand you shall put all its males to the sword, but the women and the little ones, the cattle, and everything else in the city, all its spoil, you shall take as booty for yourselves; and you shall enjoy the spoil of your enemies, which the LORD your God has given you. Thus you shall do to all the cities which are very far from you, which are not cities of the nations here. But in the cities of these peoples that the LORD your God gives you for an inheritance, you shall save nothing that breathes ..."
    Deuteronomy 20:10-16
    "Foreigners (Gentiles) shall rebuild your walls, and their kings shall minister to you ...Your gates shall be open continuously; day and night they shall not be shut; that men may bring to you the wealth of the nations, with their kings led in procession. For the nation or kingdom that will not not serve you; shall perish; those nations shall be utterly laid waste...."

    Isaiah 60:10-12

    "You shall suck the milk of nations, you shall suck the breast of kings; and you shall know that I, the LORD, am your Savior and your Redeemer, the Mighty One of Jacob."

    Isaiah 60:16

    "And strangers [Gentiles] shall stand and feed your flocks, strangers shall be your plowmen and vinedressers; but you shall be called the priests of the LORD, men shall speak of you as the ministers of our God; you shall eat the wealth of the nations, and in their riches you shall glory."

    Isaiah 61:5-6

    The same sentiment and sense of triumph are reflected in "A Real Case Against the Jews" by Jewish writer Marcus Eli Ravage, published in The Century Magazine, v. 115, no. 3, The Century Co., NY, 1928, p. 346ff:
    "Our tribal customs have become the core of your moral code. Our tribal laws have furnished the basic groundwork of all your august constitutions and legal systems. Our legends and our folk-tales are the sacred lore which you croon to your infants. Our poets have filled your hymnals and your prayer-books. Our national history has become an indispensable part of the learning of your pastors and priests and scholars. Our kings, our statesmen, our prophets, our warriors are your heroes. Our ancient little country is your Holy Land. Our national literature is your Holy Bible. What our people thought and taught has become inextricably woven into your very speech and tradition, until no one among you can be called educated who is not familiar with our racial heritage.

    "Jewish artisans and Jewish fishermen are your teachers and your saints, with countless statues carved in their image and innumerable cathedrals raised to their memories. A Jewish maiden is your ideal of motherhood and womanhood. A Jewish rebel-prophet is the central figure in your religious worship. We have pulled down your idols, cast aside your racial inheritance, and substituted for them our God and our traditions. No conquest in history can even remotely compare with this clean sweep of our conquest over you."
    When we realize that the ancient, pre-Christian world was filled with stories about superhuman gods, goddesses and heroes of all cultures whose purported lives on Earth were replete with miracles of all manner, we must recognize that it is only by extraordinary human perseverance that one particular set of fabulous tales from one particular culture has become accepted as "true," while all the rest are deemed "myths." In actuality, the acceptance as "history" of such patent fairytales as the son of God born of a virgin who miraculously heals the sick, raises the dead, walks on water, transfigures on a mount, resurrects from death and ascends into heaven ranks as cultural bias and extreme prejudice, not reality. It is high time that this fallacious development and lopsided injustice be exposed and the whole of the human cultural record be embraced.

    MORE- http://tbknews.blogspot.com/2009/05/is-jesus-myth.html
    "The dogs bark but the caravan moves on."
    .....................The Zengrifter Interview (PDF) |
    The Zengrifter / James Grosjean Reputation Debate
    -----------------------------------------
    “Truth, like gold, is obtained not by growth, but by washing away all that is not gold.” — Leo Tolstoy........
    "Is everything a conspiracy? No, just the important stuff." ZG

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Socal
    Posts
    26

    Default

    Excellent. I like this. After taking numerous ancient world classes as electives in college: Greek Mythology, Roman World, Pagan culture, and Classical archaeology, (all of which show the polytheistic convictions of religion prior to the monotheistic cult of Jesus Christ), I completely agree with the thesis. Many people do not realize that polytheism predated monotheism.

    Monotheism at least partially developed within a timeframe when the cult (secret society) of Jesus Christ was persecuted due to its incompatibility with the state religion of Paganism. (not the modern "Wicca" "pagan" trash)

    Ancient Paganism as scholarly defined:

    "The cultivation of or belief in divinities that are part of the natural world and nothing else." ie, all the Greek and Roman gods that ruled over their specific sphere of influence- places, processes, and things; was THE state religion and there was concern that Christian influence could result in civil unrest. (the Christians weren't considered "unruly," but they were considered a secret society, and also, but most importantly, the state demanded "cultus deorum,' or cultivation of the PROPER gods that controlled the environment in which humans needed to survive comfortably.

    Interestlingly, after taking these classical world courses, I was assigned the book "Gilgamesh," in the religious studies class i took.

    Written in cuneiform approximately one thousand years before the bible, it's an account of a great flood, presumably the same one written in the bible- albeit 1000 years earlier. I guess Gilgameshs' account of the flood could be the ancient source to which the bible refers to.

    Floods do make interesting stories. http://geokerk.googlepages.com/gilgame%C5%A1
    Last edited by Xenophon; May 27th, 2009 at 02:52 AM.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    East Coast, U S A
    Posts
    69

    Default

    In modern times we all imagine that Jesus Christ was a unique figure.

    That is not entirely correct.

    Let us understand that it was several centuries after his death that Christianity came to be.

    The most important factoid is the understanding that 2 millennia ago, in the Middle East, there were hundreds of epileptics, schizophrenics, etc. that walked about speaking and behaving as we imagine the Christ Figure had.

  4. #4

    Default

    "The dogs bark but the caravan moves on."
    .....................The Zengrifter Interview (PDF) |
    The Zengrifter / James Grosjean Reputation Debate
    -----------------------------------------
    “Truth, like gold, is obtained not by growth, but by washing away all that is not gold.” — Leo Tolstoy........
    "Is everything a conspiracy? No, just the important stuff." ZG

  5. #5

    Default

    I guess it was a forgone conlusion that I would jump in on this one. So, here goes...

    Is Jesus a Myth? No.

    Of course, it would make everyone's life easier if He was a myth. But, alas, He was a real person, IS a real person. And what you do about this person will determine how you spend all of eternity. As a friend of mine used to say, "This is life's most important decision."

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    131

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by preacher View Post
    I guess it was a forgone conlusion that I would jump in on this one. So, here goes...

    Is Jesus a Myth? No.

    Of course, it would make everyone's life easier if He was a myth. But, alas, He was a real person, IS a real person. And what you do about this person will determine how you spend all of eternity. As a friend of mine used to say, "This is life's most important decision."
    I have a question for you preacher, was or is Jesus God?

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Socal
    Posts
    26

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by preacher View Post
    I guess it was a forgone conlusion that I would jump in on this one. So, here goes...

    Is Jesus a Myth? No.

    Of course, it would make everyone's life easier if He was a myth. But, alas, He was a real person, IS a real person. And what you do about this person will determine how you spend all of eternity. As a friend of mine used to say, "This is life's most important decision."
    Jesus may not have been a myth as now understood (imaginary person/story), but one important thing to remember is that his story has roots when myth as scholars define: "A traditional story with collective importance," was the medium through which state and society perpetuated the teachings of Paganism which was the believed and mandated religion before the conversion to monotheism under Constantine.

    Why would everyone's life be easier if Jesus was, in fact, imaginary? That sounds rather counter-intuitive considering as far as i understand, he was sent to save us sinful people.

    (I won't ask why sin was allowed to exist in the first place)
    Last edited by Xenophon; May 27th, 2009 at 07:20 PM.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Third base
    Posts
    11,323

    Default Nuts in fruit cakes

    Quote Originally Posted by FLASH1296 View Post
    In modern times we all imagine that Jesus Christ was a unique figure.

    That is not entirely correct.

    Let us understand that it was several centuries after his death that Christianity came to be.

    The most important factoid is the understanding that 2 millennia ago, in the Middle East, there were hundreds of epileptics, schizophrenics, etc. that walked about speaking and behaving as we imagine the Christ Figure had.
    In that old classic Jack Nicholson movie: One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest, a mental institution attendant talks of another institution where they had '27 Jesus Christs.' When you originally begin with an unprovable story as nutty as the christ story, and which has been fervently promoted for so long, ever since, then guess what?... you are gonna get one hellova lot of nuts to put in your fruit cake.
    Dogma schmogma

  9. #9

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by preacher View Post
    I guess it was a forgone conlusion that I would jump in on this one. So, here goes...

    Is Jesus a Myth? No.

    Of course, it would make everyone's life easier if He was a myth. But, alas, He was a real person, IS a real person. And what you do about this person will determine how you spend all of eternity. As a friend of mine used to say, "This is life's most important decision."
    Let me see here, Preacher... God so loved the world that he sent his Son as the sacred living eucharist to mankind, and all He requires is that you love His Son... otherwise you will burn in Hell for all eternity... and who is His Son?... He is His Son!

    Have I got it right? zg

    Ps - Welcome to the ZenZone, Preacher, we are honored to have you here!
    Last edited by zengrifter; May 28th, 2009 at 02:14 AM.
    "The dogs bark but the caravan moves on."
    .....................The Zengrifter Interview (PDF) |
    The Zengrifter / James Grosjean Reputation Debate
    -----------------------------------------
    “Truth, like gold, is obtained not by growth, but by washing away all that is not gold.” — Leo Tolstoy........
    "Is everything a conspiracy? No, just the important stuff." ZG

  10. #10

    Default

    "The dogs bark but the caravan moves on."
    .....................The Zengrifter Interview (PDF) |
    The Zengrifter / James Grosjean Reputation Debate
    -----------------------------------------
    “Truth, like gold, is obtained not by growth, but by washing away all that is not gold.” — Leo Tolstoy........
    "Is everything a conspiracy? No, just the important stuff." ZG

  11. #11

    Default

    For Yeshua to be True mankind needs a new understanding ...
    "The dogs bark but the caravan moves on."
    .....................The Zengrifter Interview (PDF) |
    The Zengrifter / James Grosjean Reputation Debate
    -----------------------------------------
    “Truth, like gold, is obtained not by growth, but by washing away all that is not gold.” — Leo Tolstoy........
    "Is everything a conspiracy? No, just the important stuff." ZG

  12. #12

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MAZ View Post
    I have a question for you preacher, was or is Jesus God?
    Objection, your Honor, Maz is leading the witness!! zg
    "The dogs bark but the caravan moves on."
    .....................The Zengrifter Interview (PDF) |
    The Zengrifter / James Grosjean Reputation Debate
    -----------------------------------------
    “Truth, like gold, is obtained not by growth, but by washing away all that is not gold.” — Leo Tolstoy........
    "Is everything a conspiracy? No, just the important stuff." ZG

  13. #13

    Default

    Is Jesus God? Yes. Absolutely.

    I have a question for ya’ll. Where’d all the anger/hostility come from? I love the debate, don’t get me wrong. I wouldn't be here if I couldn't stand the heat - I love debating more than I love blackjack. But, it seems that there is a slight undercurrent of meanness in some of the sarcasm. Would you be surprised, would your world crumble, if it turns out that Jesus is God and He is the Savior of the world?

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Third base
    Posts
    11,323

    Default Meanness and sarcasm, slight undercurrent here

    Quote Originally Posted by preacher View Post
    Is Jesus God? Yes. Absolutely.

    I have a question for ya’ll. Where’d all the anger/hostility come from? I love the debate, don’t get me wrong. I wouldn't be here if I couldn't stand the heat - I love debating more than I love blackjack. But, it seems that there is a slight undercurrent of meanness in some of the sarcasm. Would you be surprised, would your world crumble, if it turns out that Jesus is God and He is the Savior of the world?
    Guess I'll go first preacher. I believe various religions have proved to be calamitous and deadly for the human race. Particularly the two main ones: Christianity and Islam. These two clashed during the Crusades, resulting in untold casualties for more than 200 years. Then Christianity gave us the Inquisition, in which the church's official number for the victims is around 6000, whereas other unbiased sources have placed the number in the millions. The church proved itself to be the deadly enemy of free thought and free expression in the reign of terror that lasted for more than 600 years.

    I believe just those examples are plenty for anyone to feel mean, angry and disturbed about these religions that have been responsible for the murder of so many innocents, in the name of some 'god'. Killing for 'god' is still going on today, and it will probably never cease. I believe there are fundamental flaws in the basic ideas and origins of these two religions. For example, a belief in DUALISM; belief in SEPARATION; and erroneous beliefs about the origin and meaning of evil.

    I say humans have been misled, deliberately tricked, lied to, and used by religion, since religion first appeared. And what have we got to show for all the pomp, ceremony, pageantry and piety? A few nice, crumbling cathedrals in Europe that pigeons like, some great charities that perpetuate poverty - without giving hope; some silly ideas about reward in heaven if only you would stop sinning; the awful negativity of the idea that all are somehow tainted by someone taking one apple against the wish of a selfish old grump of an orchard owner; the endless praying to someone in heaven as if they are still alive and listening, and will save them from something, when they get to heaven... and those were just for starters. I'm just warming up.

    I'm glad you asked, preacher. Not sure if you are glad you asked though...
    Dogma schmogma

  15. #15

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FLASH1296 View Post
    Let us understand that it was several centuries after his death that Christianity came to be.
    While your general sentiment is debatably true, this specific statement is pretty false but a cornerstone of much pop fiction (e.g. Da Vinci Code) and conspiracy theory so I want to reply to it.

    Let's start with the fact that the Bible (specifically the Protestant Bible, if you want to be picky) wasn't formally canonized until the 4th century. People generally regard this as the "beginning" of Christianity but that's clearly false - by that time Christianity was widespread and legalized as a formal religion, so obviously Christianity predates the formal canonization of the Bible.

    By the early 3rd century, Origen had already published his informal canon - the Catholic Bible in present day form minus a few minor letters (James, 2 John, 3 John, and Jude? maybe Hebrews?). He wrote theological commentaries on all the books of the present [Protestant] Bible, so clearly Christianity, even the now-Protestant form, was already formed.

    As early as 150 CE we see the canonization of the four Gospel narratives we still use today - along with a slew of letters and essays on the heterodox Gospel narratives (e.g. Gnostic gospels). That there was heterodoxy at all should be a clue that Christianity was not even a nascent religion at this point - clearly there are enough Christians who believe one way that the Gnostic movement was outcast and marginalized.

    Assuming Markan priority (contested but most commonly accepted by both religious and secular Biblical scholars), the earliest WRITTEN Gospels are even earlier than that (again, contested, but most commonly accepted by both religious and secular Biblical scholars as being around 70 CE). If you additionally accept the Q hypothesis, there was a circulating, written Gospel even before that.

    Early Christian writers (e.g. Ignatius) extensively quoted from the Pauline letters in the early 2nd century, meaning they were written before then - again, most religious and secular scholars put the authorship dates around 50-60 CE (some argue certain letters were written later and not written by Paul, but even so, the undisputed letters are dated to the 50's).

    Basically, there's good evidence that well within a generation of Jesus - fact or fiction - there's an established Christian community which more or less believes the same things that Christians today believe. Any argument along the lines of "later Christians made stuff up to suit political needs" is pretty much a conspiracy theory (Zen Zone irony noted).

+ Reply to Thread

Similar Threads

  1. Memorializing the Deadly Myth of John Wayne
    By zengrifter in forum Real Politika
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: April 9th, 2014, 12:41 AM
  2. Holocaust a myth: Ahmadinejad
    By zengrifter in forum ZenZone General Discussion
    Replies: 105
    Last Post: March 31st, 2014, 09:49 PM
  3. Myth - Ron Paul Can Become President
    By zengrifter in forum ZenZone General Discussion
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: January 18th, 2007, 02:34 PM
  4. The Truth About the Jesus Myth -VIDEO
    By zengrifter in forum ZenZone General Discussion
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: December 29th, 2006, 09:20 PM
  5. Progress MYTH in Iraq
    By zengrifter in forum ZenZone General Discussion
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: March 10th, 2006, 04:37 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts