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Thread: Philosophers and Philosophy

  1. #106
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    Default From the Theatre of the Absurd

    “The absurd is the essential concept and the first truth.”
    Albert Camus (French Novelist, Essayist and Playwright, 1957 Nobel Prize for Literature, 1913-1960)

    “Doubt is not a pleasant condition but certainty is an absurd one.”
    Voltaire (French Philosopher and Writer. One of the greatest of all French authors, 1694-1778

    “Some who have read the book, or at any rate have reviewed it, have found it boring, absurd, or contemptible; and I have no cause to complain, since I have similar opinions of their works, or of the kinds of writing that they evidently prefer.”
    J.R.R. Tolkien (English Writer and Author of richly inventive epic fantasy The Lord of the Rings, 1892-1973)

    “When you know to laugh and when to look upon things as too absurd to take seriously, the other person is ashamed to carry through even if he was serious about it.”
    Eleanor Roosevelt (American United Nations Diplomat, Humanitarian and First Lady (1933-45), wife of Franklin D. Roosevelt, 32nd US president. 1884-1962)

    “The logic of the heart is absurd” Julie de Lespinasse

    “There is no opinion so absurd that some philosopher will not express it.”
    Marcus Tullius Cicero (Ancient Roman Lawyer, Writer, Scholar, Orator and Statesman, 106 BC-43 BC)

    “Life is absurd”
    Albert Camus (French Novelist, Essayist and Playwright, 1957 Nobel Prize for Literature, 1913-1960)

    “My objection to Christianity is that it is infinitely cruel, infinitely selfish, and I might add infinitely absurd.”
    Robert Green Ingersoll (American Statesman and Orator, noted for his broad range of culture and his defense of atheism. 1833-1899)


    “The notion that faith in Christ is to be rewarded by an eternity of bliss, while a dependence upon reason, observation, and experience merits everlasting pain, is too absurd for refutation, and can be relieved only by that unhappy mixture of insanity and ignorance called 'faith.'”
    Robert Green Ingersoll
    Dogma schmogma

  2. #107
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    mmmmmmm i love Tolkien but haven't read much Camus....


    Anyway, im slackn' a bit this week but im supposed to read Heidegger's "introduction to Metaphysics" if anyone wants to chime in or comment if they have read this piece either in part or as a whole
    i'm your huckleberry - Doc

  3. #108
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    Default Not such a bad guy...

    Quote Originally Posted by ace157 View Post
    mmmmmmm i love Tolkien but haven't read much Camus....


    Anyway, im slackn' a bit this week but im supposed to read Heidegger's "introduction to Metaphysics" if anyone wants to chime in or comment if they have read this piece either in part or as a whole
    From Wiki:
    "Martin Heidegger (26 September 1889 – 26 May 1976) (pronounced [ˈmaɐ̯tiːn ˈhaɪ̯dɛgɐ]) was an influential German philosopher. His best known book, Being and Time, is generally considered to be one of the most important philosophical works of the 20th century. Heidegger remains controversial due to his involvement with Nazism."
    Ace157, Not sure if there are any Nazis here, but it seems Herr Heidegger may have figured Adolph wasn't such a bad guy after all...
    Dogma schmogma

  4. #109
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    Default Notes on Heidegger

    His life long project was the study of "Being." The best analogy i found for this was a tree that continues to grow upward yet has a vast reaching root system. The tree represents a state of being yet how do we define it since it is always changing. Another big crutch in "Intro to Metaphysics" is the concept Dasein; that is that a being is aware of and questions their being.... or beings for whom being is an issue.. ie, humans. Heidegger said that there are occurrences in our life where we will either have to leap into or be (forcefully and unpreparidly) "sprung" into asking "why are their beings at all instead of nothing?" The reason such a question arises is that we try to cope with our emanate fear of death and other things by diffusing to or assimilating with a group of people; we build illusions to distract us from harsh reality( example: terminally ill medical patients). Heidegger will then state that it is a waste of time to talk about nothing, and later assume that "why are there beings at all?" is a theological question which only God can answer. Thus humans are left only to pick apart the linguistics of the question(s) and hence "metaphysics" is born. Also, once you ask "why" to the above question you will never be the same because you have started in infinite regress of asking "why did i ask why..."

    Ethics:
    I thought this piece was particularly interesting. The English word "ethics" is derived from the Latin "ethos." However, Heidegger claims this is the reason form "spiritual decay" in the world. Certainly, there is a difference between ethos (emotion motive) and ethics. Heidegger says that ethos combined with morality creates ethics. However, that means there is a sense of morality within ethics but we know that such a thing as "negative ethics" exists where the ethos (emotional motivation) is negative or immoral.

    Nazi: this is for you Katweezel
    It is greatly debated that Heidegger's early work was sympathetic towards the Nazi regime. However, his later work (after WW2) is not thought to be nearly as controversial. There is a tricky catch w/ Heidegger. He does not fancy himself in a position to tell others how they should act (such as Hegel) but rather his work is only descriptive philosophy. This means that he says you should live life authentically and in regards to Nazi support, Heidegger is only say how to act a certain way, never that you should act this certain way (that would be Normative philosophy). The only personal statement by Heidegger himself was that the only regrets not speaking out against the Nazis because it would hurt his career. In which case philosopher say is a bogus reason, and his superiors fired him anyway. However, many teachers in Germany were loosing their jobs and lives for not supporting the Nazis.
    i'm your huckleberry - Doc

  5. #110
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    Default Nazi paycheck

    Ace, In a wise move, Einstein fled the Nazis in 1933. Here is a list of other notables, some German, some Jewish who also wisely fled the Nazis: Popper, Ehrlich, Freund, Benjamin, Bronowski, Arendt, Freud, Gellner, Korner, Levi-Strauss, and these final three who are also alleged to have fled (not from Nazis) for personal reasons; Moses, Jesus, Mohammed. These last 3 may have demonstrated a wise one lives to fight another day, when he flees. And integrity expands.

    Would Herr H have been jacked up the totem recognition/reputation pole substantially, if he also had fled? I believe so. Instead, we are led to believe that maybe he was not such a big Nazi after all, (because they lost?) and after the war, he went with the winners. It appears he stayed to listen to Adolph because of a ... paycheck? So much for philosophy. Am I judging him harshly?
    Last edited by Katweezel; March 7th, 2009 at 07:36 AM.
    Dogma schmogma

  6. #111
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    Default Very brief summary on teachings of main religions

    Hinduism is regarded as the most ancient living world religion - over 5000 years old and is regarded as a way of life; not just a religion. God in Hinduism is thought of as Brahman - The Absolute. That is to say a being without form who pervades everything, is present everywhere, is all-knowing and who transcends time and space. Freedom from pain and suffering is the goal of life for all Hindus. It is said the mind is the cause of suffering, or freedom from suffering. If a state of mind is reached when one is able to transcend the pains and the pleasures of life, when one's will merges with the will of God, then that person has attained Moksha and is free from the cycle of births and deaths. This joining of oneself with God is called Yoga.
    Jainism teaches: Non-violence and reverence for all life. Truthfulness, communication in a pleasant and non-hurtful manner that is free from falsehood. Not stealing or taking anything which belongs to another without their permission. Chastity and control over senses. Non-attachment to material things.

    Bhuddism teaches the 4 Noble Truths:
    The fact of suffering. The cause of suffering. The fact that there is a way out of suffering. The way itself.

    Confucianism emphasizes doing what is right and proper in any situation.
    Taoism is about maintaining the balance of nature and Tao (primal source of all unity and existence.)
    Sikkhism advises to direct one's living toward enlightenment rather than redemption.

    Babylonians stressed goodness, truth, law and order, justice and freedom, wisdom and learning, courage and loyalty.
    Assyrians: A popular religion based on fear and superstition.

    Judaism was the first religion to profess faith in a single, omnipotent God. Worship of God is one of the central activities of religious Jews. Some of God's biblical names may have been associated with Canaanite pagan deities, such as YHVH, the name of God considered too holy to pronounce, and is derived from the Hebrew root: "to be."

    Zoroastrianism emphasizes: Good thoughts, good words, good deeds.
    Christianity teaches salvation from sin through Jesus.

    Islam means: "Submission." A Muslim is one who submits.
    There are 5 obligitory daily prayers. Islam is the second largest religion in the world after Christianity and has the fastest-growing body of believers.
    Muslims are not, and never have been, a single homogenous constituency. An 'open' view of Islam does not generalise about all Muslims everywhere, yet it remains committed to a critical analysis of the political uses and abuses of all religions.

    Essential message of the Qur'an: The one true God is the creator of all the world. He is most generous, sending humankind prophets with written messages (scriptures) to teach them what is required for salvation.
    Humans are rebellious; they reject or ignore this message and are a law unto themselves. Humankind should be mindful for, at the end of all time, all will return to God for the Day Of Judgement.
    Elsewhere, the Qur'an narrates the pleasures of paradise for those who remain on the straight path and the punishments of hell for those who do not.

    Reference: World Religions, a source book 2003, Flame Tree Publishing UK
    Dogma schmogma

  7. #112
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Katweezel View Post
    Hinduism is regarded as the most ancient living world religion - over 5000 years old and is regarded as a way of life; not just a religion. God in Hinduism is thought of as Brahman - The Absolute. That is to say a being without form who pervades everything, is present everywhere, is all-knowing and who transcends time and space. Freedom from pain and suffering is the goal of life for all Hindus. It is said the mind is the cause of suffering, or freedom from suffering. If a state of mind is reached when one is able to transcend the pains and the pleasures of life, when one's will merges with the will of God, then that person has attained Moksha and is free from the cycle of births and deaths. This joining of oneself with God is called Yoga.
    Jainism teaches: Non-violence and reverence for all life. Truthfulness, communication in a pleasant and non-hurtful manner that is free from falsehood. Not stealing or taking anything which belongs to another without their permission. Chastity and control over senses. Non-attachment to material things.

    Bhuddism teaches the 4 Noble Truths:
    The fact of suffering. The cause of suffering. The fact that there is a way out of suffering. The way itself.

    Confucianism emphasizes doing what is right and proper in any situation.
    Taoism is about maintaining the balance of nature and Tao (primal source of all unity and existence.)
    Sikkhism advises to direct one's living toward enlightenment rather than redemption.

    Babylonians stressed goodness, truth, law and order, justice and freedom, wisdom and learning, courage and loyalty.
    Assyrians: A popular religion based on fear and superstition.

    Judaism was the first religion to profess faith in a single, omnipotent God. Worship of God is one of the central activities of religious Jews. Some of God's biblical names may have been associated with Canaanite pagan deities, such as YHVH, the name of God considered too holy to pronounce, and is derived from the Hebrew root: "to be."

    Zoroastrianism emphasizes: Good thoughts, good words, good deeds.
    Christianity teaches salvation from sin through Jesus.

    Islam means: "Submission." A Muslim is one who submits.
    There are 5 obligitory daily prayers. Islam is the second largest religion in the world after Christianity and has the fastest-growing body of believers.
    Muslims are not, and never have been, a single homogenous constituency. An 'open' view of Islam does not generalise about all Muslims everywhere, yet it remains committed to a critical analysis of the political uses and abuses of all religions.

    Essential message of the Qur'an: The one true God is the creator of all the world. He is most generous, sending humankind prophets with written messages (scriptures) to teach them what is required for salvation.
    Humans are rebellious; they reject or ignore this message and are a law unto themselves. Humankind should be mindful for, at the end of all time, all will return to God for the Day Of Judgement.
    Elsewhere, the Qur'an narrates the pleasures of paradise for those who remain on the straight path and the punishments of hell for those who do not.

    Reference: World Religions, a source book 2003, Flame Tree Publishing UK
    good notes
    i'm your huckleberry - Doc

  8. #113
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    Default More from Eckhart Tolle

    Contemporary spiritual teacher, Eckhart Tolle speaks:

    "... So many people are so trapped in this continual mental noise that absorbs their whole attention all the time. Every thought absorbs their attention. They are run by mental abstractions, concepts, thoughts. Look at your own mind. It's everyone's responsibility to become aware of their conditioned mental processes... how you react in everyday situations, what kind of thoughts go through your head. It's good not to amplify the negativity that you see around you in the world by reacting to it. You have to be very much aware of what your mind is doing. So observe your own mind.

    Be there as the witness of your own mind so that the witnessing dimension, which is awareness, or presence, grows. You are not your thought processes. Your fears, doubts, angers, jealousies, resentments, all contribute to your life creation and the collective consciousness. It's up to you to step out of the old way of thinking.

    The voice in the head is the conditioned thinking processes. What the voice says is conditioned by your past, your childhood, your upbringing, by the surrounding culture. All those things condition your thought processes. When the awakening process begins, a lot of the old voices in the head, the old thoughts, still come up. And the essential thing is to recognize them as conditioned thought processes and not identify with them.

    Realize it's the voice in the head that's doing it and then you can allow it, and say: "OK. There's an old thought," and allow it to be there and you be the awareness behind the thought. Watch the voice in the head telling you this or that, interpreting events or people according to your old conditioning programming; judging someone to your old conditioning and prejudices.

    The fastest way you can gradually go beyond the conditioned thought processes is simply to be there as the witness. You don't need to react to them, or say: "Go away, I don't want to be thinking this." That doesn't work. It only gives the old thoughts more energy.

    The vital thing is, as much as possible, be aware of what your mind is saying and realize that only a small part of the consciousness, the totality of consciousness that you are, many people don't know that yet. They are totally one with the voice. They are the voice. They are so identified with every thought that comes, there's no space between them and the thought..."

    Words spoken by Eckhart Tolle, 2008
    Last edited by Katweezel; March 16th, 2009 at 06:39 AM.
    Dogma schmogma

  9. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katweezel View Post
    Contemporary spiritual teacher, Eckhart Tolle speaks:

    "... So many people are so trapped in this continual mental noise that absorbs their whole attention all the time. Every thought absorbs their attention. They are run by mental abstractions, concepts, thoughts. Look at your own mind. It's everyone's responsibility to become aware of their conditioned mental processes... how you react in everyday situations, what kind of thoughts go through your head. It's good not to amplify the negativity that you see around you in the world by reacting to it. You have to be very much aware of what your mind is doing. So observe your own mind.

    Be there as the witness of your own mind so that the witnessing dimension, which is awareness, or prescence, grows. You are not your thought processes. Your fears, doubts, angers, jealousies, resentments, all contribute to your life creation and the collective consciousness. It's up to you to step out of the old way of thinking.

    The voice in the head is the conditioned thinking processes. What the voice says is conditioned by your past, your childhood, your upbringing, by the surrounding culture. All those things condition your thought processes. When the awakening process begins, a lot of the old voices in the head, the old thoughts, still come up. And the essential thing is to recognize them as conditioned thought processes and not identify with them.

    Realize it's the voice in the head that's doing it and then you can allow it, and say: "OK. There's an old thought," and allow it to be there and you be the awareness behind the thought. Watch the voice in the head telling you this or that, interpreting events or people according to your old conditioning programming; judging someone to your old conditioning and prejudices.

    The fastest way you can gradually go beyond the conditioned thought processes is simply to be there as the witness. You don't need to react to them, or say: "Go away, I don't want to be thinking this." That doesn't work. It only gives the old thoughts more energy.

    The vital thing is, as much as possible, be aware of what your mind is saying and realize that only a small part of the consciousness, the totality of consciousness that you are, many people don't know that yet. They are totally one with the voice. They are the voice. They are so identified with every thought that comes, there's no space between them and the thought..."

    Words spoken by Eckhart Tolle, 2008
    There is not just an awareness of my thoughts--there is even an awareness of my awareness. But the awareness that I most prize is the awareness of what is above, of what transcends, and that is an awareness of God, an awareness born of the inmost reality of my being, an awareness without which there would be no meaning to my existence except in some far off, dead echo reverberating in my thoughts but far removed from my experience, a hope yet to be attained. az
    Aslan 11/1/90 - 6/15/10 Stormy 1/22/95 -8/23/10
    “There are not one hundred people in the United States who hate The Catholic Church,
    but there are millions who hate what they wrongly perceive the Catholic Church to be.”
    Bishop Fulton J. Sheen

    “It takes a very long time to become young.” Pablo Picasso

  10. #115

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    Quote Originally Posted by aslan View Post
    There is not just an awareness of my thoughts--there is even an awareness of my awareness. But the awareness that I most prize is the awareness of what is above, of what transcends, and that is an awareness of God, an awareness born of the inmost reality of my being, an awareness without which there would be no meaning to my existence except in some far off, dead echo reverberating in my thoughts but far removed from my experience, a hope yet to be attained. az
    And all else is....nothing. zg
    "The dogs bark but the caravan moves on."
    .....................The Zengrifter Interview (PDF) |
    The Zengrifter / James Grosjean Reputation Debate
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    “Truth, like gold, is obtained not by growth, but by washing away all that is not gold.” — Leo Tolstoy........
    "Is everything a conspiracy? No, just the important stuff." ZG

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    Default Rapture

    Quote Originally Posted by zengrifter View Post
    And all else is....nothing. zg
    Which means: Hallelujah brothers! The RAPTURE is here, now. Enjoy.
    Dogma schmogma

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    Quote Originally Posted by Katweezel View Post
    Which means: Hallelujah brothers! The RAPTURE is here, now. Enjoy.
    Rapture is a misinterpretation of the Bible referring to the time when Jesus returns at the end of the world to close up shop. Naturally, anyone who has not yet died will have to enter their destiny, heaven or hell, directly. The term "rapture" refers to that passage in the Bible that relates to the elect being caught up in the clouds with Jesus, a sort of "Go directly to heaven", while the bad people get a "Go directly to hell, do not collect $200 when you pass Go." Rapture, however, in the sense of religious ectasy has long been an experience of mystics in the Christian tradition.
    Aslan 11/1/90 - 6/15/10 Stormy 1/22/95 -8/23/10
    “There are not one hundred people in the United States who hate The Catholic Church,
    but there are millions who hate what they wrongly perceive the Catholic Church to be.”
    Bishop Fulton J. Sheen

    “It takes a very long time to become young.” Pablo Picasso

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    Quote Originally Posted by aslan View Post
    Rapture is a misinterpretation of the Bible referring to the time when Jesus returns at the end of the world to close up shop. Naturally, anyone who has not yet died will have to enter their destiny, heaven or hell, directly. The term "rapture" refers to that passage in the Bible that relates to the elect being caught up in the clouds with Jesus, a sort of "Go directly to heaven", while the bad people get a "Go directly to hell, do not collect $200 when you pass Go." Rapture, however, in the sense of religious ectasy has long been an experience of mystics in the Christian tradition.
    You speak of a misinterpretation of the bible here. What makes yours right? The more that I studied biblical texts the more I realized that reading a text necessarily invoves interpretating a text. When I first started reading these biblical texts some might say I had too simple a way of reading them. I thought the the point of reading a text was to let it speak for itself, to uncover the meaning inherent to its words. The reality I found was nothing like that.If texts could speak for themselves, then everyone reading them would openly and honestly reading them would agree on what they say. But interpretations of these texts are many and people in fact do not agree on what they say. This is obviously true in scripture, just look at the hundreds or even thousands of ways people interpret the book of Revelation. Or consider the different Christian denominations, filled with intelligent well meaning people who base their views of how the church should be organized and function on the bible, yet all of them come to radically different conclusions. (Baptists, Pentacostals, Presbyterians, Roman Catholics, even Appalachian Snake Handlers)

    How many times have there been arguments or debates in which the bible is invoked and someone quotes an interpretation of scripture that leaves you scratching your head. You think, how did they come up with that? You hear this all the time with discussions on homosexuality, women in the church, abortion, divorce even foreign policy, with both sides quoting the same bible. Is this because some people are more willful or less intelligent than others and can't understand what the text plainly says? Surely not, surely the texts of the New Testament are not just collections of words whose meaning is obvious to any reader. Surely these texts have to be interpreted to make sense, rather than just simply read as if they can divulge there meanings without the process of interpretation. Texts do not simply reveal their own meanings to honest inquirers.

    Texts are interpreted, and they are interpreted (just as they were written) by living breathing human beings, who can make sense of them only by explaining them in light of their own knowledge, then processing their meaning, putting the words of them in other words. " In other words" since this is the case the only conclusion that can be drawn is, lack of certainity is not of a divine hand. Only man can cause this lack of understanding, due to the fact its man trying to understand man. If the God of the bible is perfect, there seems to be many interpretations of what that is. There are scholars of all denominations of christianity, not to mention the many other religions as well that can't come together on what is the absolute word of God. An intelligent being of logic may interpret this as a lack of proof of an omnipotent being, and yes indeed I do.

  14. #119
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    Default I'm also a reincarnationist, like him

    Quote Originally Posted by aslan View Post
    Rapture is a misinterpretation of the Bible referring to the time when Jesus returns at the end of the world to close up shop. Naturally, anyone who has not yet died will have to enter their destiny, heaven or hell, directly. The term "rapture" refers to that passage in the Bible that relates to the elect being caught up in the clouds with Jesus, a sort of "Go directly to heaven", while the bad people get a "Go directly to hell, do not collect $200 when you pass Go." Rapture, however, in the sense of religious ectasy has long been an experience of mystics in the Christian tradition.
    After what happened to Jesus last time he was here, I could imagine he may not be in a hurry to get back here. Mel Gibson made us aware of how skin peels off flesh, and blood oozes. Exactly when is Jesus returning? Did he say? Where has he been for the last 2000 years? We certainly could have used his help in 1914, 1929 and again around 1939; but no show. Is he waiting forever, or for more important events than world-wide calamities?

    You seem to be suggesting that only heaven or hell are the only places left for humans to go, on their demise. Didn't someone cook up the idea of a third place - was it purgatory, a sort of resting place or something? These ideas are fine if that is the fear-based ancient superstitious stuff someone believes in. If someone wants to buy that stuff, good for them.

    The idea of Jesus returning suggests reincarnation. Now wasn't that idea taken out by catholic bible revisionists? Jesus, the reincarnationist?
    Dogma schmogma

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    Quote Originally Posted by Katweezel View Post
    After what happened to Jesus last time he was here, I could imagine he may not be in a hurry to get back here. Mel Gibson made us aware of how skin peels off flesh, and blood oozes. Exactly when is Jesus returning? Did he say? Where has he been for the last 2000 years? We certainly could have used his help in 1914, 1929 and again around 1939; but no show. Is he waiting forever, or for more important events than world-wide calamities?

    You seem to be suggesting that only heaven or hell are the only places left for humans to go, on their demise. Didn't someone cook up the idea of a third place - was it purgatory, a sort of resting place or something? These ideas are fine if that is the fear-based ancient superstitious stuff someone believes in. If someone wants to buy that stuff, good for them.

    The idea of Jesus returning suggests reincarnation. Now wasn't that idea taken out by catholic bible revisionists? Jesus, the reincarnationist?
    Actually, Jesus' return is indicative of the fact that there is life after death, not reincarnation. Jesus has been living in another dimension, one we call heaven for want of a better word, and meaning the place where God resides with his angels and saints. Because God gave man free will, He purposely does not try to force His ways on man, but allows man to experience the God-like ability to choose his own destiny. He will intervene from time to time as He sees necessary in His omniscience, and sometimes, I am persuaded, in response to our petitions.

    On this idea of purgatory, it comes from the thought that few if any are pure enough upon death to enter the realm of the Almighty. Puragtory, then, is like the pathway one follows toward the Divine Presence. It begins right here on earth. It is the pathway that all the ancients have searched for. It is the pathway that all the sages and gurus throughout the history of the world have pointed to. Only in Christianity is that pathway made absolutely clear. If a guru were to come to Christianity, he would find all the answers to all the questions he ever had, and he would abridge some of the answers he thought he already had. Christianity is not a religion that should be considered foreign to Hinduism, or Buddhism or any of the other ancient wisdoms--it should be considered the fulfillment of their highest aspirations. I am sorry it is so misunderstood.
    Aslan 11/1/90 - 6/15/10 Stormy 1/22/95 -8/23/10
    “There are not one hundred people in the United States who hate The Catholic Church,
    but there are millions who hate what they wrongly perceive the Catholic Church to be.”
    Bishop Fulton J. Sheen

    “It takes a very long time to become young.” Pablo Picasso

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