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Thread: Philosophers and Philosophy

  1. #91

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    Quote Originally Posted by aslan View Post
    Maybe, there's nothing to get.
    You got it! zg
    "The dogs bark but the caravan moves on."
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    The Zengrifter / James Grosjean Reputation Debate
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    “Truth, like gold, is obtained not by growth, but by washing away all that is not gold.” — Leo Tolstoy........
    "Is everything a conspiracy? No, just the important stuff." ZG

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    Quote Originally Posted by Katweezel View Post
    Hey Ace157, I hope you caught Maz's fine piece on the World Peace thread. Both threads vitally concern world issues and peace. Philosophy is a vital ingredient. I have been trying to come to terms with one god. I believe there is a major religion that has 3 gods; god as father, god as son, and god as mother. If that is true, it is well beyond me. There goes a prime example for The Theatre of The Absurd's Hall of Fame...
    nah, i didnt catch it, but i'll check it out for sure....

    if you were referring to Christianity, its actually not three gods, it 3 persons (from latin "persona" meaning mask) in one being (don't remember the greek or latin off the top of my head)
    i'm your huckleberry - Doc

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    Default Comments on 'God' from "Teachings of Abraham"

    Quote Originally Posted by ace157 View Post
    nah, i didnt catch it, but i'll check it out for sure....

    if you were referring to Christianity, its actually not three gods, it 3 persons (from latin "persona" meaning mask) in one being (don't remember the greek or latin off the top of my head)
    Question from workshop attendee:
    "Is there such a thing as a compassionate God, who listens to us and gives us what we ask for, even if we don't vibrate sometimes, with our desires. Or are we really on our own and 100% responsible for ourselves? In other words, do we have to be happy to begin with, or can we ask for help when we can't find a thought to help us feel better? Is there an entity called God that thinks and makes decisions, or is it all just us all together from which God is made?

    Abrahams' answer: "That which Man calls God is very different from Man's image of God, because God has made Man that God and now Man has been making God in Man's image. In other words, Man forms a perception of something and then tries to make everything fit into that, and there is tremendous distortion in the process. You are accurate when you feel that you are that which is God, both from your physical perspective and your non-physical perspective. The combination of you and You and all of the rest of us is what God is becoming. God is consciousness that is expanding.

    Sometimes humans feel unsettled about that because there are so many who have been happier seeing God as just an exaggerated version of man. Someone very much like Man but bigger and hopefully smarter, and with all of the answers. So, in the process of making that image of God, Man has subverted his own image of self. In other words, he has humbled himself by making this distinction of this superior God which makes him be an inferior mortal. On that basis, Man has separated himself from that which is God, which is sort of a self-fulfilling prophecy, isn't it...

    People have said to us, in gatherings such as this: "Abraham, you have disrupted my image of God." Some have even said: "Abraham, you do not talk of God much, and I want to ask you why that is." And we would say: "We don't talk of anything other than what you call God. In other words, we are that energy, you are that energy."

    We are all in this together but we certainly acknowledge that it is not easy to see the big picture from the physical format. In other words, when you - through your appreciation - of another, or a flower, for example, find a vibration that puts you into alignment with that which is Source Energy, so that you are that Energy, then there is no separation between that Energy which is God and who you are in that moment. Then you have knowledge of that, in other words. Under those conditions, you don't question so much.

    Usually when people are questioning their relationship with God, then they have gotten themselves into a vibrational quagmire where they are far from the vibration of the Energy which is that; and it's quite interesting. Do you know that the majority of prayers that are offered from physical humans are offered from a place of utter disconnection of that which they are hoping to receive? So Man, in his efforts to pray and receive guidance, actually enhances his separation between who he really is and the thing he is reaching for.

    Jerry and Esther have a dear friend who has been a Minister of more than one church, of different denominations, and he says to his congregation on a regular basis: "I used to pray to God but He was always out to lunch."
    And we say you must be in the vibrational alignment before you know that which you are reaching for. And when you are in vibrational alignment, a lack of separation is something that you know viscerally, you know vibrationally, not so much intellectually. And then of course, to be in synch with that Energy and feel Infinite Intelligence pouring through you, in time you have all answers to all questions.

    And the first question we want you to ask is: "Who am I?" And our answer is" "You are God." And the next question we want to hear from you is: "How am I doing?" And the answer we want you to hear is that you are doing exceptionally well, you are right on track. The next question we want you to ask is: "How can my life be better?" And we say, seek things that feel good to you when you focus upon them. And the next question we want you to ask is: "What will come next?" And the answer is, whatever it is that you choose.

    And the next question we want you to ask is: "Will you not choose for me?" And the answer is we are choosing with you but we are not choosing for you. And when you are in vibrational alignment with that which is us, the choices that we make together are those choices that we all intended when you made the decision to come forth into this physical body to begin with. It's closing the gap, solving the separation; becoming one with who you are, in your joyous endeavour. And then, being the God in physical form that is natural for you.

    But words don't teach. You have to have your own personal experience in order to have that knowing, and that's why every word that's uttered through Esther that is offered from us and now translated by you to help others understand that you are the creators of your own realities. You are the God that is the creator of worlds you see. Don't be humble and try to make yourself apart from that. Embrace it and accept it and ride that wave. YES!"

    Footnote: "Abraham is a family of Non-Physical Beings natually assembled by our powerful intention to remind you, our physical extensions, of the Laws of the Universe that govern all things. It is our intention to help you remember that you are extensions of Source Energy; that you are blessed, loved Beings; and that you have come forth into this physical time-space-reality to joyously create..."
    Dogma schmogma

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    ^^ two thumbs up Katweezel
    i'm your huckleberry - Doc

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    Quote Originally Posted by Katweezel View Post
    And the first question we want you to ask is: "Who am I?" And our answer is" "You are God."
    I know God, God is a friend of mine, and you Katweezel, are no God.
    Aslan 11/1/90 - 6/15/10 Stormy 1/22/95 -8/23/10
    “There are not one hundred people in the United States who hate The Catholic Church,
    but there are millions who hate what they wrongly perceive the Catholic Church to be.”
    Bishop Fulton J. Sheen

    “It takes a very long time to become young.” Pablo Picasso

  6. #96

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    Quote Originally Posted by aslan View Post
    I know God, God is a friend of mine, and you Katweezel, are no God.
    "He IS it, and she is it, and you are it, and so is that,
    and they are it, and that is it, and we are it, and that is that!"

    --Lord Chesterton (from Alan Watts, 'This Is It!')
    "The dogs bark but the caravan moves on."
    .....................The Zengrifter Interview (PDF) |
    The Zengrifter / James Grosjean Reputation Debate
    -----------------------------------------
    “Truth, like gold, is obtained not by growth, but by washing away all that is not gold.” — Leo Tolstoy........
    "Is everything a conspiracy? No, just the important stuff." ZG

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    Quote Originally Posted by zengrifter View Post
    "He IS it, and she is it, and you are it, and so is that,
    and they are it, and that is it, and we are it, and that is that!"

    --Lord Chesterton (from Alan Watts, 'This Is It!')
    He ISN'T it, and she isn't it, and you aren't it, and so is that (not it), and they aren't it, and that isn't it, and that is that! (from Aslan, 'This Isn't It!')
    Aslan 11/1/90 - 6/15/10 Stormy 1/22/95 -8/23/10
    “There are not one hundred people in the United States who hate The Catholic Church,
    but there are millions who hate what they wrongly perceive the Catholic Church to be.”
    Bishop Fulton J. Sheen

    “It takes a very long time to become young.” Pablo Picasso

  8. #98

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    Quote Originally Posted by aslan View Post
    He ISN'T it, and she isn't it, and you aren't it, and so is that (not it), and they aren't it, and that isn't it, and that is that! (from Aslan, 'This Isn't It!')
    You crack me up! LOL zg
    "The dogs bark but the caravan moves on."
    .....................The Zengrifter Interview (PDF) |
    The Zengrifter / James Grosjean Reputation Debate
    -----------------------------------------
    “Truth, like gold, is obtained not by growth, but by washing away all that is not gold.” — Leo Tolstoy........
    "Is everything a conspiracy? No, just the important stuff." ZG

  9. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by ace157 View Post
    What are everyone's favorite thinkers, thoughts, ideas, principles... etc. I apologize if this is already a thread, but i had to start it ... Phil major :-D

    Personally i'm a fan of Kant, my grad school interests are philosophy of religion, existentialism, philosophy of mathematics.

    Go figure... a blackjack player interested in philosophy of mathematics ... i have heard that some graduate programs actually require phil majors to take a doctorate level math class or a game theory class to obtain a PhD in philosophy.
    A fan of Kant huh, interesting. Immanuel Kant believed for a time that all the planets were populated and that these populations improved with character the farther away they were. But even while beginning from this rather limited cosmic base he was able to make convincing arguments against any theistic presentation that depended on reason. He overthrew the cosmological proof of God, which suggested that one's own existence must posit another necessary existance, by saying that it only restated the onological argument. And he undid the ontological argument by challenging the simpleminded notion that if God can be conceived as an idea, or stated as a predicate, he must therefore possess the quality of existence. The funny thing about this idea is it gets overthrown in such simple ways. There is an example of this as a child asks a question to her mother in the novel Moon Tiger. The dialogue goes like this: "Are there dragons? The mother answers "no". "have there ever been" asks the child. "All the evidence is to the contrary" says the mother. The child answers back, "But if there is a word dragon, then once there must have been dragons."

    The fact that there are no dragons and never were makes the parrallel argument here very easy. It is so easy to just say what you think, but extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence to take it to a level of proof or justifiable theory. As science has evolved, many great thinkers, evolve as just great dreamers. I think its important to read both sides, but when the evidence is weighed, you cannot let the bias of want effect the scale of truth.

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    What you say is true maz, however reason must indeed make room for faith either sooner or later. Even the most core principles of science had to begin with an idea that someone believed in. If Newton (in his research) were to discover that gravity did not exist would he have stopped there? of course not, he had a point to prove and would not rest until he had evidence to do so, even if contrary evidence was found prior.

    anyway, here are some final notes on Nietzsche:
    He is Lutheran and at the same time the biggest and harshest critic of Christianity. He DID NOT want to write to be sensational, but to address a point. I am of the understanding that he believed what he was writing but only because doing so added strength to his arguments. He depicts both science and religion as "wholesale slaughter" both trying to vindicate the cruel intentions of man. His quest of an ubermench or "overman" is one that is beyond faith and reason and good and evil and simply does things because it is in his nature it is completely arbitrary that perceive his actions to be "good." Nietzsche's fantasizes over a world that is capable or proper ethical bearing without any religious association. I do not believe this is possible, however i will not pick religious side, i just think that a group that finds a common faith or belief now becomes an individual group rather than a group of individuals.

    I'll have a new topic sometime this weekend or on monday at the latest, thanks for the discussions guys :-D
    i'm your huckleberry - Doc

  11. #101

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    Quote Originally Posted by MAZ View Post
    The fact that there are no dragons and never were...
    But there were and are - they are the historical and mythological basis for REPTILIANS aka 'dragon people'. zg
    "The dogs bark but the caravan moves on."
    .....................The Zengrifter Interview (PDF) |
    The Zengrifter / James Grosjean Reputation Debate
    -----------------------------------------
    “Truth, like gold, is obtained not by growth, but by washing away all that is not gold.” — Leo Tolstoy........
    "Is everything a conspiracy? No, just the important stuff." ZG

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    Default Eckhart Tolle on religion

    Spirituality and Religion
    Eckhart Tolle: "What is the role of the established religions in the arising of the new consciousness?
    Many people are already aware of the difference between spirituality and religion. They realize that having a belief system - a set of thoughts that you regard as the absolute truth - does not make you spiritual, no matter what the nature of those beliefs is. In fact, the more you make your thoughts (beliefs) into your identity, the more cut off you are from the spiritual dimension within yourself.

    Many 'religious' people are stuck at that level. They equate truth with thoughts, and as they are completely identified with thought (their mind) they claim to be in sole possession of the truth in an unconscious attempt to protect their identity. They don't realize the limitations of thought. Unless you believe (think) exactly as they do, you are wrong in their eyes, and in the not-too-distant past, they would have felt justified in killing you for that. And some still do, even now.

    The new spirituality, the transformation of consciousness, is arising to a large extent outside of the structures of the existing institutionalized religions. There were always pockets of spirituality even in the mind-dominated religions, although the institutionalized hierarchies felt threatened by them and often tried to suppress them. A large-scale opening of spirituality outside of the religious structures is an entirely new development. In the past, this would have been inconceivable, especially in the West, the most mind-dominated of all cultures, where the Christian church had a virtual franchise on spirituality.

    You couldn't just stand up and give a spiritual talk or publish a spiritual book unless you were sanctioned by the church, and if you were not, they would quickly silence you. But now, even within certain churches and religions, there are signs of change. It is heartwarming, and one is grateful for even the slightest signs of openess, such as Pope John Paul II visiting a mosque as well as a synagogue..."
    from Eckhart Tolle, A New Earth
    Dogma schmogma

  13. #103

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    "The dogs bark but the caravan moves on."
    .....................The Zengrifter Interview (PDF) |
    The Zengrifter / James Grosjean Reputation Debate
    -----------------------------------------
    “Truth, like gold, is obtained not by growth, but by washing away all that is not gold.” — Leo Tolstoy........
    "Is everything a conspiracy? No, just the important stuff." ZG

  14. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katweezel View Post
    Spirituality and Religion
    Eckhart Tolle: "What is the role of the established religions in the arising of the new consciousness?
    Many people are already aware of the difference between spirituality and religion. They realize that having a belief system - a set of thoughts that you regard as the absolute truth - does not make you spiritual, no matter what the nature of those beliefs is. In fact, the more you make your thoughts (beliefs) into your identity, the more cut off you are from the spiritual dimension within yourself.

    Many 'religious' people are stuck at that level. They equate truth with thoughts, and as they are completely identified with thought (their mind) they claim to be in sole possession of the truth in an unconscious attempt to protect their identity. They don't realize the limitations of thought. Unless you believe (think) exactly as they do, you are wrong in their eyes, and in the not-too-distant past, they would have felt justified in killing you for that. And some still do, even now.

    The new spirituality, the transformation of consciousness, is arising to a large extent outside of the structures of the existing institutionalized religions. There were always pockets of spirituality even in the mind-dominated religions, although the institutionalized hierarchies felt threatened by them and often tried to suppress them. A large-scale opening of spirituality outside of the religious structures is an entirely new development. In the past, this would have been inconceivable, especially in the West, the most mind-dominated of all cultures, where the Christian church had a virtual franchise on spirituality.

    You couldn't just stand up and give a spiritual talk or publish a spiritual book unless you were sanctioned by the church, and if you were not, they would quickly silence you. But now, even within certain churches and religions, there are signs of change. It is heartwarming, and one is grateful for even the slightest signs of openess, such as Pope John Paul II visiting a mosque as well as a synagogue..."
    from Eckhart Tolle, A New Earth
    Very good excerpt. The spiritual dimension can be lost when religion becomes totally mind dominated.

    There have always been two threads running through my religion, Catholicism, namely, the belief system, which consists of the tenets of the faith, the main ones reduced to what we call the Credo, or Creed, plus a number of teachings emanating from the teachings of Christ, its founder, and the subsequent leaders of His church, and a certain spirituality, ushered in on day one by the descent of the Holy Spirit on the first Pentacost, marking the beginning of the Catholic Faith. The belief system is very important to the religion because the religion itself is built around the person of its founder, Jesus Christ, and His claim to being the second person of the Holy Trinity, that is, to being God Incarnate. Therefore, it consists in part in the facts surrounding His historical presence on the earth, His life, death and resurrection. It also emcompasses His teachings and the teachings of His followers, especially the subsequent leaders of His church, which are mainly a fleshing out of His original teachings. The belief system or side of Catholicism is important because it represents objective truth to the adherent of Catholicism.

    The spiritual side of Catholicism began as I mentioned before on the first day of the church with the descent of the Holy Spirit on the followers of Jesus on Pentacost Sunday. It was marked by some strange goings on, people suddenly speaking in unknown tongues, people preaching the gospel of Jesus Christ and being understood by others each in his own language, ecstacies experienced by people when hands were laid upon them to confer the Holy Spirit of God to them, and spontaneous healings following the laying on of hands. This spiritual experience continued in church meetings in which oftentimes church menbers would receive revelations from God in the form of prophecies and words of knowledge as they prayed "in the spirit." Even Paul reports being taken up into the third heaven as he prayed, which in those days was the understanding of the spiritual realm, which existed above the sky (first heaven) and stars (outer space or second heaven) in the thinking of ancient times. Various beliefs began to arise that were not consistent with the truth revealed by Jesus and so it became recognized that the spiritual experience of the early Christians was a subjective experience, and though generally authentic, could be given to various interpretations and even given to spiritual influences that were not of God. As you may know, in Christian teaching, not everything spiritual is good, as witnessed by the belief in dark spiritual forces associated with the fallen angels. Therefore, the spiritual side of Catholicism has always been reined in as it were by measuring it against the objective belief system side, that is, what is considered revealed and therefore immutable.

    So really you can see that there are two aspects to Christianity in general and that they work in tandem, the belief side as taught by Christ serving to rein in and define the spiritual side. Christianity is therefore not a strictly personal journey that can be taken on one's own with no boundaries, but it does have its personal and spiritual side, carefully circumscribed by the authentic teachings of its founder.
    Aslan 11/1/90 - 6/15/10 Stormy 1/22/95 -8/23/10
    “There are not one hundred people in the United States who hate The Catholic Church,
    but there are millions who hate what they wrongly perceive the Catholic Church to be.”
    Bishop Fulton J. Sheen

    “It takes a very long time to become young.” Pablo Picasso

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    Quote Originally Posted by zengrifter View Post
    You crack me up! LOL zg
    shanti shanti shanti

    "Streets that follow like a tedious argument
    Of insidious intent
    To lead you to an overwhelming question …
    Oh, do not ask, “What is [IT]?”
    Let us go and make our visit."

    I have stomach indigestion,
    Not quite up to face the question
    Of a thousand plodding feet,
    As they beat their note upon the street
    And then are gone.

    But we shall go there,
    "You and I,
    When the evening is spread out against the sky
    Like a patient" waking from his sleep
    Feeling the dull edge of pain
    Of surgeon's knife
    As it begins to creep
    Slowly into consciousness.

    Then you shall begin to know
    What is it, what is it
    What words can never formulate
    Nor actions quite anticipate
    The it, the res, the thing, the item
    That plummets ad infinitum
    Across a grey and mournful sky
    In fiery blaze like a screeching cry

    Shanti! Shanti! Shanti!

    And whither it goes
    No one knows
    And when it returns
    No one knows
    But it goes as it will
    And returns ever still
    While we yearn to discern
    The whisper of its breath
    What it knows
    What it wills
    What it wants us to learn
    Of life, and love, and our imminent death.

    Avanti! Avanti! Avanti tutta!
    Aslan 11/1/90 - 6/15/10 Stormy 1/22/95 -8/23/10
    “There are not one hundred people in the United States who hate The Catholic Church,
    but there are millions who hate what they wrongly perceive the Catholic Church to be.”
    Bishop Fulton J. Sheen

    “It takes a very long time to become young.” Pablo Picasso

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