+ Reply to Thread
Page 6 of 13 FirstFirst 1234567891011 ... LastLast
Results 76 to 90 of 181

Thread: Philosophers and Philosophy

  1. #76
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    IL
    Posts
    32

    Default

    u got the dream thing right ( i believe) and yes, the drugs r a crutch, but nonethless history wouldn't be the same w/o them, look at the VanGoughs and Hemmingways that wouldn't b nearly the same w/o their "crutches"

    yes, the "overman" is an excellent point. and i agree with you about the religious experience, but Neitzsche fixes the extremes in the end hinting that a balance is needed to find the truth as opposed to what one believes to be the truth. (of course Will James says the truth is pragmatic in the sense that it is only true if it is "useful" for the person defining it)

    and your dead on, the experience gives meaning to the enlightenment ... because (i forget who said it) but a short gifted life is worth much less than a long and painful life because the long life is vivid and the short life doesn't allow for anything to be learned

    ur german was good enough for me lol

    here's a big monkey wrench to throw in to Neitzsche; he was a VERY religious man, but he knew his faith so well he began to pick it apart because he understood its weaknesses
    i'm your huckleberry - Doc

  2. #77
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    posting from Bethesda, MD
    Posts
    13,912

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ace157 View Post

    here's a big monkey wrench to throw in to Neitzsche; he was a VERY religious man, but he knew his faith so well he began to pick it apart because he understood its weaknesses
    Go figure!
    Aslan 11/1/90 - 6/15/10 Stormy 1/22/95 -8/23/10
    “There are not one hundred people in the United States who hate The Catholic Church,
    but there are millions who hate what they wrongly perceive the Catholic Church to be.”
    Bishop Fulton J. Sheen

    “It takes a very long time to become young.” Pablo Picasso

  3. #78
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    posting from Bethesda, MD
    Posts
    13,912

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ace157 View Post
    u got the dream thing right ( i believe) and yes, the drugs r a crutch, but nonethless history wouldn't be the same w/o them, look at the VanGoughs and Hemmingways that wouldn't b nearly the same w/o their "crutches"

    yes, the "overman" is an excellent point. and i agree with you about the religious experience, but Neitzsche fixes the extremes in the end hinting that a balance is needed to find the truth as opposed to what one believes to be the truth. (of course Will James says the truth is pragmatic in the sense that it is only true if it is "useful" for the person defining it)

    and your dead on, the experience gives meaning to the enlightenment ... because (i forget who said it) but a short gifted life is worth much less than a long and painful life because the long life is vivid and the short life doesn't allow for anything to be learned

    ur german was good enough for me lol

    here's a big monkey wrench to throw in to Neitzsche; he was a VERY religious man, but he knew his faith so well he began to pick it apart because he understood its weaknesses
    Yes, I understand the value of crutches, but it's something like steroid use in major league baseball. More records (truth/creativity/power) have been set with them than without them, but it has had an overall bad effect on major league baseball, placing results above regard for human life and fair play. The decision to go forward without them is the right one. Similarly, a world without intoxicant-based creativity is a better one as well.
    Last edited by aslan; February 24th, 2009 at 12:32 AM.
    Aslan 11/1/90 - 6/15/10 Stormy 1/22/95 -8/23/10
    “There are not one hundred people in the United States who hate The Catholic Church,
    but there are millions who hate what they wrongly perceive the Catholic Church to be.”
    Bishop Fulton J. Sheen

    “It takes a very long time to become young.” Pablo Picasso

  4. #79
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Posts
    1,050

    Default

    i completely bombed out. i mean i don't get much out of Nietzsche's "the birth of tragedy". well, going by what little i read of it.
    i read up a little on Nietzsche. i like that he may have ran to the protection of a donkey being flogged, hugging it to protect it. apparently that was when he went 'nuts'.
    i read up some on Apollo and Dionysus. kind of drew a blank there as well. i found it odd that Nietzsche relates Dionysus and the followers of Dionysus to music. while wikipedia claims Apollo is the God of "music, poetry and oracles"
    so there is an awful lot to know about these Greek god's and all, very extensive and convoluted, hard to get a handle on.
    well i found out how come there is gold in some creek or river in Greece. seems King Midas did a favor for i think it was Dionysus's human 'foster' dad who had disappeared while drunk and lost. King Midas was kind to him. so Dionysus granted Midas a wish, the wish Midas chose being the golden touch. problem King Midas had with that was he found it difficult to eat and drink. so Dionysus lets King Midas out of his wish and tells him to wash in this river and he'll be free of his wish.
    so King Midas baths in the river and the wish washes off, turning the sand of the river to gold.
    it might be a good idea to try and find that river.
    oh, yeah Dionysus was born of a human mother, but Zeus his dad had this goddess lover as well. she was jealous of Zeus's human lady friend who was pregnant of Dionysus. so Zeus decides to remove Dionysus from his mother's womb, and carry the fetus of Dionysus in his thigh until he was ready to come into the world.
    ole Apollo, his mom had to give birth to him on a floating island where a jealous goddess banned his mom. Zeus was his dad as well, lol. Zeus apparently got around. Apollo was active in the Trojan war, shooting poison arrows at the Greeks encampment. he was apparently bisexual. so at that point in my reading i pretty much lost interest and suspended my reading.
    still i don't really get the philosophy of Nietzsche's "the birth of tragedy".
    just doesn't compute, lol.
    best regards,
    mr fr0g MMOA honorary predator
    STRENGTH - HONOR - HEART
    that's my take on it your mileage may vary.
    for senior citizen fuzzy count click link:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DrTiP4ZIUfI

  5. #80
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    posting from Bethesda, MD
    Posts
    13,912

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by sagefr0g View Post
    still i don't really get the philosophy of Nietzsche's "the birth of tragedy".
    just doesn't compute, lol.
    Maybe, there's nothing to get.
    Aslan 11/1/90 - 6/15/10 Stormy 1/22/95 -8/23/10
    “There are not one hundred people in the United States who hate The Catholic Church,
    but there are millions who hate what they wrongly perceive the Catholic Church to be.”
    Bishop Fulton J. Sheen

    “It takes a very long time to become young.” Pablo Picasso

  6. #81
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    IL
    Posts
    32

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by sagefr0g View Post
    while wikipedia claims Apollo is the God of "music, poetry and oracles"
    so there is an awful lot to know about these Greek god's and all, very extensive and convoluted, hard to get a handle on.
    now you see the cycle... Apollo is often cited as a God of music, but Neitzsche talks about how the cycle started with Apollo needing inspiration which came from his benevolence as an olympian and after Apollo, then Dionysus is often seen as the god of "the arts"
    i'm your huckleberry - Doc

  7. #82
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Posts
    1,050

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by aslan View Post
    Maybe, there's nothing to get.
    sort of like that progression stuff for blackjack, portfolio theory and value at risk (VAR) in the financial system?
    best regards,
    mr fr0g MMOA honorary predator
    STRENGTH - HONOR - HEART
    that's my take on it your mileage may vary.
    for senior citizen fuzzy count click link:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DrTiP4ZIUfI

  8. #83
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Posts
    1,050

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ace157 View Post
    now you see the cycle... Apollo is often cited as a God of music, but Neitzsche talks about how the cycle started with Apollo needing inspiration which came from his benevolence as an olympian and after Apollo, then Dionysus is often seen as the god of "the arts"
    supposedly this birth of tragedy is a problem not just of the ancient Greeks but a problem of all time periods. so say's Wikipedia.
    it's interesting that Nietzsche became critical of the work at one point saying it was "an impossible book... badly written, ponderous, embarrassing, image-mad and image-confused, sentimental, saccharine to the point of effeminacy, uneven in tempo, [and] without the will to logical cleanliness."
    well i guess i shouldn't be so critical only having skim read a little on it all, but i'd at least at this juncture in my take on it have to agree with his criticism.
    best regards,
    mr fr0g MMOA honorary predator
    STRENGTH - HONOR - HEART
    that's my take on it your mileage may vary.
    for senior citizen fuzzy count click link:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DrTiP4ZIUfI

  9. #84
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Third base
    Posts
    11,322

    Default Tough going

    Quote Originally Posted by aslan View Post
    What do you mean by "religious dogma explanations" and why do you always want to leave them out? Doesn't sound so "scientific" to me if you want to leave out an entire area of inquiry, and in fact, the one area than is most commonly accepted. Let's talk about cigarette use, but only cigarette users are allowed. That should provide a well rounded, fully packed point of view that will travel the discussion further, outstanding.
    What I mean by "religious dogma explanations" is an individual's view - according to their particular religion's same view - of the concept of God. That individual long ago accepted his religion's view as the truth, and so any further discussions are irrelevant. Such a one has his view of God as the truth and sees that in the context of his religion, and so the two are inextricably intertwined. In my experience, it is futile to engage such a one because their religious mindset always is the truth, the whole truth, and in reality, (anything but the truth.)

    And so we get down to the bottom line: One mindset is based on faith, the other on science, reason or logic. Nobody will ever win this one, and it goes around and around forever, with no forward motion, past final lines drawn in the sand. This is why I want it left out of discussion here.

    I would like to see if humans can actually discuss "God" without any religious dogma at all. Without reference to any scriptures, texts, middlemen, middle-churches, any churches or religious references at all. Could be tough going, right?
    Dogma schmogma

  10. #85

    Default

    I like myself yet, I am a sociopath or a Ataraxia sufferer. No doctor of philosophy has ever been able to make up their mind about my followings. And in theory, its really not realistic to try to formulate an algorithm when it comes to a chaotic human mind.

    So me is the answer.

    Actually Plato. Or Budda, or just some stanky bud.. Its all the same to me.

    Actually Tom Robbins, he is money dude..
    Last edited by mdlbj; February 24th, 2009 at 01:52 AM.
    Regards,

    MDLBJ

  11. #86
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    posting from Bethesda, MD
    Posts
    13,912

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Katweezel View Post
    and in reality, (anything but the truth.)
    Or is it? That's the $64 dollar question. You have only stated your opinion. In leaving out the religious person's point of view, you may have inadvertently left out the answer to your quest. You do have a quest, don't you? That's your dilemma. Quite an arrogant position to take.



    Quote Originally Posted by Katweezel View Post
    I would like to see if humans can actually discuss "God" without any religious dogma at all. Without reference to any scriptures, texts, middlemen, middle-churches, any churches or religious references at all. Could be tough going, right?
    A religious person can discuss without reference to dogma, but not without reference to belief. The same goes for you. You may think you are a product of your reason, but you too have beliefs. The belief that the religious person must be wrong, or the belief that reason can lead you to the truth, for two instances. In fact, nothing may be knowable, in which case, reason is folly.
    Aslan 11/1/90 - 6/15/10 Stormy 1/22/95 -8/23/10
    “There are not one hundred people in the United States who hate The Catholic Church,
    but there are millions who hate what they wrongly perceive the Catholic Church to be.”
    Bishop Fulton J. Sheen

    “It takes a very long time to become young.” Pablo Picasso

  12. #87
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Third base
    Posts
    11,322

    Default Beyondananda again?

    Quote Originally Posted by mdlbj View Post
    I like myself yet, I am a sociopath or a Ataraxia sufferer. No doctor of philosophy has ever been able to make up their mind about my followings. And in theory, its really not realistic to try to formulate an algorithm when it comes to a chaotic human mind.

    So me is the answer.

    Actually Plato. Or Budda, or just some stanky bud.. Its all the same to me.

    Actually Tom Robbins, he is money dude..
    Thank god for ataraxia and for Wiki, whose instantaneous assistance is reflected below, (just to get us up to date and on the same page.)
    Thomas Robbins.
    Thomas Eugene Robbins

    Born 22 July 1936 (1936-07-22) (age 72)
    Blowing Rock, North Carolina), United States
    Occupation novelist, short story writer, essayist
    Nationality United States Genres Fictional prose, Postmodernism
    Thomas Eugene Robbins (born July 22, 1936 in Blowing Rock, North Carolina) is an American author. His novels are complex, often wild stories with strong social undercurrents, a satirical bent, and obscure details. He is probably best known for his novel Even Cowgirls Get the Blues (1976), which was made into a movie in 1993 directed by Gus Van Sant.

    Robbins lived with his family in Blowing Rock until they settled in Burnsville, North Carolina in 1943. In 1954, Robbins studied journalism at Washington and Lee University in Lexington, Virginia but left after he was ousted from his fraternity for discipline problems. He spent the following year hitchhiking, finally settling in New York as a poet. In 1957 he enlisted in the Air Force after receiving his draft notice and spent two years as a meteorologist in Korea until being discharged in 1959. After he was discharged, Robbins returned to civilian life in Richmond, Virginia.

    In 1960, Robbins entered art school at Richmond Professional Institute, which later became Virginia Commonwealth University (VCU), and was the editor of the campus newspaper as well as a copy editor for the Richmond Times-Dispatch. Upon graduation, he moved to Seattle to seek a Masters degree at the School of Far Eastern Studies of the University of Washington. While in Seattle, he worked for The Seattle Times and Seattle Post-Intelligencer.

    Personal life
    He was a friend of Terence McKenna, whose influence is evident in several of his books. A main character (Larry Diamond) in Half Asleep in Frog Pajamas advocates a theory similar to those of McKenna, involving Psilocybin. In addition, there are striking parallels between one of the main characters of Jitterbug Perfume (Wiggs Dannyboy) and McKenna. He is also an admirer of Indian mystic Osho.[1] He is also on the advisory board of the Marijuana Policy Project. Annualy, Mr. Robbins participates in the Spam Sculpturing Competition as a judge.

    He won the Golden Umbrella award at the Bumbershoot Seattle arts festival in 1997.

    Robbins has two sons named Rip and Fleetwood Star. He is married to his third wife Alexa D'Avalon and has lived in La Conner, Washington since 1970.

    Robbins has written eight novels, and one collection, since 1971. He has also written numerous short stories and essays.[2]

    Another Roadside Attraction (1971)
    Even Cowgirls Get the Blues (1976)
    Still Life with Woodpecker (1980)
    Jitterbug Perfume (1984)
    Skinny Legs and All (1990)
    Half Asleep in Frog Pajamas (1994)
    Fierce Invalids Home from Hot Climates (2000)
    Villa Incognito (2003)
    Wild Ducks Flying Backward (2005) — a collection of non-fiction essays, reviews, and short stories.
    B Is for Beer (2009) — To be published April 21, 2009.

    Ataraxia (Ἀταραξία) is a Greek term used by Pyrrho and Epicurus for a limpid state, characterized by freedom from worry or any other preoccupation.

    For the Epicureans, ataraxia was synonymous with the only true happiness possible for a person. It signifies the detached and balanced state of mind that shows that a person has transcended the material world and is now harvesting all the comforts of philosophy.

    Well mdlbj, your brief but powerful entry here had all the earmarks of an Enlightened One. What Guru did you do your Mastership under? These quotes of yours are a dead giveaway: "Me is the answer... Plato, Bhudda... Some stanky bud... It's all the same to me." Classic Guru stuff. Namaste brother. You wouldn't by any chance have another handle, like Beyondananda would you?
    Dogma schmogma

  13. #88
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    posting from Bethesda, MD
    Posts
    13,912

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ace157 View Post
    Lets start with a lil Nietzsche - my assignment for this week was "the birth of tragedy", "the genealogy of morality" and "thus spoke zarthustra"

    I've only gotten through "the birth of tragedy" so far, but here's my thoughts

    There is a stark comparison between the Greek gods Apollo and Dionysus. Essentially this is where tragedy begins. Followers of Apollo would get their inspiration for poetry and art through dreams while Dionystic artist would get theirs from intoxication. You find a great struggle here because the ones who get intoxicated are trying to embellish on the brutalities of their society, yet the ones who dream are afraid to face such convictions. You also have the Greeks creating their system of gods who are on such a plane of existence that there is no such thing as good or bad; Nietzsche describes it as the "divine comedy of life" The greeks developed fictitious idols that symbolized everything they wished they could become (kind of like the movie Fight Club). Nietzsche also mentions King Midas whom hunts a companion of Dionysus and asked the creature what is best for mankind? and the creature replied "for you to have never been born and second best would be for you to die soon." And so the cycle continues in the embodiment of martyrs. And the contradiction between the arts is seen in struggle between science and religion. Each extreme suffers because they are bent on "the truth" rather than the realizing that it is in the quest for the truth that the substance of "truth" is gathered. There is no enlightenment, only learning... and the best teach is life and the school of hard knocks.

    ** those aren't all my personal opinions, just what i gathered from the reading
    Maybe we should all read the same book and share thoughts and observations from there.
    Aslan 11/1/90 - 6/15/10 Stormy 1/22/95 -8/23/10
    “There are not one hundred people in the United States who hate The Catholic Church,
    but there are millions who hate what they wrongly perceive the Catholic Church to be.”
    Bishop Fulton J. Sheen

    “It takes a very long time to become young.” Pablo Picasso

  14. #89
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    posting from Bethesda, MD
    Posts
    13,912

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Katweezel View Post
    Thank god for ataraxia and for Wiki, whose instantaneous assistance is reflected below, (just to get us up to date and on the same page.)
    Thomas Robbins.
    Thomas Eugene Robbins

    Born 22 July 1936 (1936-07-22) (age 72)
    Blowing Rock, North Carolina), United States
    Occupation novelist, short story writer, essayist
    Nationality United States Genres Fictional prose, Postmodernism
    Thomas Eugene Robbins (born July 22, 1936 in Blowing Rock, North Carolina) is an American author. His novels are complex, often wild stories with strong social undercurrents, a satirical bent, and obscure details. He is probably best known for his novel Even Cowgirls Get the Blues (1976), which was made into a movie in 1993 directed by Gus Van Sant.

    Robbins lived with his family in Blowing Rock until they settled in Burnsville, North Carolina in 1943. In 1954, Robbins studied journalism at Washington and Lee University in Lexington, Virginia but left after he was ousted from his fraternity for discipline problems. He spent the following year hitchhiking, finally settling in New York as a poet. In 1957 he enlisted in the Air Force after receiving his draft notice and spent two years as a meteorologist in Korea until being discharged in 1959. After he was discharged, Robbins returned to civilian life in Richmond, Virginia.

    In 1960, Robbins entered art school at Richmond Professional Institute, which later became Virginia Commonwealth University (VCU), and was the editor of the campus newspaper as well as a copy editor for the Richmond Times-Dispatch. Upon graduation, he moved to Seattle to seek a Masters degree at the School of Far Eastern Studies of the University of Washington. While in Seattle, he worked for The Seattle Times and Seattle Post-Intelligencer.

    Personal life
    He was a friend of Terence McKenna, whose influence is evident in several of his books. A main character (Larry Diamond) in Half Asleep in Frog Pajamas advocates a theory similar to those of McKenna, involving Psilocybin. In addition, there are striking parallels between one of the main characters of Jitterbug Perfume (Wiggs Dannyboy) and McKenna. He is also an admirer of Indian mystic Osho.[1] He is also on the advisory board of the Marijuana Policy Project. Annualy, Mr. Robbins participates in the Spam Sculpturing Competition as a judge.

    He won the Golden Umbrella award at the Bumbershoot Seattle arts festival in 1997.

    Robbins has two sons named Rip and Fleetwood Star. He is married to his third wife Alexa D'Avalon and has lived in La Conner, Washington since 1970.

    Robbins has written eight novels, and one collection, since 1971. He has also written numerous short stories and essays.[2]

    Another Roadside Attraction (1971)
    Even Cowgirls Get the Blues (1976)
    Still Life with Woodpecker (1980)
    Jitterbug Perfume (1984)
    Skinny Legs and All (1990)
    Half Asleep in Frog Pajamas (1994)
    Fierce Invalids Home from Hot Climates (2000)
    Villa Incognito (2003)
    Wild Ducks Flying Backward (2005) — a collection of non-fiction essays, reviews, and short stories.
    B Is for Beer (2009) — To be published April 21, 2009.

    Ataraxia (Ἀταραξία) is a Greek term used by Pyrrho and Epicurus for a limpid state, characterized by freedom from worry or any other preoccupation.

    For the Epicureans, ataraxia was synonymous with the only true happiness possible for a person. It signifies the detached and balanced state of mind that shows that a person has transcended the material world and is now harvesting all the comforts of philosophy.

    Well mdlbj, your brief but powerful entry here had all the earmarks of an Enlightened One. What Guru did you do your Mastership under? These quotes of yours are a dead giveaway: "Me is the answer... Plato, Bhudda... Some stanky bud... It's all the same to me." Classic Guru stuff. Namaste brother. You wouldn't by any chance have another handle, like Beyondananda would you?
    Not Tony Robbins? He sounds more like a "money dude."
    Aslan 11/1/90 - 6/15/10 Stormy 1/22/95 -8/23/10
    “There are not one hundred people in the United States who hate The Catholic Church,
    but there are millions who hate what they wrongly perceive the Catholic Church to be.”
    Bishop Fulton J. Sheen

    “It takes a very long time to become young.” Pablo Picasso

  15. #90
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Third base
    Posts
    11,322

    Default Hall of Fame

    Hey Ace157, I hope you caught Maz's fine piece on the World Peace thread. Both threads vitally concern world issues and peace. Philosophy is a vital ingredient. I have been trying to come to terms with one god. I believe there is a major religion that has 3 gods; god as father, god as son, and god as mother. If that is true, it is well beyond me. There goes a prime example for The Theatre of The Absurd's Hall of Fame...
    Dogma schmogma

+ Reply to Thread

Similar Threads

  1. Discuss science, politics, philosophy, conspiracy theories, or whatever
    By sagefr0g in forum Site Announcements & Questions
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: March 30th, 2014, 11:22 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts