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Thread: Obama a Failure, So Far

  1. #1

    Default Obama a Failure, So Far

    Obama passes his stimulus package that he says was absolutely necessary.

    The result:
    On the news the US stock market dropped about 5% in one day. This is a big numer.

    So this seems to show:
    Government is not the answer
    Big Fed government spending is not the answer
    Obama's plan is not the answer

    Billions for parks is part of the plan!

    Notice the spin has already happened?
    During the campaign "change and hope"
    Now you hear how hard and difficult things will be.

    If he can't change things is this an argument against affirmative action? That to elect someone with no government executive experience was a very bad idea?

  2. #2
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Opinion View Post
    Obama passes his stimulus package that he says was absolutely necessary.

    The result:
    On the news the US stock market dropped about 5% in one day. This is a big numer.

    So this seems to show:
    Government is not the answer
    Big Fed government spending is not the answer
    Obama's plan is not the answer

    Billions for parks is part of the plan!

    Notice the spin has already happened?
    During the campaign "change and hope"
    Now you hear how hard and difficult things will be.

    If he can't change things is this an argument against affirmative action? That to elect someone with no government executive experience was a very bad idea?
    Consider the facts. An urgent stimulus bill in which two thirds of the spending does not begin to take place until 2011? And even then, it only weakly addresses anything even remotely resembling stimulus. Who's kidding who? This is a reelection bill. It has nothing to do with the urgency of 2009. Pump large amounts of money (inflation) into the economy just before the next election cycle to give us that euphoric feeling. Believe it or not, Obama is already getting things in place for his next campaign. He's a professional campaigner, just like the bulk of Congressmen. That's why we get little of the things we need out of Congress. They're too busy getting ready for the next campaign, including lining up the money that buys their votes contrary to our best interests. Vote all the two-faced poli-crooks out of office!
    Aslan 11/1/90 - 6/15/10 Stormy 1/22/95 -8/23/10
    “There are not one hundred people in the United States who hate The Catholic Church,
    but there are millions who hate what they wrongly perceive the Catholic Church to be.”
    Bishop Fulton J. Sheen

    “It takes a very long time to become young.” Pablo Picasso

  3. #3

    Default

    I can't see Obama getting reelected. He is already making this country worse and has not been in office long at all. I think he will be out in 4 years.

  4. #4

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Opinion View Post
    During the campaign "change and hope"
    Now you hear how hard and difficult things will be.

    If he can't change things is this an argument against affirmative action? That to elect someone with no government executive experience was a very bad idea?
    Obama consistently said that the change would be difficult and require sacrifice. zg
    "The dogs bark but the caravan moves on."
    .....................The Zengrifter Interview (PDF) |
    The Zengrifter / James Grosjean Reputation Debate
    -----------------------------------------
    “Truth, like gold, is obtained not by growth, but by washing away all that is not gold.” — Leo Tolstoy........
    "Is everything a conspiracy? No, just the important stuff." ZG

  5. #5

    Default

    When Obama can get his illegal aunt out of the projects I'll take him more seriously.
    SD Padres

  6. #6
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    Default Revolutionary

    Quote Originally Posted by aslan View Post
    Consider the facts. An urgent stimulus bill in which two thirds of the spending does not begin to take place until 2011? And even then, it only weakly addresses anything even remotely resembling stimulus. Who's kidding who? This is a reelection bill. It has nothing to do with the urgency of 2009. Pump large amounts of money (inflation) into the economy just before the next election cycle to give us that euphoric feeling. Believe it or not, Obama is already getting things in place for his next campaign. He's a professional campaigner, just like the bulk of Congressmen. That's why we get little of the things we need out of Congress. They're too busy getting ready for the next campaign, including lining up the money that buys their votes contrary to our best interests. Vote all the two-faced poli-crooks out of office!
    You make a sound arguement that could begin a revolutionary new form of government. Something in latin that expresses that may be appropriate now; like 'let the revolution begin.'
    Dogma schmogma

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by zengrifter View Post
    Obama consistently said that the change would be difficult and require sacrifice. zg
    Where's the sacrifice. He's spending like there's no tomorrow. That sounds like indulging oneself, not restraint and sacrifice. Difficult? Only for the average American who is not going to be helped by anything in the entire 800 billion dollar package except a meager tax cut. Haha I didn't think Bush would look so good so short into the Obama presidency!
    Last edited by aslan; February 12th, 2009 at 06:07 PM.
    Aslan 11/1/90 - 6/15/10 Stormy 1/22/95 -8/23/10
    “There are not one hundred people in the United States who hate The Catholic Church,
    but there are millions who hate what they wrongly perceive the Catholic Church to be.”
    Bishop Fulton J. Sheen

    “It takes a very long time to become young.” Pablo Picasso

  8. #8
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    As a political independent and independent thinker, I have to say that declaring Obama either a failure or a success at this point in time is clouded by a predetermined perspective.

    good luck

  9. #9

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    And to think, just a year ago the Bush Stimulus received this scathing criticism from these very boards!

    http://www.zenzoneforum.com/showthre...light=stimulus

    I'm against the stimulus package, but I think most of the criticisms are simple partisan critiques rather than any sort of principle.

    For 6 years, self-proclaimed conservatives had control of the White House, the House of Representatives, and the Senate. For at least 3 of those years, they had an astronomical approval rating and carte blanche with the budget to do as they wished. What did we get? Massive tax cuts and a ballooning of federal spending; high praise for Reagan and how he showed us national debt doesn't matter.

    Now, Obama takes office, and suddenly everyone's a deficit hawk and suddenly concerned.

    Ironically, if there ever were one time in an economic cycle that deficit spending were justified, it would be right now, with the Fed Rate at an all-time low.

    Deficit hawks had their chance in about 2003-2004 to make a real difference, to take a chunk out of the national debt and restore fiscal responsibility (if not a balanced budget act, then at least PAYGO). THAT was the time for action, as the economy was growing.

    Contrary to popular belief, the smart strategy is to raise taxes and lower spending in good times, and to lower taxes and raise spending in economic downturns. The more dire our situation is right now, the more justified the stimulus package is. You can't both criticize how the economy is terrible and the necessity of the stimulus.

    (For the record, I don't think the economy is terrible, which is why I oppose the stimulus.)

  10. #10
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by callipygian View Post
    Contrary to popular belief, the smart strategy is to raise taxes and lower spending in good times, and to lower taxes and raise spending in economic downturns.
    Only if you're a Keynesian economist. Raising spending did not help in the 30's and it won't help now. During FDR's first eight years, unemployment outstripped the world index with unemployment at 20% by 1938, while the world index was around 11%. FDR also raised taxes, and I do agree with you that you should lower taxes when times are bad. Certain limited kinds of spending targeted to stimulating the private sector might make sense, but not the kind of scatter gun spending we are seeing in the stimulus bill. And if the spending is so critical, why then are they posponing two thirds of it until 2011? Pre-election inflation euphoria maybe?
    Aslan 11/1/90 - 6/15/10 Stormy 1/22/95 -8/23/10
    “There are not one hundred people in the United States who hate The Catholic Church,
    but there are millions who hate what they wrongly perceive the Catholic Church to be.”
    Bishop Fulton J. Sheen

    “It takes a very long time to become young.” Pablo Picasso

  11. #11

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by aslan
    Only if you're a Keynesian economist.
    You'd be hard-pressed not to be at this point. The Fed Rate is 0% (so obviously monetarist policy isn't working) and supply-side economists should think the stimulus bill works because of the tax cuts.

    Quote Originally Posted by aslan View Post
    Raising spending did not help in the 30's and it won't help now.
    There were many different factors in the 1930's, one of which was a major food crisis which also spurred massive migrations, and the other was the NIRA, whose effects lingered after it was declared unconstitutional.

    Quote Originally Posted by aslan
    Certain limited kinds of spending targeted to stimulating the private sector might make sense, but not the kind of scatter gun spending we are seeing in the stimulus bill. And if the spending is so critical, why then are they posponing two thirds of it until 2011?
    Beats the heck out of me. I think the stimulus is stupid.

    My point is that if there ever were a time for stimulus, it would be now (relative desirability), not that this stimulus is actually a good package (absolute desirability).

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by callipygian View Post
    You'd be hard-pressed not to be at this point. The Fed Rate is 0% (so obviously monetarist policy isn't working) and supply-side economists should think the stimulus bill works because of the tax cuts.



    There were many different factors in the 1930's, one of which was a major food crisis which also spurred massive migrations, and the other was the NIRA, whose effects lingered after it was declared unconstitutional.



    Beats the heck out of me. I think the stimulus is stupid.

    My point is that if there ever were a time for stimulus, it would be now (relative desirability), not that this stimulus is actually a good package (absolute desirability).
    The tax cuts are not nearly as deep as they should be, and they need to target business, including big business, which the Obama Adm is adverse to. BTW, tax cuts are stimulus, whereas I doubt that deficit spending in general is. It needs to be carefully targeted to give the business sector a lift. The spending in this bill seems to grow government, but not much in there for business, and you have to weigh the fact that the debt is reaching astronomical proportions. In the 30's many some countries cut taxes and spending and they came out of depression mucn sooner than we.
    Aslan 11/1/90 - 6/15/10 Stormy 1/22/95 -8/23/10
    “There are not one hundred people in the United States who hate The Catholic Church,
    but there are millions who hate what they wrongly perceive the Catholic Church to be.”
    Bishop Fulton J. Sheen

    “It takes a very long time to become young.” Pablo Picasso

  13. #13

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    I am definately not for the stimulus package, however, I would not be so upset if ALL of the money was being used to stimulate the economy. My problem with it is the fact that money is going to tame wolves, and millions of it is going to organizations that had profits of in excess of four million last year. I think the research on condums and aids is rediculous. I am not against funding aids research, but pass it seperately. This is the only way the Democrats can get most of the garbage passed is through the means of this stimulus package. It is unethical to give money away to something that is not going to stimulate the econony and call it a stimulous package. If it was truely a stimulus package I would not be so upset about it.

    As far as Obama being shot down. We have every right to do so. I am not saying he is going to be a total failure, but so far all we have to go on right now is this stimulus package, and it is complete failure. Obama has the power to make it right, but instead he enforces the ludicrous policies in the package and tells us if it is not passed it will be a big mistake. You can't go by what he has run on, because he is not going to live up to his word. He has already admitted that much.

    Besides that the medical field is a top ten for the least affected industries. So what does he do? He gives millions to doctors to purchase EMR electronic medical records. Before too long, he will require EMR for every clinic. This is wrong. If you do not believe me, check the law. As of now a two percent incentive is being added to all doctors that put in PQRI measures. These are quality control measures. Also the ICD 10 codes come out and have increased the amount of coding by over 1000 percent. In two years the two percent incentive becomes one percent, two years later a one percent punishment, and then a two percent punishment. For example, as of now, when you diagnose a sprained ankle, you have five or six codes for which foot, which ligaments, etc. when the ICD 10 codes come out, there are now 75 different codes. For examle which foot, which ligament, was caused by running or organized sports, etc. For head injuries they have stupid stuff like what the injury casued by a hocky injury, if so, was it from hitting the ice or by the puck, or the stick. This happens to everything the government tries to control when dealing with the medical industry. The only way to handle this is with EMR. Let me add, family practice doctors do not make that much money. EMR packages cost around fifty thousand dollars to install with a monthly maintenence of at least a thousand dollars a month. On top of that, in this stimulus package, they are trying to make it to where doctors do not have control over diagnsing the illness of their patients. They have rules for example is someone has a headache they can only diagnose them with specific codes. If the doctor feels it is something else, they cannont diagnose it and will not get paid for it. If this happens, why do we need doctors? Doctors go to school to learn how to diagnose illnesses, but now the government is telling them how to do their job. I could go on. This is rediculous.

    I have supporting documents for all this info. I am currently at home. If you want any info on it, let me know and I will post some article and law. Aslo don't forget about the added red flag rules. Just more laws to make medical clinics less productive.
    Last edited by ccibball50; February 12th, 2009 at 10:27 PM.

  14. #14

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    Lets give change a chance. zg
    "The dogs bark but the caravan moves on."
    .....................The Zengrifter Interview (PDF) |
    The Zengrifter / James Grosjean Reputation Debate
    -----------------------------------------
    “Truth, like gold, is obtained not by growth, but by washing away all that is not gold.” — Leo Tolstoy........
    "Is everything a conspiracy? No, just the important stuff." ZG

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by zengrifter View Post
    Lets give change a chance. zg
    That's all I have left! (I used to have dollars.)

    Two bits
    Four bits
    Six bits
    A dollar
    All for Obama
    Stand up and holler!Name:  1736.gif
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    Last edited by aslan; February 13th, 2009 at 05:19 AM.
    Aslan 11/1/90 - 6/15/10 Stormy 1/22/95 -8/23/10
    “There are not one hundred people in the United States who hate The Catholic Church,
    but there are millions who hate what they wrongly perceive the Catholic Church to be.”
    Bishop Fulton J. Sheen

    “It takes a very long time to become young.” Pablo Picasso

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