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Thread: THE Most Dangerous Cult

  1. #31
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    Moo,

    Some people are not interested in facts. The thrust of their comments appears to be that if it is anti-Christian it may have some merit, although they prefers their own brand of anti-Christianity to others'. Still, they will entertain any number of others' comments so long as they fit that basic criteria--anti-Christian. They will say that they have nothing against Christians, but that is only so long as they are weak and wishy-washy in their faith, afraid to stand up and be counted.

    I don't know the proper interpretation of antichrist--is it a symbol of the many sadistic tyrants who have come and gone like Hitler, Stalin, Sadaam?--or does it point to the emergence of a single, demonic individual who will lead the entire world astray?--whatever--proponents of anti-Christian thinking are sure getting revved up nowadays. Most certainly they would ignore me if I told them that the outcome of any resulting battle of ideas has already been decided in advance.

    As for personal revelations being a criteria for truth finding, I can't think of a worse criteria. All then becomes subjective and unverifiable. The schizophrenic and the learned man are now on an equal par. Absolutely ludicrous and utterly insane!

    Christians too have received personal revelations thousands of times in Christianity's history, but thank God that this is not the foundation for their belief. We now live in a world where many want to have their own religion/truth made in their own image and likeness for the purpose of justifying their own perversities. This has been a growing trend and will reap dire consequences. When historic texts and scholarly study for hundreds of years is rejected in totality and relegated to the status of Bible lessons for fools and bastardized, manipulated commentaries, there is something vile and demonic at work.
    Aslan 11/1/90 - 6/15/10 Stormy 1/22/95 -8/23/10
    “There are not one hundred people in the United States who hate The Catholic Church,
    but there are millions who hate what they wrongly perceive the Catholic Church to be.”
    Bishop Fulton J. Sheen

    “It takes a very long time to become young.” Pablo Picasso

  2. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by moo321 View Post
    The bible is so well supported by manuscript evidence, agreement with the archaeological record, and both friendly and hostile accounts, that to call the vailidity of the bible into question would cause one to have to question the whole record of ancient history.
    ...............
    And that would mean that you would have to say that there are NO accurate records of ANY event prior to the modern era, because no other ancient document has anything approaching the support that the bible has. So which is it?
    I DO INDEED question the whole record of ancient history, not just the shamefully tampered with Bible.

    This thread has gone so far off topic (Bible Prophecy/Dispensationalism) that we will need a new thread. This one is closed EXCEPT to the original subject.

    I will post a new thread unless you guys beat me to it. You can start a thread, perhaps, about the "inerrancy" of the Bible, or some such. zg
    "The dogs bark but the caravan moves on."
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  3. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by moo321 View Post

    The bible is so well supported by manuscript evidence, agreement with the archaeological record, and both friendly and hostile accounts, that to call the vailidity of the bible into question would cause one to have to question the whole record of ancient history.
    As Winston Churchill once stated: The only thing we learn from History, is that we have learned nothing from History...

    We have thousands of existing manuscripts of the New Testament, in Greek and in translation, some from within decades of the writings themselves.
    Actually, a bit over 5700 1st Century documents-they are including the writings of the early (Apostolic) Fathers-that is, the generatioin immediately preceeding the Apostles. Most of these men know (personally) the Apostles. If you include 1-3rd century Church leaders (Irenious, Clement, Origen, etc. it's closer to 21,000.
    We have so many quotations of the bible that, if we didn't have a single manuscript, we could still reconstruct 95% of the text just from quotations in letters by the early church fathers.
    The earliest 'complete' manuscript was found in 1859, called the "Codex Sinaiticus'. It was believed to have been written in (or around) A.D. 350. It contains nearly all of the New Testament, and a bit over half of the old. (If you insist, I can give you the exact books, but I' need a bit of time to dig back through my notes). It is on display in the British Myseum. The other 'important' discovery was the 'Codex Vaticanus', compiled about A.D. 325. Discovered in 1933. It contains all of the Old Testament wxcept parts of Genesis, and the New Testament through a portion of Hebrews. It is on display at the vatican. Both texts are written in Greek Unical. Both books are (for all practical purposes) identical to the Bible of today. (The few places that it DOES differentiate are usually listed in any good study Bible). Or, learn Greek and read them for yourselves. I am not a mathematician, but I understand that the odds of these books changing so slightly ARE a mathematical impossibility.

    And if you say it's some sort of 'Catholic Trick' then I dare say your grasp of European History is as shaky as a gambling progression.
    If you want to say that the bible has been bastardized; that's fine. But you need to then have the intellectual integrity to say that any ancient document that has less support than the bible also has been bastardized, and is not trustworthy.
    Actually, the (documetable) evidence for the scriptures NOT being 'bastardized' far outstrip the opposite idea.
    And that would mean that you would have to say that there are NO accurate records of ANY event prior to the modern era, because no other ancient document has anything approaching the support that the bible has. So which is it?
    The biggest problem with the Qu'ran is the very claims that you make as a problem with scripture. There have been (that I nderstand) to have been some 17 different variations of the Qu'ran since Muhammed. Some of the writings that I have read credited TO Muhammed suggest that if you were to show him a 7th century Qu'ran that indicated Christ was anything BUT a prophet, he (Muhammed) would claim it to be heretical.

    Hence, the problem with the Qu'ran. The historical and archaeological evidence just doesn't stack up. Not to mention the one thing everyone tends to overlook when they go to 'bashing' the 'strickt, believe it or else' Bible-it is the ONLY 'Holy Book' where it tells it's believers to: "Test EVERYTHING, Hold on to what is Good..."(1 Thes. 5:21).

    As to myself, I believe that Jesus of Nazareth IS the Christ Messiah prophesied. I believe that He DID come so that all mankind might be saved. I believe He was crucified, died and returned from the dead so that we might be saved. I believe that those who truly call upon His name (and I have) shall be saved. I believe that those who have heard the Gospel will be judged upon this fact. I believe the Scripture also points to the fact that those who have NOT heard the Gospel will NOT be judged on the Gospel, rather their own understandings of right and wrong. And I believe that I can back up my statements with Scripture, and back up Scripture with documentable history and archaeology.

    And yes, I believe the evidence supports these statements, and my beliefs in Jesus Christ.

    And yes, I believe the likes of John Hagee and his ilk will have a LOT to answer for in leading so many astray. Remember-we're told to (TEST EVERYTHING!)

    And yes, I have an opinion about the end of days, but it is not relevant.

    And yes, I believe there are a lot of people who will call me ignorant and foolish...So be it.

  4. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by zengrifter View Post

    This thread has gone so far off topic (Bible Prophecy/Dispensationalism) that we will need a new thread. This one is closed EXCEPT to the original subject.
    Sorry! I was busy writing the last post when you posted that the topic was closed. My apologies! Please move the above post to where you see fit. (Hopefully not the trash can!)

  5. #35
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    Well done, eps6724!
    Aslan 11/1/90 - 6/15/10 Stormy 1/22/95 -8/23/10
    “There are not one hundred people in the United States who hate The Catholic Church,
    but there are millions who hate what they wrongly perceive the Catholic Church to be.”
    Bishop Fulton J. Sheen

    “It takes a very long time to become young.” Pablo Picasso

  6. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by eps6724 View Post
    And yes, I believe the likes of John Hagee and his ilk will have a LOT to answer for in leading so many astray.
    Now we are back on topic, since Hagee is a dispensationalist.

    How is John Hagee (and Robertson, Lindsay, etc.) leading Christians astray? zg

    -----------------
    Strange End-Times Beliefs Of Some
    'Evangelical' Christians


    By Norio Hayakawa
    7-28-6

    The power of America's so-called "Evangelical community" certainly cannot be underestimated. Its influence seems to be huge, to say the least, especially upon this present U.S. Administration. There is no doubt that America's "Evangelical Christians" (i.e., "Christian Zionists") not only support Israel in its totality, but also even seem to welcome an all-out War in the Middle East to "hasten" (or "accelerate") the climate for the realization of "end-time" events long prophecied.

    The main reason for this is quite simple. To them, it all started on May 14, 1948 when the State of Israel became a reality in more than 2000 years. It was a miraculous event to the vast majority of American's Fundamentalist Christians then (particularly to those who adhered to the so-called "dispensationalist" interpretation of the Bible) who rejoiced at that unprecedented event, believing that it was the fulfillment of Biblical Prophecy, the beginning of the "end-time" period.

    Fundamentalist Christians (such as Baptists, especially the Southern Baptists, Pentecostalists, such as the Assemeblies of God, Foursquare Churches, Full Gospel Churches, and all other denominations of the so-called "born-again", "Evangelical" beliefs), believed that the generation that would wtiness the re-establishment of Israel would also be the generation that would witness the Second Coming of Jesus and the consequent establishment of His Millenial Reign on earth from Israel.

    Thus they are all part of the growing and influential "Christian Zionists", which definitely played a major role in the growth of America's so-called Neo-Conservative ("Neo-Cons") movement of recent years.

    Going back to the significance of the establishment of Israel in 1948, quite a number of Fundamentalist Christians came to believe that a Biblical generation was 40 years.

    However, when 1988 (i.e., 40 years after 1948) came and went by without a whimper, another theory started to pop up. They found a new significant year in 1967, the year in which Israel (through the Six-days War) occupied the city of Jerusalem for the first time in more than 2000 years. Their belief then was that it was the fulfillment of the prophecy that said that "Jerusalem shall be trodden down by the Gentiles until the time of the Gentiles be fulfilled".

    Thus, many of the evangelical Christians today came to believe that 1967 marked the beginning of the end of the Gentile rule. A great number of "Evangelicals" today now seem to believe that it is the generation of 1967 that will see the Second Coming of Jeus Christ.

    Once again, if they consider a Biblical generation to be 40 years, then the year 2007 to them will be significant for obvious reasons. (Some of them even say that our present calendar system is off by about 5 years, that the birth of Jesus Christ most likely took place around 5 B.C., which means that instead of 2006, we are now in 2011, and that next year, 2007, will actually be 2012).

    ...more - http://www.zenzoneforum.com/showthre...ight=christian
    Last edited by zengrifter; August 21st, 2007 at 01:11 AM.
    "The dogs bark but the caravan moves on."
    .....................The Zengrifter Interview (PDF) |
    The Zengrifter / James Grosjean Reputation Debate
    -----------------------------------------
    “Truth, like gold, is obtained not by growth, but by washing away all that is not gold.” — Leo Tolstoy........
    "Is everything a conspiracy? No, just the important stuff." ZG

  7. #37

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    Self Proclaimed Christain Prophets Call for Murder, War.

    By Marcus K. Dalton
    Tribune Media Group / August 22, 2005

    The "Christian" minister Pat Robertson called for the murder of the President of Venezuela, in an apology he repeated the call for murder: is this the voice of Christianity?


    Robertson has called for the assassination of Hugo Chavez, the elected President of Venezuela. The founder and chairman of the Christian Broadcasting Network, an ordained minister and leader of a Christian church, Robertson claims he spoke out of frustration.

    In his apology, Robinson said he was misunderstood, “misinterpreted.” So he wanted “to clarify remarks made on the Monday, August 22nd edition of The 700 Club where I ad-libbed a comment following a very brilliant analysis by Dale Hurd of the danger that the United States faces from the out-of-control dictator of Venezuela, Hugo Chavez. In this story, Chavez repeatedly claimed that Americans were ‘trying to assassinate him.’”

    And Pat Robertson isn’t the only Christian 'jihadist' stirring up hatred and war mongering for the Bush Cabal. Now Hal Lindsay is calling for the invasion of Iran

    According to Uri Dowbenko, "Self-proclaimed 'bible prophecy prophet' Hal Lindsay has been been predicting the apocalyptic destruction of the planet ever since he wrote "The Late Great Planet Earth" in 1972. Why? Because his Belief System (BS) tells him so."

    Hal Lindsay has been called the "Father of Apocalyptic Christian Zionism." His false prophecies have littered the landscape with failed doom and gloom scenarios for decades. Recently he has written a new pseudo-religious rant called "Iran could ignite catastrophe" on the WorldNetDaily website.

    "Lindsay wants Iran to be nuked or at least invaded by the Bush Cabal since he believes he won’t get "rapturized" until the end of the world," adds Dowbenko.

    The Armageddon theology of the New Christian Right is being propagated by numerous TV evangelists, including Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell, along with Hal Lindsey's widely read The Late Great Planet Earth, and Tim LaHayes' "Left Behind" series, and that this theology is influencing millions of human beings worldwide to not only believe that the world is going to end soon, but that it is their duty to hasten the event in any way they can. It is in this context that we gain greater understanding of the politics of George W. Bush, though both of these books were written long before Bush effected a coup d'etat in 2000.

    Back to Robertson, he repeated his call to assassinate Chavez in the middle of his so-called apology:

    “If you look back just a few years, there was a popular coup that overthrew Chavez; and what did the United States State Department do about it? Virtually nothing; and as a result, within about 48 hours, that coup was broken, Chavez was back in power. But we had a chance to move in. He has destroyed the Venezuelan economy, and he’s going to make that a launching pad for communist infiltration and Muslim extremism all over the continent. I don’t know about this doctrine of assassination, but if he thinks we’re trying to assassinate him, I think we really ought to go ahead and do it. It’s a whole lot cheaper than starting a war, and I don’t think any oil shipments will stop. But this man is a terrific danger, and this is in our sphere of influence, so we can’t let this happen.”

    In a recent commentary at Intervention Magazine, Mark Biskeborn points out: "This is not an apology since again the Christian minister calls for Chavez’s assassination. This makes us wonder about Robertson's mental stability."

    Biskeborn continues: "But there are other aspects of him that we are clear about:

    • Even though Robertson claims to be a Christian, in calling for the murder of another man, an elected official in a sovereign country, this represents an outrageous distortion of Christ’s teachings.

    • As a Christian leader calling for murder, Robertson places himself among the type of fundamentalists that in his statement he calls “Muslim extremism.”

    • Robertson has lost all sense of ethics, and therefore he cannot possibly maintain any credibility in the Christian community.

    • Any Christian community that still supports Robertson after twice advocating murder, is not adhering to Christ’s teachings."

    Robertson’s Christian Fatwa, a religious call to murder someone he judges as an enemy, symbolizes the confused and vicious thinking of more than one man. It expresses the Bush Administration’s immoral foreign policy, its extremist militarism, its warlord and judgmental approach to war declared in the name of God. Nothing could be more irrational, emotionally charged and extremely dangerous to a democracy, especially one with the most powerful military in the world.

    In "The Most Dangerous Cult in The World" author Laura Knight-Jadczyk wrote an excellent analysis of Armegeddon Theology stating: "Most "fundamentalists" believe that it is their duty to fulfill the biblical prophecy of fighting World War III preparatory to Christ's Second Coming. Most disquieting is the alliance of the New Christian Right and militant Zionists who share a common belief and enthusiasm for a global holocaust. Alarming, too, is the extent of the political influence of the above mentioned tele-evangelists, the Israeli lobby and the fact that the policies of George W. Bush are largely subject to his alleged belief in the inevitability of a God-willed nuclear war."

    "While the real Bush, behind the scenes, is likely not truly Christian and follows the ideas of Machiavelli which posit that a leader must appear to be religious in order to induce the masses who are believers to follow him, much of Congress may very well believe in this Armageddon Theology," concludes Knight-Jadczyk.

    Lindsay's WorldNetDaily article talks about the ultimate evangelical/apocalyptic wet dream: complete nuclear annihilation through the Israeli plan for World War III called the "samson Option."

    "The 'Samson Option' is an operational plan that can be implemented on very short notice," writes Lindsay. "If Israel sees that it is about to be overrun or faces annihilation by weapons of mass destruction, the 'Samson Option' will immediately kick in. There would be very little left of the Muslim Middle East after that."

    And that's the way the Robertsons and Lindsays likes it, since their false prophecies would finally get some legs. And, with the Bush Cabal planning WWIII in the Middle East, anything is possible.

    And then Lindsay's and Robertson's Apocalyptic Christian Zionism and its deluded followers will finally get "rapturized."

    Or at least blown to bits.

    Dowbenko suggests, "Then they can get reincarnated as Muslims -- and maybe finally learn their lesson..."

    -------------------------------
    Marcus K. Dalton is the Managing Editor of the Las Vegas Tribune.
    "The dogs bark but the caravan moves on."
    .....................The Zengrifter Interview (PDF) |
    The Zengrifter / James Grosjean Reputation Debate
    -----------------------------------------
    “Truth, like gold, is obtained not by growth, but by washing away all that is not gold.” — Leo Tolstoy........
    "Is everything a conspiracy? No, just the important stuff." ZG

  8. #38
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    Well, Pat Robertson is a stupid donkey. You don't have to cite anything to convince me of that. John Hagee is a little better, but still pretty off the mark.

    The main problem with all of these guys is an inability to read the bible for what it wants to say, not what they want to say. Jesus was very clear that we couldn't be sure when he would return, he only gave a few hints. And Revelation is intentionally cryptic; some or most of the book may refer only to ancient events. They also may have double meanings, or they may refer exclusively to future events. Who the hell knows? The last thing we need is a lot of dogmatic interpretation.
    Last edited by moo321; August 21st, 2007 at 01:10 PM.

  9. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by zengrifter View Post

    [FONT=&quot]In "The Most Dangerous Cult in The World" author Laura Knight-Jadczyk wrote an excellent analysis of Armegeddon Theology stating: "Most "fundamentalists" believe that it is their duty to fulfill the biblical prophecy of fighting World War III preparatory to Christ's Second Coming.
    O.K., let me say first off that the following is my OPINION. Tho I believe I can back up my opinion with scripture, it still remains just my opinion.

    Before I answer to my reference to John Hagee, let us first look at the language we use today. (All from Meriam Webster's Dictionary

    CULT: great devotion to a person, idea, object, movement, or work (as a film or book); especially : such devotion regarded as a literary or intellectual fad b: the object of such devotion c: a usually small group of people characterized by such devotion

    Today the term has us believing that the term 'cult', carries with it a sinister overtone. By definition, we as 'card counters', are a 'cult'. Sorry, I see nothing 'sinister' in learning that 1+1=2. (PLEASE don't start that binary stuff again!!!!)

    FUNDAMENTALIST: a movement or attitude stressing strict and literal adherence to a set of basic principles

    Hey, guess what? By this definition card counters are-well, fundamentalists!

    DISPENSATION: a general state or ordering of things; specifically : a system of revealed commands and promises regulating human affairs

    Again, card-counting. We have an order-BS-that are revealed and give us a promise-that is, when the count goes UP, it will come down. (I'm talking in a strict way, don't start on the 'but if only 1.5 decks are cut off...)

    So, to say that Fundamentalists Dispensational Christians are a 'cult' is to be both right-in a literal sense, and wrong-in a fear-mongering twisting sense.

    HOWEVER when dealing with 'dispensationalists' such as Hagee, Lindsay, etc. etc. we must ask ourselves first-by definition, are they 'Fundamentalists?' Or, more specific, are they 'Fundamentalist Christians'?

    I would love to begin with a discussion on the (DOCUMENTABLE) Historical Christ, but zg has aked us to stay on topic. So, instead, I would like to look at the (DOCUMENTABLE) SAYINGS of Christ, especially as how the likes of Hagee and Lindsay have turned that around on us and made us all look like money grubbing uneducated fools.

    The idea of the Dispensation (the term first appears in the 14th Century) as it relates to End Times (or Escatology) is one of a number of beliefs. If one were to study those beliefs (including Classical Interpretatioin, Historical interpretation, Pre-Post-and Pan Trib, you will find that they all have merit and can be supported by scripture. It is an interesting topic, and being that it IS in scripture, worthy of our consideration-to a point.

    To say that the 'Fundamentalist Christians' are trying to 'hurry things along' is akin to saying that Cypher is a legitimate Advantage Player. For there are two things that must be pointed out: someone claiming to be a 'Christian' is claiming to be a follower of Christ. And someone claiming to be a follower of Christ must-well, follow Christ. Throwing Revelations aside (as they almost did when the discussion of the canonization occurred in 381) and leaving out hte prophesies of Daniel, Ezekiel, Isaiah and Malachi (only because they are OT, and we are dealing strictly with Christ) that leaves us to leaning on the sayings of Christ. (For a look at the historical and archaeological evidence, please see former post).

    Hagee would have us believe that poverty is a curse (the so-called 'Prosperity Doctrine), that the Jewish people have a different 'plan of salvation' (then why did Christ come as a JEW???) that we live in the 'end times' and that if you disagree with him you are bound for eternal torment. The question then becomes: Are these the words of Christ, whom he claims to follow?

    Hagee says we're in the 'end times'. Christ says: 'No man knows the time or the season except the Father, which is in Heaven' (Matt. 24: 36) and then: as it was in the days of Noah were, so also shall be the days before the coming of Man". (Matt. 24:37).

    Let us understand the Greek wording of 'time or season'. Based upon the rest of scripture, we can exrapolate that this refers to an undisclosed amopunt of time, not what time of the day and whether it's fall, summer, winter, etc. "The days of Noah"-hey, scripture tells us that Noah lived 600 years BEFORE the flood. So to give 1948 as the 'beginning of the end' leaves us to believe-O.K., then it'll happen in the next 600 YEARS!

    So, Hagee (indeed, ANYONE) who claims to know when the End Times are (or even if we're close) is to deny Christ. And how can one be a 'Christ Follower' if we are not going to believe His words?

    Hagee talks of the fact that poverty is a curse. Christ fed the multitudess, ate with sinners, socialised with the outcast. Mr. Hagee has chosen to alienate himself with those Christ called his sheep. Christ told Peter to 'feed my sheep'. (John 21:16-17). Mr. Hagee would instead have us send tehm to Oral Roberts to be 'Healed'.

    Hagee has stated that the Jewish people have a different 'path' to salvation. Christ said "I have come but to the lost sheep of Israel' (Mtt. 10:6) and "No one comes to the Father but through Me" (John 14:6). So, Mr. Hagee has indicated that he is a Christ Follower on spme points. (Does this make him a 'Sortachristian'?

    Dispensationalsim: what is a Christian to do? Well, let's see...Christ talked of the End times in 4 chapters of His sayings. 4 chapters out of 74! So what did He talk of the REST of the time? How about Compassion...caring for the sick and needy...loving everyone...blessing those that curse us...sacrificing ourselves for the benefit of others...(Mr. Hagee has a church of 17,000 people. Oh, what could he do to expand the teachings of Christ if he would take the money he's bilkin...receiving from this multitude and-say, build a few dozen hospitals/orphanages/power plans for the Iraqui people? Offer to help the impoverished in Iran? Show up with a ton of supplies for the war torn people in Afganistan? In short, is he s 'Christian' by pushing for a major war, or would a 'TRUE' Fundamentalist Christian instead push to HELP these people? If the time is truly near, hadn't true 'Christians' better get off their Hagee/Lindsay/Lahee bandwagon and get on with the work Christ commanded them to do?

    In short, wanna reach the world? Wanna get people to say "Hey, I want the peace that YOU have"? Want to be able to 'Answer for the hope that lies within us"? (1Peter 3:15). Then we should turn to the teachings of Christ and become the meek, loving people we are commanded to do, not the war-mongering, hate-filled people that is so typical of the egotistical Americans.

    When we reach THIS point, then we can LEAD people to Christ, through the kindness and compassion that He had for us, and not through the attitude that we're better than everyone else.

    Yes, I claim the moniker 'Christian', with the understanding that it is an ongoing path-one that REQUIRES that I study-for myself-and use my God-given intellect to come to the conclusions that have been laid out for me to follow. This includes Archaeological discoveries, history, and the writings-both past and present-of people I can trust. (Oh, BTW-I tend to discount much of what I read unless it is well documented-and I can check out their documentation. This is a subject way too important to blindly follow someone else!)

    My 2 cents, for what it's worth. Now, a but of time practicing BJ...

  10. #40

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    Wow! That was one 'hell' (pardon the pun) of a response! Thank you. zg
    "The dogs bark but the caravan moves on."
    .....................The Zengrifter Interview (PDF) |
    The Zengrifter / James Grosjean Reputation Debate
    -----------------------------------------
    “Truth, like gold, is obtained not by growth, but by washing away all that is not gold.” — Leo Tolstoy........
    "Is everything a conspiracy? No, just the important stuff." ZG

  11. #41

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    Quote Originally Posted by zengrifter View Post
    Wow! That was one 'hell' (pardon the pun) of a response! Thank you. zg
    My pleasure. I have somewhat of a ""Passion for the Christ" (padon the pun) about this!

    -EPS

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    Quote Originally Posted by eps6724 View Post
    My pleasure. I have somewhat of a ""Passion for the Christ" (padon the pun) about this!

    -EPS
    Forsooth!

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    Quote Originally Posted by zengrifter View Post
    Self Proclaimed Christain Prophets Call for Murder, War.

    By Marcus K. Dalton
    Tribune Media Group / August 22, 2005[FONT=&quot]

    Marcus K. Dalton is the Managing Editor of the Las Vegas Tribune.
    What does the K stand for?
    Dogma schmogma

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    Quote Originally Posted by zengrifter View Post
    Self Proclaimed Christain Prophets Call for Murder, War.

    By Marcus K. Dalton
    Tribune Media Group / August 22, 2005

    The "Christian" minister Pat Robertson called for the murder of the President of Venezuela, in an apology he repeated the call for murder: is this the voice of Christianity?


    Robertson has called for the assassination of Hugo Chavez, the elected President of Venezuela. The founder and chairman of the Christian Broadcasting Network, an ordained minister and leader of a Christian church, Robertson claims he spoke out of frustration.

    In his apology, Robinson said he was misunderstood, “misinterpreted.” So he wanted “to clarify remarks made on the Monday, August 22nd edition of The 700 Club where I ad-libbed a comment following a very brilliant analysis by Dale Hurd of the danger that the United States faces from the out-of-control dictator of Venezuela, Hugo Chavez. In this story, Chavez repeatedly claimed that Americans were ‘trying to assassinate him.’”

    And Pat Robertson isn’t the only Christian 'jihadist' stirring up hatred and war mongering for the Bush Cabal. Now Hal Lindsay is calling for the invasion of Iran

    According to Uri Dowbenko, "Self-proclaimed 'bible prophecy prophet' Hal Lindsay has been been predicting the apocalyptic destruction of the planet ever since he wrote "The Late Great Planet Earth" in 1972. Why? Because his Belief System (BS) tells him so."

    Hal Lindsay has been called the "Father of Apocalyptic Christian Zionism." His false prophecies have littered the landscape with failed doom and gloom scenarios for decades. Recently he has written a new pseudo-religious rant called "Iran could ignite catastrophe" on the WorldNetDaily website.

    "Lindsay wants Iran to be nuked or at least invaded by the Bush Cabal since he believes he won’t get "rapturized" until the end of the world," adds Dowbenko.

    The Armageddon theology of the New Christian Right is being propagated by numerous TV evangelists, including Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell, along with Hal Lindsey's widely read The Late Great Planet Earth, and Tim LaHayes' "Left Behind" series, and that this theology is influencing millions of human beings worldwide to not only believe that the world is going to end soon, but that it is their duty to hasten the event in any way they can. It is in this context that we gain greater understanding of the politics of George W. Bush, though both of these books were written long before Bush effected a coup d'etat in 2000.

    Back to Robertson, he repeated his call to assassinate Chavez in the middle of his so-called apology:

    “If you look back just a few years, there was a popular coup that overthrew Chavez; and what did the United States State Department do about it? Virtually nothing; and as a result, within about 48 hours, that coup was broken, Chavez was back in power. But we had a chance to move in. He has destroyed the Venezuelan economy, and he’s going to make that a launching pad for communist infiltration and Muslim extremism all over the continent. I don’t know about this doctrine of assassination, but if he thinks we’re trying to assassinate him, I think we really ought to go ahead and do it. It’s a whole lot cheaper than starting a war, and I don’t think any oil shipments will stop. But this man is a terrific danger, and this is in our sphere of influence, so we can’t let this happen.”

    In a recent commentary at Intervention Magazine, Mark Biskeborn points out: "This is not an apology since again the Christian minister calls for Chavez’s assassination. This makes us wonder about Robertson's mental stability."

    Biskeborn continues: "But there are other aspects of him that we are clear about:

    • Even though Robertson claims to be a Christian, in calling for the murder of another man, an elected official in a sovereign country, this represents an outrageous distortion of Christ’s teachings.

    • As a Christian leader calling for murder, Robertson places himself among the type of fundamentalists that in his statement he calls “Muslim extremism.”

    • Robertson has lost all sense of ethics, and therefore he cannot possibly maintain any credibility in the Christian community.

    • Any Christian community that still supports Robertson after twice advocating murder, is not adhering to Christ’s teachings."

    Robertson’s Christian Fatwa, a religious call to murder someone he judges as an enemy, symbolizes the confused and vicious thinking of more than one man. It expresses the Bush Administration’s immoral foreign policy, its extremist militarism, its warlord and judgmental approach to war declared in the name of God. Nothing could be more irrational, emotionally charged and extremely dangerous to a democracy, especially one with the most powerful military in the world.

    In "The Most Dangerous Cult in The World" author Laura Knight-Jadczyk wrote an excellent analysis of Armegeddon Theology stating: "Most "fundamentalists" believe that it is their duty to fulfill the biblical prophecy of fighting World War III preparatory to Christ's Second Coming. Most disquieting is the alliance of the New Christian Right and militant Zionists who share a common belief and enthusiasm for a global holocaust. Alarming, too, is the extent of the political influence of the above mentioned tele-evangelists, the Israeli lobby and the fact that the policies of George W. Bush are largely subject to his alleged belief in the inevitability of a God-willed nuclear war."

    "While the real Bush, behind the scenes, is likely not truly Christian and follows the ideas of Machiavelli which posit that a leader must appear to be religious in order to induce the masses who are believers to follow him, much of Congress may very well believe in this Armageddon Theology," concludes Knight-Jadczyk.

    Lindsay's WorldNetDaily article talks about the ultimate evangelical/apocalyptic wet dream: complete nuclear annihilation through the Israeli plan for World War III called the "samson Option."

    "The 'Samson Option' is an operational plan that can be implemented on very short notice," writes Lindsay. "If Israel sees that it is about to be overrun or faces annihilation by weapons of mass destruction, the 'Samson Option' will immediately kick in. There would be very little left of the Muslim Middle East after that."

    And that's the way the Robertsons and Lindsays likes it, since their false prophecies would finally get some legs. And, with the Bush Cabal planning WWIII in the Middle East, anything is possible.

    And then Lindsay's and Robertson's Apocalyptic Christian Zionism and its deluded followers will finally get "rapturized."

    Or at least blown to bits.

    Dowbenko suggests, "Then they can get reincarnated as Muslims -- and maybe finally learn their lesson..."

    -------------------------------
    Marcus K. Dalton is the Managing Editor of the Las Vegas Tribune.
    That's a very impressive article you wrote there, Brother Dalton. I would have expected that since 2005, you might have gone on to bigger and better publications, such as the NYT or the Washington Post or Time magazine. You obviously leave far behind in your literary wake the likes of Coulter, Beck and Limbaugh. The opinion of Rush L, BTW is still very much admired by Mormon Mitt. LOL. Is it not too late for you to take on America's most formidable enemy within: The Israeli Lobby?
    Dogma schmogma

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    Quote Originally Posted by moo321 View Post
    Yes it is an opinion, and it's an opinion based on your blind faith. I've tried to discuss this with you, but you're not interested. If you did real research into the origins of the bible, you would have discovered that it is well supported.

    The bible is so well supported by manuscript evidence, agreement with the archaeological record, and both friendly and hostile accounts, that to call the vailidity of the bible into question would cause one to have to question the whole record of ancient history.

    We have thousands of existing manuscripts of the New Testament, in Greek and in translation, some from within decades of the writings themselves. We have so many quotations of the bible that, if we didn't have a single manuscript, we could still reconstruct 95% of the text just from quotations in letters by the early church fathers.

    If you want to say that the bible has been bastardized; that's fine. But you need to then have the intellectual integrity to say that any ancient document that has less support than the bible also has been bastardized, and is not trustworthy. And that would mean that you would have to say that there are NO accurate records of ANY event prior to the modern era, because no other ancient document has anything approaching the support that the bible has. So which is it?
    Moo is way off there, with his hopeful summaries. Xianity is based wholly on faith and hope. We now have here the great work of a professor who devoted much time and effort trying to get to the bottom of this Christian thing. He succeeded. He began his studies as a Christian and ended as a firm non-believer. When anyone takes the time and effort to read his fullsome article below, an intelligent, non-brainwashed reader must reach certain inescapable conclusions when presented with the facts. And the main inescapable conclusion is: THE JESUS STORY WAS ONLY MYTHOLOGY.

    http://www.atheistfoundation.org.au/...y-jesus-christ
    Last edited by Katweezel; November 12th, 2011 at 10:10 PM. Reason: Oh Truth, set me free
    Dogma schmogma

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