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Thread: Coercive management techniques

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    Default Coercive management techniques

    China Inspired Interrogations at Guantánamo

    Published: July 2, 2008
    WASHINGTON — The military trainers who came to Guantánamo Bay in December 2002 based an entire interrogation class on a chart showing the effects of “coercive management techniques” for possible use on prisoners, including “sleep deprivation,” “prolonged constraint,” and “exposure.”

    What the trainers did not say, and may not have known, was that their chart had been copied verbatim from a 1957 Air Force study of Chinese Communist techniques used during the Korean War to obtain confessions, many of them false, from American prisoners.

    The recycled chart is the latest and most vivid evidence of the way Communist interrogation methods that the United States long described as torture became the basis for interrogations both by the military at the base at Guantánamo Bay, Cuba, and by the Central Intelligence Agency.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/02/us...30zjEFkwxGaOjQ

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    I wonder if the same techniques for eliciting a false confession could be used to obtain a truthful confession, the difference being, in the first case, the subject has nothing to hide and therefore nothing but a lie to tell, wheras in the second case, the subject is convinced it is better to give up what he knows. Ha! Interesting conjecture.

    I thought for a minute Qfit was about to applaud the U.S. for adopting a communist technique. Huuahh!

    I wonder too what interrogation technique would not be considered torture. Let's see--you're trying to break a person down to get them to tell what they have been hiding. How would you do it? Give them a good night's sleep, a hearty breakfast, and a comfortable chair from which to answer. Who knows? It might work--I'm sure it's been tried before.

    Sleep deprivation? Isn't that one of the methods that U.S. cops use? Questioning a prisoner all night? Stuff like that? Where does one draw the line between torture and effective interrogation techniques? Is it an art or a science?

    Is the aim of U.S. interrogation to get the person to lie, or to find out some useful information that might save the lives of American soldiers and/or citizens? If the subject does give misinforamation, doesn't the U.S. have sense enough to check it out? Whereas, if the subject does give up vital information that saves lives, wasn't the interrogation technique vindicated? I'm not talking about torture--we all agree that torture is wrong. Some interrogation techniques are harsher than others. Shouldn't we expect a certain degree of harshness in some legitimate interrogation techniques? These are all questions for the experts--the professionals. I wouldn't expect that novice civilians would be able to answer them.

    If sheer torture resulted in the saving of a million U.S. lives I would still condemn the torture, but at the same time I would be thankful that torture was employed. Torture must always be condemned; the U.S. must alway do what it must do under the particular circumstances at hand. Quite a paradox. Selah!

    God bless the United States of America!
    Last edited by aslan; July 2nd, 2008 at 10:14 AM.
    Aslan 11/1/90 - 6/15/10 Stormy 1/22/95 -8/23/10
    “There are not one hundred people in the United States who hate The Catholic Church,
    but there are millions who hate what they wrongly perceive the Catholic Church to be.”
    Bishop Fulton J. Sheen

    “It takes a very long time to become young.” Pablo Picasso

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    You don't torture prisoners. There's nothing murky or confusing about it, contrary to the bullshit being spouted by the administration. Even if it gets confessions, it gets lots of bad info, and turns the world against your cause. But, we also know that it does not get confessions, so it's not even worth doing.

    You can question a prisoner. That can include yelling, verbal humiliation, name calling, mocking their beliefs their cause, their methods (i.e. suicide bombing) etc. I read about one effective interrogation technique for Muslims called "why you are worse than a dog." All of these are actually much more effective than torture.

    We don't need to deprive anyone of sleep, handcuff them in a standing position, deprive them of food, piss on the Koran in front of them, etc.

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    Quote Originally Posted by moo321 View Post
    You don't torture prisoners. There's nothing murky or confusing about it, contrary to the bullshit being spouted by the administration. Even if it gets confessions, it gets lots of bad info, and turns the world against your cause. But, we also know that it does not get confessions, so it's not even worth doing.

    You can question a prisoner. That can include yelling, verbal humiliation, name calling, mocking their beliefs their cause, their methods (i.e. suicide bombing) etc. I read about one effective interrogation technique for Muslims called "why you are worse than a dog." All of these are actually much more effective than torture.

    We don't need to deprive anyone of sleep, handcuff them in a standing position, deprive them of food, piss on the Koran in front of them, etc.
    Interesting...pissing on the Koran is a repugnant idea...some might argue that vebal humiliation, mocking beliefs, yelling...are forms of torture...we do live in an increasingly effeminate culture IMHO...the sleep deprivation thing...isn't that what cops routinely do? and the food deprivation...I'd bet my last dollar that goes on all the time when cops question suspects...handcuffed in standing position...maybe not...but left in interrogation rooms for long periods of time without food or water...maybe handcuffed......I bet that happens all the time....maybe I'm watching too much TV...Lol... but even from reading the newspapers, it seems US police detectives do a lot of these things to try to break down suspects, even to the point they overdo it and cause an innocent person to admit guilt just to get it over with....but there's hardly ever an outcry on police methods in the interrogation room...Is it because we approve of some of these methods?...maybe it's because we have an agenda when it comes to the Bush administration...maybe people are just looking under every rock to find something to pin on him...could be my imagination...but there does seem to be a wave of Bush hatred...lol...and he has a higher poll rating than Congress... I guess Congress is too amorphous a thing to direct hatred against...it's more effective when you have one person to lay it all on....lol...I'm just musing here...don't really know what to make out of all this....I do respect McCain as an expert on torture...if he says it is, I don't doubt it....I always go back to the high adventure scenario...a nuclear warhead is planted in NYC and is ready to detonate within twenty minutes...we've captured a suspect whom we are certain planted the bomb and knows where it is....do we use torture?....ineffective as it may be, it may be our only hope....I still don't agree with torture in principle....but in this case, couldn't it be considered a measure taken in self-defense?...I'm no moral theologian...just trying to apply a standard of common sense...might get misinforrmation,,,then again....
    Aslan 11/1/90 - 6/15/10 Stormy 1/22/95 -8/23/10
    “There are not one hundred people in the United States who hate The Catholic Church,
    but there are millions who hate what they wrongly perceive the Catholic Church to be.”
    Bishop Fulton J. Sheen

    “It takes a very long time to become young.” Pablo Picasso

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    Quote Originally Posted by aslan View Post
    Interesting...pissing on the Koran is a repugnant idea...some might argue that vebal humiliation, mocking beliefs, yelling...are forms of torture...we do live in an increasingly effeminate culture IMHO...the sleep deprivation thing...isn't that what cops routinely do? and the food deprivation...I'd bet my last dollar that goes on all the time when cops question suspects...handcuffed in standing position...maybe not...but left in interrogation rooms for long periods of time without food or water...maybe handcuffed......I bet that happens all the time....maybe I'm watching too much TV...Lol... but even from reading the newspapers, it seems US police detectives do a lot of these things to try to break down suspects, even to the point they overdo it and cause an innocent person to admit guilt just to get it over with....but there's hardly ever an outcry on police methods in the interrogation room...Is it because we approve of some of these methods?...maybe it's because we have an agenda when it comes to the Bush administration...maybe people are just looking under every rock to find something to pin on him...could be my imagination...but there does seem to be a wave of Bush hatred...lol...and he has a higher poll rating than Congress... I guess Congress is too amorphous a thing to direct hatred against...it's more effective when you have one person to lay it all on....lol...I'm just musing here...don't really know what to make out of all this.............
    heck we all went through worse than that in basic training for the service in the 60's . now i think everyone gets a time out break if they feel in anyway offended lol.
    best regards,
    mr fr0g MMOA honorary predator
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    that's my take on it your mileage may vary.
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    Quote Originally Posted by sagefr0g View Post
    heck we all went through worse than that in basic training for the service in the 60's . now i think everyone gets a time out break if they feel in anyway offended lol.
    Time out break!!? Lol I guess we're becoming more humane. I can just see troops in action...(waving a flag to the enemy)..."Hey, you guys...could we just have a little time out, please?"

    I guess that's not fair. We have a great military. But a few candya**es seem to have lowered the bar for basic training.
    Last edited by aslan; July 2nd, 2008 at 02:03 PM.
    Aslan 11/1/90 - 6/15/10 Stormy 1/22/95 -8/23/10
    “There are not one hundred people in the United States who hate The Catholic Church,
    but there are millions who hate what they wrongly perceive the Catholic Church to be.”
    Bishop Fulton J. Sheen

    “It takes a very long time to become young.” Pablo Picasso

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    Quote Originally Posted by aslan View Post
    Interesting...pissing on the Koran is a repugnant idea...some might argue that vebal humiliation, mocking beliefs, yelling...are forms of torture...we do live in an increasingly effeminate culture IMHO...the sleep deprivation thing...isn't that what cops routinely do? and the food deprivation...I'd bet my last dollar that goes on all the time when cops question suspects...handcuffed in standing position...maybe not...but left in interrogation rooms for long periods of time without food or water...maybe handcuffed......I bet that happens all the time....maybe I'm watching too much TV...Lol... but even from reading the newspapers, it seems US police detectives do a lot of these things to try to break down suspects, even to the point they overdo it and cause an innocent person to admit guilt just to get it over with....but there's hardly ever an outcry on police methods in the interrogation room...Is it because we approve of some of these methods?...maybe it's because we have an agenda when it comes to the Bush administration...maybe people are just looking under every rock to find something to pin on him...could be my imagination...but there does seem to be a wave of Bush hatred...lol...and he has a higher poll rating than Congress... I guess Congress is too amorphous a thing to direct hatred against...it's more effective when you have one person to lay it all on....lol...I'm just musing here...don't really know what to make out of all this....I do respect McCain as an expert on torture...if he says it is, I don't doubt it....I always go back to the high adventure scenario...a nuclear warhead is planted in NYC and is ready to detonate within twenty minutes...we've captured a suspect whom we are certain planted the bomb and knows where it is....do we use torture?....ineffective as it may be, it may be our only hope....I still don't agree with torture in principle....but in this case, couldn't it be considered a measure taken in self-defense?...I'm no moral theologian...just trying to apply a standard of common sense...might get misinforrmation,,,then again....
    Well, yes, we do have a problem with overzealous police and their interrogation methods. But, if you're not a dumbass, you will never, ever say a
    word to the police if you are a suspect for anything.

    "I don't have anything to say, and I need to speak to an attorney" usually does the trick.

    As far as the questioning of terrorism suspects goes, I just really don't see the point in waterboarding and the like. Much easier to break someone down by telling him he's a faggot, his beard looks retarded, and America always wins. Maybe show him the video of Saddam being hung. Maybe have some women come in and make fun of him. Just be creative. We don't need to torture these guys.
    Last edited by moo321; July 2nd, 2008 at 03:46 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by moo321 View Post
    Well, yes, we do have a problem with overzealous police and their interrogation methods. But, if you're not a dumbass, you will never, ever say a
    word to the police if you are a suspect for anything.

    "I don't have anything to say, and I need to speak to an attorney" usually does the trick.

    As far as the questioning of terrorism suspects goes, I just really don't see the point in waterboarding and the like. Much easier to break someone down by telling him he's a faggot, his beard looks retarded, and America always wins. Maybe show him the video of Saddam being hung. Maybe have some women come in and make fun of him. Just be creative. We don't need to torture these guys.
    Either Presidential candidate will in all likelihood ban all forms of torture. We are better than that.
    Aslan 11/1/90 - 6/15/10 Stormy 1/22/95 -8/23/10
    “There are not one hundred people in the United States who hate The Catholic Church,
    but there are millions who hate what they wrongly perceive the Catholic Church to be.”
    Bishop Fulton J. Sheen

    “It takes a very long time to become young.” Pablo Picasso

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    Quote Originally Posted by aslan View Post
    Either Presidential candidate will in all likelihood ban all forms of torture. We are better than that.
    Thank God.

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    Biggles! Fetch the cushions.

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    Biggles delivers the goods.
    Aslan 11/1/90 - 6/15/10 Stormy 1/22/95 -8/23/10
    “There are not one hundred people in the United States who hate The Catholic Church,
    but there are millions who hate what they wrongly perceive the Catholic Church to be.”
    Bishop Fulton J. Sheen

    “It takes a very long time to become young.” Pablo Picasso

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    Quote Originally Posted by propagandhi View Post
    Biggles! Fetch the cushions.
    you got that right.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CSe38...eature=related
    about 1:25 in.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brutus View Post
    No! No! Not the comfy chair! Lol
    Aslan 11/1/90 - 6/15/10 Stormy 1/22/95 -8/23/10
    “There are not one hundred people in the United States who hate The Catholic Church,
    but there are millions who hate what they wrongly perceive the Catholic Church to be.”
    Bishop Fulton J. Sheen

    “It takes a very long time to become young.” Pablo Picasso

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    Default Fire with Fire

    I was trained back in the 70s to be a soldier and to my job the way I was trained. War is hell and it's your job to go there and shake hands with the devil himself. Morals and so call rules go out the window just like everything else in war. The people who run the wars don't want to address the issues and never will because if they did there would be no wars. If you are going to cut my head off because I believe in Jesus and want your people to live in peace and freedom make sure you get me before I send you to Allah. blackchipjim

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    Quote Originally Posted by moo321 View Post
    ...
    As far as the questioning of terrorism suspects goes, I just really don't see the point in waterboarding and the like. Much easier to break someone down by telling him he's a faggot, his beard looks retarded, and America always wins. Maybe show him the video of Saddam being hung. Maybe have some women come in and make fun of him. Just be creative. We don't need to torture these guys.
    Those things are what the anti-Americans are calling "torture" too. No matter what we do, they are going to call it torture. Waterboarding is really just psychological torture too because nothing bad is actually happening to you, you just think it is.

    If I were running the torture chamber I would be creative too. I'd make them sleep with pigs. And I'd hire homosexuals to actually do the torture. Have them dress them up like girls and take pictures, then send the pictures back to their home towns. And make little paper doilies out of the Koran. We could have 24 hour TV coverage of the proceedings- C-Span meets Queer Eye! That would be outrageous, just the thing to raise our morale and destroy theirs!

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