Einstein: Jews NOT Chosen People, Bible Childish

[zengrifter]

Belief in God 'childish,' Jews not chosen people: Einstein letter

May 13 08:24 AM US/Eastern

Albert Einstein described belief in God as "childish superstition" and said Jews were not the chosen people, in a letter to be sold in London this week, an auctioneer said Tuesday.

The father of relativity, whose previously known views on religion have been more ambivalent and fuelled much discussion, made the comments in response to a philosopher in 1954.

As a Jew himself, Einstein said he had a great affinity with Jewish people but said they "have no different quality for me than all other people".
"The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honourable, but still primitive legends which are nevertheless pretty childish.

"No interpretation no matter how subtle can (for me) change this," he wrote in the letter written on January 3, 1954 to the philosopher Eric Gutkind, cited by The Guardian newspaper.

MORE- http://www.breitbart.com/article.php...show_article=1

[rukus]

also check out

http://www.sacred-texts.com/aor/einstein/einsci.htm

has articles and letters written by Einstein between 1930 and 1948. very interesting stuff - while i may not agree with all of it (i dont think religion can be de-linked from its sources such as the Bible or the koran) he makes some very good points. he splits religion into two parts basically, implying that one part (the emotions and convictions and morals found in religious practice) is needed for the furthering of scientific study but that the second part (teachings of "epics and myths", the part in which i assume he would place most parts of the Bible) is usually what is in conflict with scientific and objective reasoning.

some quotes to consider:

"It is this mythical, or rather this symbolic, content of the religious traditions which is likely to come into conflict with science. This occurs whenever this religious stock of ideas contains dogmatically fixed statements on subjects which belong in the domain of science. Thus, it is of vital importance for the preservation of true religion that such conflicts be avoided when they arise from subjects which, in fact, are not really essential for the pursuance of the religious aims. "

...

"When we consider the various existing religions as to their essential substance, that is, divested of their myths, they do not seem to me to differ as basically from each other as the proponents of the "relativistic" or conventional theory wish us to believe. And this is by no means surprising. For the moral attitudes of a people that is supported by religion need always aim at preserving and promoting the sanity and vitality of the community and its individuals, since otherwise this community is bound to perish. A people that were to honor falsehood, defamation, fraud, and murder would be unable, indeed, to subsist for very long. "

...


"The interpretation of religion, as here advanced, implies a dependence of science on the religious attitude, a relation which, in our predominantly materialistic age, is only too easily overlooked. While it is true that scientific results are entirely independent from religious or moral considerations, those individuals to whom we owe the great creative achievements of science were all of them imbued with the truly religious conviction that this universe of ours is something perfect and susceptible to the rational striving for knowledge. If this conviction had not been a strongly emotional one and if those searching for knowledge had not been inspired by Spinoza's Amor Dei Intellectualis, they wouid hardly have been capable of that untiring devotion which alone enables man to attain his greatest achievements. "

[zengrifter]

Albert sticks his tongue out at organized medieval
carryover backwater claptrap religion -

[rukus]

Albert sticks his tongue out at organized medieval
carryover backwater claptrap religion -

agreed, he does. what are your thoughts on organized religion? im just curious.

as for me, i was raised with organized religion though with all the troubles all over the world being caused by different groups hiding behind the shield of some organized religion has started to turn me off (hence all the other threads on in this section, particularly those depicting muslim vs judeo-christian religions. i personally have become more interested in religion as an extremely personal matter, something between me and G-d, and not to be forced on others. so i guess i partially agree with good ol' Albert - highly organized religion leads to some crazy/unfortunate incidents and many who claim to be the biggest, mnost dedicated supporters/followers of these religions are not just childish as Einstein terms it, but probably the most immoral of all religious followers. BUT at the same time, i cannot completelyu dismiss religion as it was religion in general that has allowed civilizations to thrive and advance.

[rukus]

was einstein right? are the tales and myths of the bible really just fairy tales?

Just how many animals actually traveled on Noah's Ark?
http://haaretz.com/hasen/spages/983715.html

How did Noah's Ark manage to stay afloat?

Estimates of the number of species on earth are surging into apparently hull-busting millions as biologists find new life almost everywhere they look, from African swamps to Antarctica.

The ever-widening menagerie is a paradox when an expanding human population, pollution and climate change threaten what United Nations' studies say is the worst spate of extinctions since the dinosaurs were wiped out 65 million years ago.
.......

[aslan]

was einstein right? are the tales and myths of the bible really just fairy tales?

Just how many animals actually traveled on Noah's Ark?
http://haaretz.com/hasen/spages/983715.html

How did Noah's Ark manage to stay afloat?

Estimates of the number of species on earth are surging into apparently hull-busting millions as biologists find new life almost everywhere they look, from African swamps to Antarctica.

The ever-widening menagerie is a paradox when an expanding human population, pollution and climate change threaten what United Nations' studies say is the worst spate of extinctions since the dinosaurs were wiped out 65 million years ago.
.......

Well, what if there was a terrible flood and it "seemed" to cover the entire earth. What did people of that time know of the size of the entire earth? Could there have been a flood so large that it seemed to cover the entire earth? Could there have been a flood that killed everything in that area of the earth that was not aboard the ark. I don't know whether this is a fable or rooted in truth--never studied it. I'm leaning toward the possibility that a flood did occur, which wiped out civilization in that particular area of the world. Anyone done any study in this area?

[moo321]

was einstein right? are the tales and myths of the bible really just fairy tales?

Just how many animals actually traveled on Noah's Ark?
http://haaretz.com/hasen/spages/983715.html

How did Noah's Ark manage to stay afloat?

Estimates of the number of species on earth are surging into apparently hull-busting millions as biologists find new life almost everywhere they look, from African swamps to Antarctica.

The ever-widening menagerie is a paradox when an expanding human population, pollution and climate change threaten what United Nations' studies say is the worst spate of extinctions since the dinosaurs were wiped out 65 million years ago.
.......

According to the Creation Museum, there were probably pairs from each family, rather than genus or species. After getting off of the ark, there was micro-evolution, i.e. foxes, wolves, and dogs from one pair that was on the ark.

[moo321]

agreed, he does. what are your thoughts on organized religion? im just curious.

as for me, i was raised with organized religion though with all the troubles all over the world being caused by different groups hiding behind the shield of some organized religion has started to turn me off (hence all the other threads on in this section, particularly those depicting muslim vs judeo-christian religions. i personally have become more interested in religion as an extremely personal matter, something between me and G-d, and not to be forced on others. so i guess i partially agree with good ol' Albert - highly organized religion leads to some crazy/unfortunate incidents and many who claim to be the biggest, mnost dedicated supporters/followers of these religions are not just childish as Einstein terms it, but probably the most immoral of all religious followers. BUT at the same time, i cannot completelyu dismiss religion as it was religion in general that has allowed civilizations to thrive and advance.

Well, I would have to ask: is it the concept of organized religion that you hate, or the corrupt people that so often seem to run organized religions?

[QFITman]

According to the Creation Museum, there were probably pairs from each family, rather than genus or species. After getting off of the ark, there was micro-evolution, i.e. foxes, wolves, and dogs from one pair that was on the ark.

According to the creation museum, Fred Flintstone was a real person.

[zengrifter]

Well, what if there was a terrible flood and it "seemed" to cover the entire earth. What did people of that time know of the size of the entire earth? Could there have been a flood so large that it seemed to cover the entire earth? Could there have been a flood that killed everything in that area of the earth that was not aboard the ark. I don't know whether this is a fable or rooted in truth--never studied it. I'm leaning toward the possibility that a flood did occur, which wiped out civilization in that particular area of the world. Anyone done any study in this area?

Sure, of course there was a flood. Even the Ark has been found, I thought. Such does not validate the Bible, per'se. zg

[zengrifter]

Did Noah save all the plant species too? zg

ENKI BEGATS NOAH (ZIUSUDRA)
based on Zecharia Sitchin's 2002 epic
The LOST BOOK OF ENKI:
Memoirs and Prophecies of an Extraterrestrial God

[moo321]

Did Noah save all the plant species too? zg

ENKI BEGATS NOAH (ZIUSUDRA)
based on Zecharia Sitchin's 2002 epic
The LOST BOOK OF ENKI:
Memoirs and Prophecies of an Extraterrestrial God

If I recall correctly, they argue for "floating forests" that occurred during the flood. The idea is that, if all of a sudden all of the rainforests were uprooted, there would be floating masses of plant matter all over the ocean. Maybe the seeds were on these.

For the record, I'm not defending the young earth creationists. Just relaying what they think.

[rukus]

Well, I would have to ask: is it the concept of organized religion that you hate, or the corrupt people that so often seem to run organized religions?

well your question hits the nail on the head. i mostly dislike the people who take advantage of their positions in whatever organized religion they run or use their organized religion to affect others who would ordinarily be uninvolved. i am not sure how you would have organized religion without some form of human leadership, and unfortunately i think human nature just gets the most of these people. don't get me wrong, there have been some great, innocent, VERY VALUABLE leaders of all the various organized religions who have contributed to this world. but i dont think they are the majority.

additionally, the mere forming of something organized leads various groups within a given religion to fight with each other. i mean in my opinion that is just plain ridiculous. jews fighting jews, christians fighting christians, muslims fighting muslims. all to gain more power, influence, and yes money to feed their miniature sub-organizations. im disgusted with all this infighting and no longer label myself as any one of these subtypes, ie orthodox jew or protestant. people should just just be jewish, or they should just be christian, or they should be muslim. anyway, all this (and maybe my laziness!) has led me to some practicing of a more personal religion, with a personal G-d and a direct connection to him, something between the big guy and myself and something i dont push on others. but thats just me.

[moo321]

well your question hits the nail on the head. i mostly dislike the people who take advantage of their positions in whatever organized religion they run or use their organized religion to affect others who would ordinarily be uninvolved. i am not sure how you would have organized religion without some form of human leadership, and unfortunately i think human nature just gets the most of these people. don't get me wrong, there have been some great, innocent, VERY VALUABLE leaders of all the various organized religions who have contributed to this world. but i dont think they are the majority.

additionally, the mere forming of something organized leads various groups within a given religion to fight with each other. i mean in my opinion that is just plain ridiculous. jews fighting jews, christians fighting christians, muslims fighting muslims. all to gain more power, influence, and yes money to feed their miniature sub-organizations. im disgusted with all this infighting and no longer label myself as any one of these subtypes, ie orthodox jew or protestant. people should just just be jewish, or they should just be christian, or they should be muslim. anyway, all this (and maybe my laziness!) has led me to some practicing of a more personal religion, with a personal G-d and a direct connection to him, something between the big guy and myself and something i dont push on others. but thats just me.

I agree with you that people cause most of the problems with organized religion. I don't think God wants anything like this:

"Not so with you. Instead, whoever wants to become great among you must be your servant, and whoever wants to be first must be slave of all" (Mark 10:43-4)

Christian leaders are SUPPOSED to be servants to everyone else. Certainly we can all see that they fall short, but let's be careful not to throw the baby out with the bathwater, and say Christianity is the problem. I think most other religions have similar prohibitions against misusing religious power for personal gain.

[rukus]

I agree with you that people cause most of the problems with organized religion. I don't think God wants anything like this:

"Not so with you. Instead, whoever wants to become great among you must be your servant, and whoever wants to be first must be slave of all" (Mark 10:43-4)

Christian leaders are SUPPOSED to be servants to everyone else. Certainly we can all see that they fall short, but let's be careful not to throw the baby out with the bathwater, and say Christianity is the problem. I think most other religions have similar prohibitions against misusing religious power for personal gain.

oh i definitely wasnt singling out christianity, sorry if that was not clear. my point was applicable to ALL organized religions.